If a Bass Guitar sounds good "unplugged", then should it sound good amplified?

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by JoeWPgh

An instrument that sounds good accoustically has a reasonable chance to be a good sounding instrument when amplified. Maybe out of the box, or maybe after an electronics upgrade. At the same time, I think it's highly unlikely that one that sounds dreadfull accoustically, will ever sound very good amplified.

Agreed with a caveat...

It can if the sound you're after has little or nothing to do with the sound of the bass itself. Some folks like that sort of thing. I don't.

I understand that many people couldn't care less about the "natural" sound of an EB... that doesn't change the fact that many are built to take advantage of that natural sound.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

So in this case you're just plain wrong. I set up my basses to amplify the unplugged sound. How? By balancing the pickup heights. Yes, you can change the focus by favoring one pickup but that's favoring a node over the general sound. Most folks are unaware of the importance of doing this. So, as I said, my unplugged sound is the same when I go from the unplugged sound to turning the volume up.

If you can't tell the difference between plugged and unplugged, then you are not listening closely enough. That's your answer to anyone who claims there's no tonal difference between fingerboard woods, but it applies just as well here.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Here's an easy way to experience it. Most US folks have drywall. Press the headstock against a drywall wall (bathrooms are good for this) and it will acoustically amplify the sound of your bass. I do this often, it takes electrical amplification out of the loop and allows me to focus on not only what the bass actually sounds like ...

Putting the headstock against drywall increases the effective mass of your instrument, and therefore, its sustain and tone. So, it is a FAR cry from using an amplifier.

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

I know we've had conversations based on you not thinking electric basses are played unplugged, you're on your own with that this time.

Huh? I regularly play my instruments unplugged. My actual argument is that you're not going to make a living playing your solidbody electric bass unplugged. In fact you'll be lucky to earn any money at all that way. That's why they're called electric instruments: the acoustic properties, while possibly useful, aren't the end-all-be-all.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

If you can't tell the difference between plugged and unplugged, then you are not listening closely enough. That's your answer to anyone who claims there's no tonal difference between fingerboard woods, but it applies just as well here.

Okay, I'll defer to your knowledge and opinion of what I've actually experienced with a personal bass you've never played.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Putting the headstock against drywall increases the effective mass of your instrument, and therefore, its sustain and tone. So, it is a FAR cry from using an amplifier.




Huh? I regularly play my instruments unplugged. My actual argument is that you're not going to make a living playing your solidbody electric bass unplugged. In fact you'll be lucky to earn any money at all that way. That's why they're called electric instruments: the acoustic properties, while possibly useful, aren't the end-all-be-all.

So now you're changing your story? Who ever brought up something as silly as making a living playing unplugged? That was your argument?

This won't be any more pointless than the last time. You win.

[JoeWPgh]

It sure is amusing how these discussions always end up in the extremes.

[Brad Johnson]

Agreed.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

So now you're changing your story?

Nope, not one bit.

[Lorenzop]

Well it seems to me in these discussions there is too little focus on what matters: HOW the sound is produced and WHAT part of that sound is going to be converted by the PU.

If we really understand that then we can by all means "go to extremes" and play about changing variables, some which may completely override others (hence some people correctly believe some things "do not matter".


To me it's still unclear, how/what produces a Tone and then how that Tone is received by a PU to produce another "tone" the sum of the original plus the PUs. At least that's what I'm assuming.

As far as I understand we got materials of some sort (woods or synthetic) which interact with a string suspended over it. Now any suspended string plucked will vibrate at certain rate. However the vibration is not clean ("sinus wave?) as the surrounding material absorbs / reflects some energy therefore the vibration of string assumes a much more complex shape, one which will give the final tone quality of the sound. This Tone is shaped through AIR - that's how energy/waves will be transmitted and interact with itself.

Am I correct this far?
If so then this is the "sound" of the bass.

Now we get a PU.

Just HOW and WHAT and how much of this complex wave shape interacts with the PU ??

It is not a microphone which would akso basically reflect the same energy interactions because it picks up AIR vibrations.

A PU if I'm correct will not pick up the sound waves energy through air but instead is directly induced through the magnetic variations. But here is where I'm lost: does the PU magnetic field receive variations because the air around it "distorts" it or is it purely because of a magnetic charge (string) or perhaps someone's electric static finger ???


So if a bass is acoustic at heart (cos its tone is produced through air) well then what happens at the PU?

Also, whereas microphones are essentially better converters of AIR energy because they can pick up more details of wave frequency traveling through air, it still converts that to a Voltage. But it's like a higher frequency /bit rate sample I guess as opposed to a PU which will still convert the SAME original waveform by other means (direct magnetic). or maybe not, as the PU actually doesn't convert the air vibrations at all, but only the vibrating string (seen through te magnetic spectrum?).

So it's not even like another "lower" sample converter, it just converts in a completely different way??

You see why I'm confused - and why we should all understand this?

[nukes_da_bass]

Probably.
Good wood, properly dressed and crowned frets, good setup, good neck joint, well seated high mass bridge, that will make it sound good unplugged.
As long as the pickups and wiring are also decent it should also sound good amplified.
A soundboard is a soundboard. The soundboard on a hollow body acoustic instrument is more dramatic and is going to vibrate more freely. A slab is still a soundboard, however. Vibration is simply more subtle on a solid body slab.

If wood didn't matter we would all be playing Steinberger and Danelectro clones. Why? Because plastic and Masonite are far cheaper as building materials! If big manufacturing had been able to convince guitarists and bassists that wood didn't matter, this change would have occurred 30 years ago.

[chadds]

Then there are those clamp on tuners.......

Might be science fiction but it seems they pick up the exact pitch of the string through the body. Hmmmmm.......

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Nope, not one bit.

Like I said, you win. I can't argue against fiction.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by chadds

Then there are those clamp on tuners.......

Might be science fiction but it seems they pick up the exact pitch of the string through the body. Hmmmmm.......

But they have batteries.

[maturanesa]

If a Bass Guitar sounds good "unplugged", then should it sound good amplified?

Yes. Why an unplugged good sounding bass would sound bad when plugged in?
If the electronics are bad, you can change them...

[3234718]

Victor Bailey talks about the importance a bass's unplugged sound in this vid about his signature Fender.
Go to 3:36
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YRZeKV8aNoY

Also, I didn't know about his signature Fender, and now I desperately want one. I'm a sucker for Koa.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by chadds

Then there are those clamp on tuners.......

Might be science fiction but it seems they pick up the exact pitch of the string through the body. Hmmmmm.......

Mine detect the exact pitch of the string through the headstock. Regardless, remind me: how is tone correlated to pitch?

[preside]

I love these kind of threads ..they let me know whose posts I can ignore in the future. Oh and Brad J when I went to Berklee back in the 70's you were not allowed to practice in your dorm room. I used to sit in the bathroom with my bass against the wall and play all the time , it was a good way to hear myself and my trusty jazz bass sounded just like it was going thru an amp. I play a bass not a set of pickups.

[sbpark]

Who the heck cares what it sounds like unplugged if it's an electric bass?

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by sbpark

Who the heck cares what it sounds like unplugged if it's an electric bass?

Nobody, except possibly the owner or buyer, cares what an electric instrument sounds like unplugged. Not the audience, not your bandmates, not the producer, not the engineer (unless he's insanely OCD). It's why they're called electric instruments.

Sure, the unplugged tone may have use as an indicator (blah, blah, blah), but aside from maybe home rehearsal, you can't take pickups/amplification out of the equation.

[sbpark]

Originally Posted by Fuzzbass

Nobody, except possibly the owner or buyer, cares what an electric instrument sounds like unplugged. Not the audience, not your bandmates, not the producer, not the engineer (unless he's insanely OCD). It's why they're called electric instruments.

Sure, the unplugged tone may have use as an indicator (blah, blah, blah), but aside from maybe home rehearsal, you can't take pickups/amplification out of the equation.

exactly my point. I've been with friends buying guitars and many of them will try it out unplugged and comment on how it sounds. My point is, so what?! Oooh, it has great sustain unplugged! Again, so what?! How does it sound plugged in?!

I guess it's just another one of those little idiosyncratic things that contributes to the juju of what people 'think' causes or creates a great instrument. Its like saying maple sounds different than rosewood on a fretboard. Sure it might, but when you are playing with a band I doubt it matters, or many other little things that so many of us nit-pick about. I will go on record to say though that the impact of all of those little things we fixate over (materials, the way it sounds unplugged, color, nitro or poly, and the list is endless!) has much more of a psychological impact over any scientific or technical difference a lot of these things make. WIth that said it can still make a difference, because if YOU think it makes a difference, then in your mind it does and may inspire you to play more, practice more and become a better player. I guys like Jaco or Joe Strummer who both scored their respective instruments from pawn shops didn't go in and say stuff like, darn, I wish the nut on this thing was brass or things like, well I was really looking for a maple board! They bought them at the time most likely because it was the right price at the right time!