Investing in Vintage Basses

[nukes_da_bass]

Originally Posted by jasper383

Stocks look like the best bet in the UK over the long haul:

http://monevator.com/uk-historical-asset-class-returns/

Real estate can be a great investment, but it boils down to location, location, location. There are mill towns in New England that have been waiting 100 years for their values to return.

You can rephrase that "any former industrial or railroad town in the Northeast". The only thing that will return value to former industrial or railroad towns is...production

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by GregC

Perhaps you are not aware that the phrase "real return" is another way of saying "adjusted for inflation".

As for the time periods, I added the qualifier "very" after seeing the poster's early 1980s starting point. Even 30 years isn't always a great barometer of historical asset-class returns--for example, bond returns are much higher over the past three decades than they have been historically. Measuring over increasingly longer periods can reduce start and endpoint bias. Go out further and further and the historical returns of gold more consistently track the inflation rate.

Perhaps you are not aware that changing the argument until you win is not the same thing as winning the argument.

If you cherry pick the dates you can make almost any argument sound logical. Also, I was a CFP for ten years before I got my degree in computer science and changed fields, so I know a bit about finance.

I also read Don't Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate and other works by the linguist George Lakoff so I know how to recognize when people are changing the debate to seemingly win the argument.

[Lichtaffen]

Here's a priceless investment: your wife's respect for you.

[jasper383]

This piece has a good chart in it about real estate, specifically home prices. Over the long term, it looks like home values in the US has basically just kept up with inflation.

Adjusted for inflation, home prices in the US are now just back to where they were in 2002. And 1895!

http://www.smartmoney.com/spend/real...e=intromessage

[jasper383]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Here's a priceless investment: your wife's respect for you.

+1

[Kevin aka Kebo]

We sell 300 basses a year and Ive been in the vintage Bass biz for the past 15. 15k is way hi. We have them all the time at 9k. Big bass prices have been flat for the past 3 years. Please see my year in review columns in Premier Guitar magazine, you can get them on line. It has a thourough synopsis based on actuals. As an investment, they havent gone up, they have gone down.. 2006 we got 15k on every one. Today, 8500 to 10500 depending....

[smcd]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Here's a priceless investment: your wife's respect for you.

That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee

[Lublin]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Here's a priceless investment: your wife's respect for you.

Truer words have never been spoken.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by lfmn16

Perhaps you are not aware that changing the argument until you win is not the same thing as winning the argument.

If you cherry pick the dates you can make almost any argument sound logical. Also, I was a CFP for ten years before I got my degree in computer science and changed fields, so I know a bit about finance.

I also read Don't Think of an Elephant!: Know Your Values and Frame the Debate and other works by the linguist George Lakoff so I know how to recognize when people are changing the debate to seemingly win the argument.

I'm not the one who cherrypicked dates. If you think going from the words "long-term returns" to "historical returns" is changing the argument, all I can say is have a nice day.

[levonrocks]

If you have trustworthy children, I think its a great investment. It would be fantastic if you can pass it down to your son or daughter one day. If you keep it in the family and you keep it mint condition it might really be valuable one day. I imagine a mint condition 1955 P bass will be incredibly rare and valuable in 2055, but who knows.

[levonrocks]

Originally Posted by Kevin aka Kebo

We sell 300 basses a year and Ive been in the vintage Bass biz for the past 15. 15k is way hi. We have them all the time at 9k. Big bass prices have been flat for the past 3 years. Please see my year in review columns in Premier Guitar magazine, you can get them on line. It has a thourough synopsis based on actuals. As an investment, they havent gone up, they have gone down.. 2006 we got 15k on every one. Today, 8500 to 10500 depending....

You could get one for 8500 and still have 6500 left to invest in something else. You'll get a lot more pleasure out of the bass than you would out of some stocks and bonds.

[baba]

Bad investment.

Good investment:

40% no load Vanguard bond index fund
60% 4 different no load Vanguard stock index funds
Don't touch them, except to rebalance every year or so. You'll thank me when you retire.

[GregC]

Originally Posted by A-Step-Towards

I would maybe buy a mid 60's P bass, all original for 5k or a 70's P and 70's J , earlier 70's and clean original explains. Then put 10k in your IRA this year.

Seems win win to me and the basses probably will rise a bit, not as much at the extra 5k would but more then a savings account would and you will have fun with them.

Technical note: Don't try to put $10K in your IRA this year, the annual limit is $5K for most. But I like the premise of the post.

[ShowLow]

Clarification--the limit went up for 2013!

http://www.irs.gov/Retirement-Plans/...ibution-Limits

[Lichtaffen]

Originally Posted by smcd

That and a buck will get you a cup of coffee

That's one expensive cup of coffee.

[Jim Carr]

Originally Posted by Lichtaffen

Here's a priceless investment: your wife's respect for you.

+1

Originally Posted by GregC

Technical note: Don't try to put $10K in your IRA this year, the annual limit is $5K for most. But I like the premise of the post.

+1

2013 contribution limit for a Roth IRA is $6,500 per person if you are over 50, $5,500 if under 50—unless doing a rollover. Since you, OP, have not indicated your age, family size, salary, net worth, current savings, debt, or risk tolerance—all the investment advice offered above is likely wrong.

Since you seem unaware of Roth contribution limits, you are likely just starting to save. IMHO, you would would be foolish to buy a '55 P-bass with retirement savings. I have a '55 I bought for $250 in 1973, and while it is a great old instrument, I also have been investing for retirement since 1983. I am now a retired music teacher and spend a lot of time in Hawaii and play bass in several bands.

That is possible because my wife and I have saved and invested diligently. Our investments have been index mutual funds and real estate. Since our musical instruments are valuable, insurance, climate-controlled storage, an alarm system, and maintenance all take their bite. I don't consider them investments, I consider them to be musical instruments—tools for making music. That they have in some cases appreciated a few thousand dollars is basically irrelevant.

Investments are not just a few small assets that appreciate, they are something you can buy enough of to generate a fortune or at least an income stream. These are things like an education, a trade, real estate, commodities, a small business, stocks, bonds, mutual funds, ETFs, even cash in certificates of deposit. One, or even ten vintage basses don't really add up to much of an investment considering the risks. They are just not diversified or durable enough.

Q: Can you imagine what $10K in mutual funds will become if you add $10k a year and make 8% for 10 years? 20 years? 30 Years?

A: $166,455.00 in 2023, $504,229 in 2033, 1,233,459 in 2043.
In case you are worried about inflation, stocks are actually a good bet in inflation—assuming we are not having hyper inflation—in which case nothing, not even gold or bullets will save you.

US Investment Average Annual Real Returns from 1802 to 2012, adjusted for Inflation (210 years of data)

Stocks: 6.6%
Bonds: 3.6%
T-Bills: 2.7%
Gold: 0.7%
Dollar:-1.4%

Source: Jeremy Siegel, http://www.cobank.com/~/media/Files/...rum/Siegel.pdf



In any case, ignore the gloomsters, doomsters, gold bugs, elves, tinfoil-hatted gun nuts, and chicken littles. Listen to your wife. Save for your old selves. No one else can, and time will slip away. You will be old someday if you are lucky! Do you want to be poor, too?

Honestly, you can get the sound, feel, and look of a '55 by looking for a Fender CS single coil, or by having one built. There are a lot of good custom builders who can create a relic '55 that will look, feel and sound great for well under $5k. BTW, have you played a RW P-bass? They blow away 90% of the vintage P-basses I have owned or played and cost ~$800 used.

[lfmn16]

Originally Posted by GregC

I'm not the one who cherrypicked dates. If you think going from the words "long-term returns" to "historical returns" is changing the argument, all I can say is have a nice day.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Sorry, excuses are boring.

[/ARGUMENT]

[jasper383]

Originally Posted by baba

Bad investment.

Good investment:

40% no load Vanguard bond index fund
60% 4 different no load Vanguard stock index funds
Don't touch them, except to rebalance every year or so. You'll thank me when you retire.

+1

There are even funds that will do all of the rebalancing for you.

The Vanguard Life Strategy Conservative Growth Fund is the classic 60/40 stock and bond split, all in one fund. VSCGX

Investing doesn't have to be hard.

[Groover]

If you want to invest in vintage basses.... don't put all your money one bass. At least diversify as trends change all the time and you'll never know what's popular later down the road. It will probably be Frankenbasses as they will be considered folk art or something..

[Groover]

... or buy 150 SX basses at $100 a pop, then sell them at a reasonable $200 5 years down the road and voila'... you've doubled your money