Im getting tired of factory setup complaints

[brianerwin]

I have been reading the posts here and while I have not read every post in depth, I get the idea.
I picked up mine at GC and when I did, I really liked the look, the shape, the style, the wood and color and the way it sounded. (I was also playing into a pretty big amp but I liked the bass overall)
After getting it home and playing it in my own conditions, I started to notice some buzzing which I really didn't like so I posted here in TB and was given a solution (Adj. truss rod) Did it and buzzing went away.

I did some research before I made my adjustments just to be sure I was on the right track but everything was ok.

I also checked with a tuner, the octives and these were "factory set" and were perfect. I didn't mess with them.

Now I know that if I get buzzing it is ME and not the guitar. I just need to learn where to place my fingers.

Lesson here is as everyone is saying, if you really like what you got, don't complain if about it, just learn and try to make adjustments that you can handle.
There is really no way you are going to find the perfect bass set to your standards in a music store, but you can find something you like and set it up like you want it and end up getting that bass that you like.

[f64]

I started playing in the 60's. On any guitar or bass you bought you had to know how to adjust the neck relief, intonation, string spacing and cut the nut (usually with a hack saw blade). The only thing you went back to the "experts" for was to have the frets leveled or lowered (stoned). Then again by age eight I was expected to know how to bleed radiators, light pilot lights, defrost the freezer and start the lawn mower (often by pouring gas down the carb). By the age of 12 you were in charge of changing the oil, adjusting timing and the choke on the family car. These are things every kid did - and wanted to. As we've dumbed down the mechanical side of society by making everything "easy" it comes as no surprise that this thread even exists. Twenty years from now I think there will be threads complaining about having to tune your instrument.

[sj_bass]

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

Exactly my point, there is a standard set up, they don't all have to be set up to a specific players preference. So, no, its not crazy to expect a decent set up.

Umm... no.

Originally Posted by grendle

Back in the day all instruments were really rough out of the box. Almost unplayable. This was long before the big stores, and most music stores had a full time luthier on staff. The mfr shipped the instrument with the full intention that it would be finished and set up to the buyers prefrence when purchased. This was how the top stores got their reputation. The best stores had the top luthiers there and they had the best playing instruments. The finish work was far from a set up and included cutting nut slots, cutting bridge slots, neck shimming / adjustment etc. It was part of buying a guitar /bass and was generally figured in the cost. The result was you bought it and picked it up a few days later perfectly set up for you.

Today, the big stores and the online stores are where people shop due to the low prices. Mfr's do more setup and the instore luthier is gone.
All brand new basses should have a full set up to your prefrence. Period. Nothing is perfect for everyone out of the box and cannot be. However , the instrument should be properly built and free from defects. A sloppy built instrument is not acceptable imo., and the brand should be avoided.

This is much more accurate. My local guitar shop (World of Strings in Long Beach, CA) has reduced the sales inventory to nearly zero, mainly because of the big box and online sales, although they still carry plenty of high end acoustic guitars (Martin). They are some of the best luthiers around imho and often take in brand new instruments with 'standard set-ups' (oxymoron).

Bottom line is this: build quality is everything; initial setup is nothing.

[WoodyG3]

Originally Posted by f64

...Twenty years from now I think there will be threads complaining about having to tune your instrument.

Yeah. remember when you had to tune by ear because there were no electronic tuners? Almost as bad as having to unlock your car with a key instead of a remote, or even worse, open the garage door by hand instead of having a garage door opener. Yikes! Total stone age stuff, there!

[petrus61]

I look for a few things: Bridge alignment, neck twist/warp, functioning electronics.
As another poster said earlier, bad setups can be used to intentionally hide flaws in defective basses, such as ski jump and neck warping/twisting. It's simply harder to judge until you get the bass home. If it cannot be setup to factory spec without the aid of shimming or additional work, I don't want it. Everyone should learn at least the setup basics, otherwise you'll never know whether you actually have a good instrument in your hands on not.

[brianerwin]

Response....

Peavey AT-200 Auto tune guitar.

Check it out:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Qw1j2CLdwo

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

Because it shows that they're not just throwing it out the door hastily. There's some actual care put into how they want the player to feel when playing it right out of the box - not just that they slapped it together.

Um, to which "player" are you referring? "The player" who likes a lot of relief and high action, or "the player" who likes no relief and lazer low action? "The player" who likes a light gauge, or "the player" who likes a heavy gauge? Round, flat, ground wounds? "The player" as in "you?" Or "the player" as in "me?"

The point being, obviously, the factory can't predict the playing style and set up needs of the end user, and I'm sure this informs them on how much effort to put into set ups.

It's like expecting the car manufacturer to set the seat and mirrors perfectly for your butt and eyes. It's not possible.

I have rarely, if ever, had a bass come out of the box ready to play, perfectly set to my standards. Even those that got some TLC or set up to some artificial "standard" before shipping are still not to my preferences.

And that people try to use this as a legitimate QC criticism and bash the company over? Ridiculous. It's something I wish the administrators and mods would discourage and eliminate from this site altogether.

[NWB]

I generally agree with the OP in that I expect to do a setup when I buy a bass.

OTOH, a very poor setup makes it difficult to compare and evaluate instruments in the store. How do you know if bass X is going to work better for you than bass Y when they're both setup so poorly that you can't discern the tonal differences or playability differences between them?

Or, I think that bass X is just the sound that I'm looking for, but due to poor setup and/or worn strings it sounds more like a wet fart in the store than a proper bass.

I would expect a level of setup effort to at least be able to judge an instrument's qualities.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by NWB

I generally agree with the OP in that I expect to do a setup when I buy a bass.

OTOH, a very poor setup makes it difficult to compare and evaluate instruments in the store. How do you know if bass X is going to work better for you than bass Y when they're both setup so poorly that you can't discern the tonal differences or playability differences between them?

Or, I think that bass X is just the sound that I'm looking for, but due to poor setup and/or worn strings it sounds more like a wet fart in the store than a proper bass.

I would expect a level of setup effort to at least be able to judge an instrument's qualities.

This is a great point. I can't make a good assessment of a bass until it's been set up to my standards. I can make an educated guess about a poorly set up guitar or bass based on 35 years of experience, but I can't be sure until I've tweaked it to my standards and hunkered down over it for a good long time.

And as far as the "set up effort," if the seller won't do it, I will. In fact, I would prefer to do it myself, to at least dial it in a bit closer to my preferences so I can make an informed evaluation. I don't consider it a sign of a lazy seller.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

This is a great point. I can't make a good assessment of a bass until it's been set up to my standards. I can make an educated guess about a poorly set up guitar or bass based on 35 years of experience, but I can't be sure until I've tweaked it to my standards and hunkered down over it for a good long time.

And as far as the "set up effort," if the seller won't do it, I will. In fact, I would prefer to do it myself, to at least dial it in a bit closer to my preferences so I can make an informed evaluation. I don't consider it a sign of a lazy seller.

There's some different extremes though. For instance, if a new bass came out of the factory with the strings a mile high and the truss wayyyyy too loose for most tastes, you have to have some blame on the factory for giving it a setup that could damage the bass in the long run.

[jweber76]

Far be it from me to ever, EVER defend GC... but recently in my local store on a couple of occasions I have witnessed employees grabbing a guitar or bass off the wall jamming on it for a minute and adjusting it a bit! Historically this is not the norm, which is why I noticed it. Maybe some new policy in the store or something?

[Kopfjaeger]

Originally Posted by Razzpukin

I think the issue is that an instrument should be set up before being put on the wall for sale.
It would be more like buying a new car and needing a tune up. Most people that drive don't know how to do a full tune up on a car.

+1. Case in point at the local Sam Ash twice with a brand new just out of the box Epiphone Pro 4 Thunderbird and an active Fender Jazz 5 string.

I could have driven my truck under the strings at the 12 fret on both of them. the bridges were cranked up so damn high. While I realize a set up can and should be customized to the owners playing style and preference, there is no excuse for a dealer to be displaying a bass that has not at least been gone over and made comfortable to play. Just pulling it out of the case and slapping a bit of wax on it before hanging it up for sale is a huge dis service to their customers as well as the instrument manufacturer and the store. Speaks volumes to me about their product knowledge and care.

Sepp

[Steve Dallman]

I've been at Mars and Guitar Centers where nearly EVERY bass had a bowed neck and usually fret sprout. There is no good reason for it, if they really wanted to sell them. The GC in Appleton hired a friend of mine, just to take care of the fret sprout every Fender in the store had. At least they were getting on those problems.

Personally, I don't care. I was a guitar and amp tech for decades. Fret sprout, bowed necks, crackling electronics, etc...not a problem...as long as the truss rod is intact.

[Steve Dallman]

I always found it interesting that at the GC in my previous town had fret sprout problems with every Fender, but it was rare to non-existent with Yamahas, Ibanez', Samick, Epiphone, and many others, even in their low budget lines. But the Fenders, from the cheapest Squier, to the most expensive custom shop or signature models were terrible. And I say that as a Fender fan, owner and authorized tech.

[Buster Brown]

Originally Posted by WoodyG3

Yeah. remember when you had to tune by ear because there were no electronic tuners? Almost as bad as having to unlock your car with a key instead of a remote, or even worse, open the garage door by hand instead of having a garage door opener. Yikes! Total stone age stuff, there!

BIG +1


I remember one of bands back in the 70s. I was the official "tuner". Every show it was "Hey Chuck - give me an "A"......

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

There's some different extremes though. For instance, if a new bass came out of the factory with the strings a mile high and the truss wayyyyy too loose for most tastes, you have to have some blame on the factory for giving it a setup that could damage the bass in the long run.

I own over 120 basses and guitars, I've been collecting, buying, selling, and trading them for 35 years, and the condition you just described is the rarest of the rare in my experience.

But yes, in that extremely rare instance, I would be disappointed in the factory for not trying a little harder. Maybe. If the bass was actually damaged.

[rockinrayduke]

Originally Posted by WoodyG3

Yeah. remember when you had to tune by ear because there were no electronic tuners? Almost as bad as having to unlock your car with a key instead of a remote, or even worse, open the garage door by hand instead of having a garage door opener. Yikes! Total stone age stuff, there!

Guitar player and I talked about tuning by ear the other night. Also remember we didn't have vocal monitors then either.

I can forgive some setup issues since I do my own setups anyway. Before I bought my new American Standard P from GC in Sept I originally took home a Jazz instead. I set it up and it needed a shim. I could have done it myself but I felt like after spending 1K I shouldn't need to do that too. Took it back and got the P-Bass which was perfectly set up. All it needed was an action tweak from the TI's.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

I own over 120 basses and guitars, I've been collecting, buying, selling, and trading them for 35 years, and the condition you just described is the rarest of the rare in my experience.

But yes, in that extremely rare instance, I would be disappointed in the factory for not trying a little harder. Maybe. If the bass was actually damaged.

What if the bass was backbowed too? There's really no excuse for that, but it happens sometimes.

Actually I once owned a Yamaha BB405 that had a baaaad truss. The loosest setting was dead-straight when tuned up. Anything tighter was backbow city, NJ. Never happened with any other Yamaha I owned, so I chalked it up to being an off lemon. However, I always remembered it, and it comes to mind whenever I check out a bass.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

What if the bass was backbowed too? There's really no excuse for that, but it happens sometimes.

If I twist the rod, and the bow disappears, and everything else lines up the way it should after the other aspects of a proper set up have been performed, and the bass plays and sounds good...

I'm not seeing the problem here. Chances are very likely that I was going to have to take a tool to the rod anyway. What's the harm in an extra turn?

Now, if the neck won't conform, that's an issue. But, again, IME, that is about as common as a planetary alignment. If it's more common for you, you have my sincerest sympathies.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

Now, if the neck won't conform, that's an issue. But, again, IME, that is about as common as a planetary alignment. If it's more common for you, you have my sincerest sympathies.

It happened to me twice. The other was with a Carlo Robelli. The neck is warped beyond belief now. It was the first bass I ever had though - my dad got it for me 11 years ago for Christmas when I was 17. My first bass and my first 5-string. Didn't stand the test of time, but I was overjoyed that I not only had something other than my Dad's problematic 1976 Jazz. The Robelli is unplayable now, but I keep it for sentimental value.

What was I talking about? Oh well. Happy holidays everybody.