Im getting tired of factory setup complaints

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by eddododo

a bass doesn't have to be set up to my liking to be well-enough set up to be analyzed..

Exactly my point, there is a standard set up, they don't all have to be set up to a specific players preference. So, no, its not crazy to expect a decent set up.

[IngerAlb]

Originally Posted by Makatak

I know its nice to have a " plug and play " instrument but there are so many preferences people have regarding String Height , relief , pickup height etc , it astounds me how many people give a Bass maybe a 4 star rating instead of 5 because the factory setup wasnt great, *** ?? From where I sit thats like someone not liking a car straight off because the drivers seat was way forward when all it takes is adjustment . Im sure if you`re buying a budget instrument , its gonna have a budget setup ? , saying that ive even picked up an Alembic which made me feel like id run a marathon after playing it for 5 minutes .

A car seat pushed forward won't affect the overall performance of the car, but a poor or no setup on a new instrument could permanently affect its performance - or maybe do you like a warped neck?

Plus, instruments are not produced only for experienced players. Even a kid can pull a car seat back and forward, but a beginner won't be able to properly setup an instrument. Maybe in your area the guitar shops have a repair/setup service, but in many other parts of the world such services are not included in the price tag.

Last, but not least: why not having plug & play ready instruments? Do you buy a car just so you'd have something to fiddle with for a couple of weeks, or get it to have an instant transportation vehicle?

One more thing: a setup performed by the manufacturer might not be to your liking, but it's a good indicative on what the producer considers to be an appropriate setup for their product - it's good to know for reference.

My 2 cents, anyway.

[Edward G.]

It's all about presentation. Any salesperson or sales organization that does not present the product to be sold in its best possible light isn't worth squat. It is an insult to both the product AND the customer.

Your imperative as a seller of anything is to make it as easy as possible for the customer to part with his dough. Seems to me that in the world of selling instruments, sharp cosmetics and acceptably playable setups should be par for the course.

But they aren't, and nobody is better off because of this widespread poor practice.

[godofthunder59]

Factory set up is just that, factory set up. Your new baby could be shipped from halfway around the world, wood expands and contracts, things get tossed around. Most places just don't have time to set up all the instruments they have for sale. Once you find one that you think you would like most places will teak it for you before you lay your money down and do a set up upon purchase.

[bassdude51]

Generally speaking, for "low action" bassists, set-up is critical. For "higher action" people, it's not as critical.

It's pretty much a given that basses under $2,000 need some set-up work. I have 2 Fender Custom Shop basses where the nuts are cut too deep.

A Musicman Stingray with the nut cut un-even, over 1/8 inch from the G string to the edge of the fretboard and under 1/8 inch for the E string and unequal spacing on the nut for all 4 strings. Nice depth cut though.

It is very upsetting to see so much work and effort made to produce an very nice looking and well made instrument and then the 2 most critical areas, The Nut and The Frets get half assed attention!

Even a boutique bass is no guarantee of perfect set-up. Read the reviews in bass magazines about them and flaws are found. At least in some of them.

Nothing is perfect..............take our brand new basses to a luthier and shell out $100 or more for fret and nut work.

The basic set-up, all of us bassist should know how to adjust pickups, intonation, string height and truss rod tweaks.

Nothing is perfect!

[NYCbassist]

I believe a Music store should spend a few minutes on every guitar to make them playable. I see many basses at stores that are very close to the way I like them. Then there are others that are way out of Factory Spec. 99 out of 100 people are going to overlook the bass that's not at least close.

If I order from MF, or GC etc... I know I'm going to have to do a set-up. I don't think they even take them out of the Factory box. Do they?

I don't believe that clueless people should be allowed near an allen wrench. When I see posts about broken truss rods and the start to read the true story, It's always the same bull **** story. Strings were still tight on the bass whileadjusting. They didn't "Help" the truss rod by taking the pressure off of it while adjusting it. They turned it the wrong way first. They turned it 3 turns all at once. Then they're blaming Fender or Ric or Warwick for using cheap truss rods.

Yes I encourage people to learn the setup process but most people just don't have the "Touch". Just like all the stripped out drain plugs on oil pans and leaking oil filters due to double gaskets. Most people shouldn't try to work on their own cars.

[TRichardsbass]

Cruz Tools, Carvin, Fender, Sadowsky etc. have all published their "How to Setup" guides and include the factory specs. Jerzy Drozd has an online guide as well. All are about the same. 0.010-0.015 relief, 3/32-4/64 action (where it's measured varies on manufacturer) and pickup height around 3/32. Since I play hard and with a pick, I usually wind up setting my instruments close to Fender or Carvin factory spec.

Intonation is usually close on most instruments, however I find it has to be tweaked everytime a bass comes straight from the factory. Has a lot to do with a number of factors.

I remember a conversation with Carol Kaye where she told me about early on if strings broke they would run to the local shop and get another bass, raise the strings and quick rough intonation and let it fly.

I agree with the OP its subjective.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by James Judson

These guys are each national acts. I had the privilege of asking each of them how often their guitars see a Luthier and all three said "about every 6 months". If a set up was so easy why don't they do it themselves?

Because they're too busy being national acts. They have better things to do with their time. It's a luxury they're in position to enjoy. So why bother.

[grendle]

Back in the day all instruments were really rough out of the box. Almost unplayable. This was long before the big stores, and most music stores had a full time luthier on staff. The mfr shipped the instrument with the full intention that it would be finished and set up to the buyers prefrence when purchased. This was how the top stores got their reputation. The best stores had the top luthiers there and they had the best playing instruments. The finish work was far from a set up and included cutting nut slots, cutting bridge slots, neck shimming / adjustment etc. It was part of buying a guitar /bass and was generally figured in the cost. The result was you bought it and picked it up a few days later perfectly set up for you.

Today, the big stores and the online stores are where people shop due to the low prices. Mfr's do more setup and the instore luthier is gone.
All brand new basses should have a full set up to your prefrence. Period. Nothing is perfect for everyone out of the box and cannot be. However , the instrument should be properly built and free from defects. A sloppy built instrument is not acceptable imo., and the brand should be avoided.

[NYCbassist]

Originally Posted by grendle

Back in the day all instruments were really rough out of the box. Almost unplayable. This was long before the big stores, and most music stores had a full time luthier on staff. The mfr shipped the instrument with the full intention that it would be finished and set up to the buyers prefrence when purchased. This was how the top stores got their reputation. The best stores had the top luthiers there and they had the best playing instruments. The finish work was far from a set up and included cutting nut slots, cutting bridge slots, neck shimming / adjustment etc. It was part of buying a guitar /bass and was generally figured in the cost. The result was you bought it and picked it up a few days later perfectly set up for you.

Today, the big stores and the online stores are where people shop due to the low prices. Mfr's do more setup and the instore luthier is gone.
All brand new basses should have a full set up to your prefrence. Period. Nothing is perfect for everyone out of the box and cannot be. However , the instrument should be properly built and free from defects. A sloppy built instrument is not acceptable imo., and the brand should be avoided.

Very True, My GrandPa was in charge of setting up Violins way back in the day for Orchestras and universities. Every one need a major set up. That's just the way it was. The work kept him in the lap of luxury. Nice Cars, Beautiful Wife, Big house. I wish he was here with me.

[bumperbass]

Originally Posted by bassdude51

I have 2 Fender Custom Shop basses where the nuts are cut too deep.

A Musicman Stingray with the nut cut un-even, over 1/8 inch from the G string to the edge of the fretboard and under 1/8 inch for the E string and unequal spacing on the nut for all 4 strings. Nice depth cut though.

It is very upsetting to see so much work and effort made to produce an very nice looking and well made instrument and then the 2 most critical areas, The Nut and The Frets get half assed attention!

Nothing is perfect!

The only thing I should be setting up on a new MIA Fender bass, or ANY well-respected popular instrument is maybe a small trussrod tweak and string height or maybe pickup height. There is no way I should be expected to file a nut to it's proper height/slot location. Nor should I be expected to pay EXTRA to get a $1100 bass to be playable. That's nuts.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by bumperbass

The only thing I should be setting up on a new MIA Fender bass, or ANY well-respected popular instrument is maybe a small trussrod tweak and string height or maybe pickup height. There is no way I should be expected to file a nut to it's proper height/slot location. Nor should I be expected to pay EXTRA to get a $1100 bass to be playable. That's nuts.

What if you like the nut slots lower or higher?
I set the nut slots real low on my basses. I don't expect any bass to come out of the box set the way I like it.

[Razzpukin]

Originally Posted by hdracer

What if you like the nut slots lower or higher?
I set the nut slots real low on my basses. I don't expect any bass to come out of the box set the way I like it.

An instrument should be expected to be playable, maybe not to you're exact specs, but PLAYABLE. Action should be able to be raised or lowered or of the box. I see many out of the box basses with improperly cut, uneven nuts. That had nothing to do with my preference, it had to do with quality

[One Drop]

Some great points here. I used to think all stores should set up their basses before putting them on the walls, but I understand now that the amount of time it would take would require a full time dedicated luthier, as mentioned by Grendle.

We won't pay the resulting prices this service would add to the final cost these days, so the point is entirely moot.

I bet most mass producers cut the nuts high on purpose so a bad set-up caused by shipping, noobs hammering away, temperature and humidity changes from factory to warehouse to shop, etc., don't cause excessive buzzing, for example.

I do my own setups, but my regular gigging bass gets a yearly visit to a very fine luthier near here. It's worth it, but ultimately the vicious seasonal changes mean I have to at least adjust the truss rod two or three times per annum.

I honestly think we ask for too much these days and make it very difficult for a 'real' service minded shop to make money. By real service I mean a good selection of well functioning instruments, a good luthier and repair shop, and knowledgeable staff.

By 'service' today we often mean unlimited returns, replacement instead of repair, etc. it's unsustainable and we can't complain when it results in unsatisfying shopping experiences.

[bumperbass]

Originally Posted by hdracer

What if you like the nut slots lower or higher?
I set the nut slots real low on my basses. I don't expect any bass to come out of the box set the way I like it.

The nut should be cut so as to be the same height as the height of the next fret above the one you're fingering. PERIOD. That's why 'zero fret' guitars and basses make a lot of sense. If you want it lower than that, you're gonna get buzz. What I'm speaking of is a nut that's so high, that by the time you finger a Bb, it's sharp from having to press the string down into a HOLE. Who on Earth would prefer a high nut? Why would you want the first fret to feel any different than say, the fifth or any other?
'Real low', without buzzing, is probably the correct height.

[tehbassist]

The fact of the matter IMO is that every manufacturer and store is going to be different in their approach to setup of stock instruments.

As a luthier and someone who has worked in music stores, I think that that as was in the past the manufacturer really isn't responsible for a setup, as shipping will almost undoubtedly put the instrument out of spec. However I do believe the manufacturer should put a proper and properly cut bone/corion/brass nut on every instrument, because if it ain't one of those materials it's plastic and isn't worth your time to even cut into spec. But, as many manufactures just throw on a cheep-o plastic pre-slotted nut, to fix the nut and do a setup on every instrument you're looking at an hour or so of work and $60+ some odd bucks depending on the shop.

And God forbid one 20 something kid with a studio in his basement has to pay more for something than it's listed on musician's friend.

So to remain competitive most shops don't really spend a lot of time on setups, and obviously it shows. And I don't fully disagree, but I do believe every guitar on the floor should have a straight or nearly straight neck, and if it isn't it should be set straight free of charge before purchase.

That's, as someone said earlier, the difference between a poorly setup instrument and a defective one. Just about any other part of the instrument can be adjusted to work (Except Gibson bass bridges ) but if the neck won't adjust you're ummm boned.

So to recap, bad nuts are the manufacturer's fault, necks should be able to be set straight before you throw down cash, and don't bitch about other stuff unless you're prepared to shell out a couple bucks for a good setup if you don't have COMPLETE confidence in doing to yourself.

And I mean that. Luthiers are luthiers for a reason, most of us have an extreme passion for building and caring for instruments and I've personally had three or four careers worth of setup experience passed down to me plus my own experiences. So I'm confident in saying I'm capable of a better setup job than a vast majority of the population, and I'd like to think everyone has someone like that available to them if the look hard enough.

[bassdude51]

Originally Posted by Templar

Too true. Nut slot depth is crucial, yet often overlooked. Many players don't know how to check for proper depth, or are unaware of its importance.

+1,000!

If a nut is cut too high, it really hurts fretting the first 2 frets.

Cut too low, the strings could be already fretting out on the 1st fret.

Or, a played open string could "sitar" on the 1st fret.

Or, if cut too low, there can be "string rattle" in the middle of the neck in the opposite direction from the finger to the nut. So that we are not only hearing the note being played but also we're hearing rattle or chimes being played the other way too. Two sources of sound at the same time!

The depth of the nut cut is very critical and has to be near perfect and about .015" to .02" (a business card thickness) higher than the frets themselves.

Basses with a zero fret............that fret is actually bigger and taller than the other frets. There has to be clearance over the top of fret #1 and #2.

It's much easier to cut down a nut slot that's not deep enough than to try to build up a slot that's too deep with super glue! Or worse yet, to cut a brand new nut!

Also, the strings are not suppose to be sitting deep into the nut below the top surface.

[giacomini]

Don't care about factory setup, in fact, I consider the bass "mine" only after I set it up myself to my liking.

How's the manufacturer gonna know how high I like strings or pickups?

[notverygood]

Originally Posted by tehbassist

The fact of the matter IMO is that every manufacturer and store is going to be different in their approach to setup of stock instruments.

As a luthier and someone who has worked in music stores, I think that that as was in the past the manufacturer really isn't responsible for a setup, as shipping will almost undoubtedly put the instrument out of spec. However I do believe the manufacturer should put a proper and properly cut bone/corion/brass nut on every instrument, because if it ain't one of those materials it's plastic and isn't worth your time to even cut into spec. But, as many manufactures just throw on a cheep-o plastic pre-slotted nut, to fix the nut and do a setup on every instrument you're looking at an hour or so of work and $60+ some odd bucks depending on the shop.

And God forbid one 20 something kid with a studio in his basement has to pay more for something than it's listed on musician's friend.

So to remain competitive most shops don't really spend a lot of time on setups, and obviously it shows. And I don't fully disagree, but I do believe every guitar on the floor should have a straight or nearly straight neck, and if it isn't it should be set straight free of charge before purchase.

That's, as someone said earlier, the difference between a poorly setup instrument and a defective one. Just about any other part of the instrument can be adjusted to work (Except Gibson bass bridges ) but if the neck won't adjust you're ummm boned.

So to recap, bad nuts are the manufacturer's fault, necks should be able to be set straight before you throw down cash, and don't bitch about other stuff unless you're prepared to shell out a couple bucks for a good setup if you don't have COMPLETE confidence in doing to yourself.

And I mean that. Luthiers are luthiers for a reason, most of us have an extreme passion for building and caring for instruments and I've personally had three or four careers worth of setup experience passed down to me plus my own experiences. So I'm confident in saying I'm capable of a better setup job than a vast majority of the population, and I'd like to think everyone has someone like that available to them if the look hard enough.

Why would you knowingly pay more than MF?

[armybass]

As far as having all basses in a store set up well.... Having worked in a shop, I can tell you that is not as easy as it sounds. It is easy to have all your instruments set up properly all the time when you have 2 or 3..... Not so much when you have 200 to 300 however.