Im getting tired of factory setup complaints

[superdick2112]

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

I think the issue is that an instrument should be set up before being put on the wall for sale.
It would be more like buying a new car and needing a tune up. Most people that drive don't know how to do a full tune up on a car.

Give me a bass with dead strings, bad intonation & a bowed neck, and I can string it, intonate the bridge & set the neck in under 20 minutes.
This is known as "doing your own setups". It is very simple, and is far more like adjusting your mirrors than doing a full tune up. A full tune up would be more akin to replacing the pickups & electronics.
Many players spend years learning how to play their basses, yet never take the 1/2 hour or so that it takes to learn how to do their own setups. This is something I'll never understand.
Yes, basses should come from the factory with a decent setup (and most do), but humidity changes, bumps during shipping and other factors can take a decent factory setup & completely negate it by the time it arrives at the customer's home.
And yes, music retailers should set up any poor playing instruments before they are hung on the wall for sale, but this rarely happens, especially at the large chain stores.

[superdick2112]

Originally Posted by hdracer

Cars do not need tune ups any more. They haven't for more then 20 years.
You change the oil and do a service at 25,000-50,000 miles on most cars and trucks.


Depending on what part of the country you live expecting a music store to keep all of their guitars and basses set up perfectly is crazy. Around here the set up will change every other week.
And who is to say how it should be set up? The way I like it? The way you like it?

Expecting a bass that was boxed up and shipped from the manufacture to a distributor and have it sit in their warehouse for who knows how long and then shipped to you and expecting it to be set up the way you like it is crazy.

When I buy a bass I order the strings I like at the same time.
When I get it I do a full set up on it including setting the nut the way I like it, check all the fret's and dress as needed check ever screw and solder joint. By the time I plug it into my amp it is gig ready and plays the way I want it to.
It's not rocket science.

+1

This guy gets it....

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

Because it shows that they're not just throwing it out the door hastily. There's some actual care put into how they want the player to feel when playing it right out of the box - not just that they slapped it together.

True to a point but we are all different. I like my setup to be as low as possible without buzzing. I have a friend who likes the setup to be much higher. So if the bass has very low action, he doesn't think it was set up very well. I might think that it was. Its a matter of preference. What you like isn't necessarily what I like. I tend to find something I like and then ask the store to set it up the way I like before I buy it. If it can handle a setup that is to my liking, I will buy it. If not, I pass.

[lowphatbass]

I would think that a good enough "store set-up" would come down to being able make all the notes on the bass "speak" somewhat in-tune without buzzing. I think this is a reasonable expectation.

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by lowphatbass

I would think that a good enough "store set-up" would come down to being able make all the notes on the bass "speak" somewhat in-tune without buzzing. I think this is a reasonable expectation.

I agree. You want it to be playable. You can always make adjustments if it is a good quality instrument.

[Paul M]

I don't know what's wrong with my bass. It was in tune when I bought it. Now it's like... not in tune anymore.

[Bassist4Eris]

Factory setups are indeed a joke, IME. But OP has a point: this shouldn't affect your rating of an instrument.

I am strongly of the opinion that only the player can set up his/her own instrument properly. It's all about how hard/soft you play, your personal preferences for feel, etc.

Plus, you can do it for free, in less than an hour, and don't have to leave your bass at a music store for a week.

[mattj1stc]

There are probably two different discussions here. Basses for sale, especially new ones, that are not set up properly and basses for sales, especially new ones,that are defective in some way. I've had 2 of the later experiences - a Ric 4001 C64S (bad switch, bad pot, bad solder joints) and a Fender MIJ 51 P reissue (very sharp edges on frets and a neck that needed to be shimmed). In these 2 examples, I was able to get those defects resolved and ultimately end up with great instruments. That said, I was very disappointed by both the manufacturer quality control and the retailer's attention to detail. New instruments should not be defective. Regarding the former issue, I wouldn't expect to receive a perfectly set up instrument or find one in a typical store - perfect set up is somewhat subjective. Still I have received instruments that were perfect for me right out of the box - Dingwall, Lakland, Fender MIA Franklin. At a minimum, there should be an attempt to get the instruments set up to within manufacturer recommendations/standards. If no attempt at this is made, people will tend to think that there is something wrong with the instrument itself. If the instrument cannot be properly set up, it may be defective. This minimum effort is what should be expected from any manufacturer or retailer. Still, bassists should know enough about their instruments to be able to get them set up to their own satisfaction by themselves.

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by mattj1stc

There are probably two different discussions here. Basses for sale, especially new ones, that are not set up properly and basses for sales, especially new ones,that are defective in some way. I've had 2 of the later experiences - a Ric 4001 C64S (bad switch, bad pot, bad solder joints) and a Fender MIJ 51 P reissue (very sharp edges on frets and a neck that needed to be shimmed). In these 2 examples, I was able to get those defects resolved and ultimately end up with great instruments. That said, I was very disappointed by both the manufacturer quality control and the retailer's attention to detail. New instruments should not be defective. Regarding the former issue, I wouldn't expect to receive a perfectly set up instrument or find one in a typical store - perfect set up is somewhat subjective. Still I have received instruments that were perfect for me right out of the box - Dingwall, Lakland, Fender MIA Franklin. At a minimum, there should be an attempt to get the instruments set up to within manufacturer recommendations/standards. If no attempt at this is made, people will tend to think that there is something wrong with the instrument itself. If the instrument cannot be properly set up, it may be defective. This minimum effort is what should be expected from any manufacturer or retailer. Still, bassists should know enough about their instruments to be able to get them set up to their own satisfaction by themselves.

+1

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by audiomitch

It seems like a lot of folks here don't know how to do a basic setup. I agree with your car analogy. I wouldn't complain to the dealer if the mirrors weren't adjusted specifically for me.

I like badly setup instruments on the used market. Most people think it's a "bad" one, or a big mystery to get a proper setup and end up selling cheap.

Couldn't agree more. I picked up a MID Ric a few years back that some kid had taken to GC and traded it in on something else because it was "junk". I don't know what gauge strings he had on it, but they were HUGE!!! It looked like a damn canoe, they neck was bowed so badly.

I paid a grand for it, took it home, took those god-awful strings off, set the truss rods - the kid had maxed out the treble side completely, set the intonation, polished her up and have been playing it ever since.

I guess it does pay to at least have, at a minimum, a working knowledge of what actually makes a bass work.......

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by Makatak

I know its nice to have a " plug and play " instrument but there are so many preferences people have regarding String Height , relief , pickup height etc , it astounds me how many people give a Bass maybe a 4 star rating instead of 5 because the factory setup wasnt great, *** ?? From where I sit thats like someone not liking a car straight off because the drivers seat was way forward when all it takes is adjustment . Im sure if you`re buying a budget instrument , its gonna have a budget setup ? , saying that ive even picked up an Alembic which made me feel like id run a marathon after playing it for 5 minutes .

The way You put it, I fully understand why you don't get it.

Manufacturers and shops shouldn't pay any attention to the unimportant details, but just send the half-*** finished instruments on their merry way and let the customer worry about it.

If they can.

And if they can't, they're free to choose the place that can. Even if it means spending up to half the price they paid for the instrument, to get it playable.



Thank GOD for places that don't follow Your line of thought.
For example a huge on-line retailer in Germany that shall remain un-named, has sent me two cheapos. A 176€ HB sixer and a ~300€ Epi Explorer.

BOTH basses were very well set up, considering, and fully playable out of the box.

Sure, both needed and recieved additional set-ups, including a slight fret-leveling for the HB, but still, even a total newbie would've been able to play those two.


The same can't be said for plenty of basses on the store walls, with a price tag 3 or 5 times higher. Or with instruments shipped on sealed factory boxes.

If You happily and knowingly accept that level of incompetence, good for You.


Used instruments is a whole 'nother ballgame, but since it's super easy, not to mention a time honored practise, to conceal flaws and defects with an intentionally bad setup, the buyer should still be aware.

IMHO anyway.

DEMAND a decent setup if buying new, and LEARN to do YOUR own.

Regards
Sam

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by T-Bird

Hi.



The way You put it, I fully understand why you don't get it.

Manufacturers and shops shouldn't pay any attention to the unimportant details, but just send the half-*** finished instruments on their merry way and let the customer worry about it.

If they can.

And if they can't, they're free to choose the place that can. Even if it means spending up to half the price they paid for the instrument, to get it playable.



Thank GOD for places that don't follow Your line of thought.
For example a huge on-line retailer in Germany that shall remain un-named, has sent me two cheapos. A 176€ HB sixer and a ~300€ Epi Explorer.

BOTH basses were very well set up, considering, and fully playable out of the box.

Sure, both needed and recieved additional set-ups, including a slight fret-leveling for the HB, but still, even a total newbie would've been able to play those two.


The same can't be said for plenty of basses on the store walls, with a price tag 3 or 5 times higher. Or with instruments shipped on sealed factory boxes.

If You happily and knowingly accept that level of incompetence, good for You.


Used instruments is a whole 'nother ballgame, but since it's super easy, not to mention a time honored practise, to conceal flaws and defects with an intentionally bad setup, the buyer should still be aware.

IMHO anyway.

DEMAND a decent setup if buying new, and LEARN to do YOUR own.

Regards
Sam

+1000

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

What about picking up a brand new Fender off the wall at GC, the day that it was put up, and half of the Pbass pickup not work. Yes, if i am buying a new instrument at a new price, i expect it to be set up, i.e. work properly. Yeah, i could fix it myself, but maybe Fendet should have caught that before shopping it out, and GC should have caught it before putting it out. Most times, they don't even tune the instruments before putting them out

Ahem - P Bass pickups are wired in series - it's highly unlikely that "half" didn't work...


- georgestrings

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Ahem - P Bass pickups are wired in series - it's highly unlikely that "half" didn't work...


- georgestrings

Ahem-The A string was silent, just on the pbass pickup, not the jazz/bridge and it was a defective pickup, not something that happened in shipping

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

What about picking up a brand new Fender off the wall at GC, the day that it was put up, and half of the Pbass pickup not work.

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

Ahem-The A string was silent, just on the pbass pickup, not the jazz/bridge and it was a defective pickup, not something that happened in shipping

What you're claiming here doesn't make sense - 1st, it was "half of the Pbass pickup", now it's "The A string was silent, just on the pbass pickup" - neither of which is something I've ever seen, and I've seen, played, and worked on ALOT of P Basses...


- georgestrings

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

What you're claiming here doesn't make sense - 1st, it was "half of the Pbass pickup", now it's "The A string was silent, just on the pbass pickup" - neither of which is something I've ever seen, and I've seen, played, and worked on ALOT of P Basses...


- georgestrings

The E string was half volume, the A string was dead, the D and G strings were full volume. I was there, you weren't, i don't care what you believe or have experienced.
Why would i lie?

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

The E string was half volume, the A string was dead, the D and G strings were full volume. I was there, you weren't, i don't care what you believe or have experienced.
Why would i lie?

Whatever you say...


- georgestrings

[mjac28]

What happens when you demand a setup and they tell you to get lost? and the bass you have been lusting after is on sale which is ending soon? Big box stores chances are will not do a setup they have to pay someone to do those setups and basses in most shops aren't exactly flying off the shelves like combo meals at Burger King and it's about the bottom line which is one reason they can usually beat the local mom and pop stores with their prices. I also have to ask what happens when you get a bass at a really great price if you can't do a setup should you send it back?

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Whatever you say...


- georgestrings

Call GC in Flint, Mi and ask them about their seafoam green Fender Precision Deluxe with the defective pickup

[T-Bird]

Hi.

Originally Posted by georgestrings

"The A string was silent, just on the pbass pickup" - neither of which is something I've ever seen, and I've seen, played, and worked on ALOT of P Basses...


- georgestrings

OT, but that's actually something that I've encountered a few times over the years.
And I don't have worked on a lot of P-basses.
Played even less, I don't quite like 'em .

Only one genuine Fender split P if my memory serves me correctly, but quite a few cheap copies.

The catch is either to have a PU that's wound straight on the polepieces, which tends to short the winding eventually as the polepieces move, or the more common failure method of the magnet detaching.

The first obviously kills the PU (-half), the second either kills it completely or there's just a whisper.

Edit: I didn't cach the E having some sound, the A none part.
That I haven't encountered with a bass PU, P or otherwise, but on a single coil guitar PU where the magnet had split in two, but was still glued onto the bottom plate and in touch with the poles. The G & D were very weak compared with the rest of the strings.
There's also a remote possibility that the magnetic pole piece material has been crappy, and the magnetization process has failed. That I haven't encountered myself, but some DIY PU makers claim that certain manufacturers have very "colorful" selection they sell .

Regards
Sam