Ken Smith BMT Elite Bass Owners Unite *Read*!!

kraigg007 · #1 07-27-2006, 08:21 PM

If you own or have ever owned a Ken Smith BMT Elite G Bass from 1993-1999, email me your photos. I have contacted Ken and am trying to track down photos and serial numbers of the 100 plus basses that were made during this period (that what Ken states). I know that some are over seas, but it is worth a try.

I have downlowded all the gallary photos on thelowend.net of BMT's but would love to hear what else is out there.

I owne a Quilted Maple 5 and a Cocobolo 6 (very rare). Email kraig.gregory@mchsi.com with the following information:

1) Photos (If no photos please email me the number of strings)
2) Owners Name (Optional)
3) Serial Number (Optional)
4) Year (last 2 digits of serial number)
5) Body woods
6) Location of Bass (State or City is ok, I am not looking for addresses, Optional)
7) Any history or additional information (Optional)

I am trying to track them all down, so if you know someone with a Ken Smith 7 piece body and 7 piece neck bass, have them email me.

kraig.gregory@mchsi.com

Peace,
Kraig

kraigg007 · #2 07-28-2006, 05:45 AM

Yes, what I am attempting to assemble a model registry.

kraigg007

DCOOPER · #3 07-28-2006, 05:50 AM

kraigg007 · #4 07-28-2006, 06:02 AM

I really like the basses, and since there are less than 150 of them out there, I thought it would be a cool project.

It would be too hard to track down all the Fender Jazzes made or even pre-Ernie Ball Stingrays, so I picked a bass that could be done.

I have only seen about 6 of these up for sale in the last 4 years, so people are keeping them. They come up for auction with more rarity than Carl Thompson basses.

Thanks,
Kraig

SLaPiNFuNK · #5 07-28-2006, 11:42 AM

Nicest bases out there IMHO!

Here is mine and my first post here...

I know they are rare...

MINE IS NOT FOR SALE! But here is the info...

1) Photos (If no photos please email me the number of strings)
6 String:

2) Owners Name (Optional)
SLaPiNFuNK

3) Serial Number (Optional)
BMT6FM133196

4) Year (last 2 digits of serial number)
96

5) Body woods
Flame Maple top and back... If my memory is correct, they were all Mahagny Core w/ Maple and Walnut laminate. My neck is 7 piece, Bubanga, Shedua, Mable.

6) Location of Bass (State or City is ok, I am not looking for addresses, Optional)
California

7) Any history or additional information (Optional)
Bass has been used on a few recordings... Got it when I was 16... Loved it so much, had to get a just like it...

but they stopped making the BMT Elites, so I got a BSR elite... I liked when the necks were complete thickness of the body not like now when they put the block of maple to complete the thickness...

I am pretty sure I have the only Ken Smith bass on a Vanilla Ice album... haha! ((when he went hard core))

I use it mainly for Jazz, Funk, Blues, Rock...

By the way these studio pix are like 6 years old...

jokerjkny · #6 07-28-2006, 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLaPiNFuNK

(...)

woah... just woah...

kraigg007 · #7 07-30-2006, 04:05 AM

Here is a photo of my Ken Smith BMT 5 and 6.

kraigg007

kraigg007 · #8 07-30-2006, 04:08 AM

a picture of the back of the basses.

kraigg007 · #9 07-30-2006, 07:53 AM

See why I love um?

KSB - Ken Smith · #10 07-30-2006, 08:00 AM

The first Bass shown has a Bubinga center and then Shedua 'Stringers' mxed with the Maple. That was the first version we made of the 7-piece Neck. The next, also with Bubinga center as with all of our 7-piece Necks had Purpleheart/Amaranth 'Stringers' on the 3/16th sized ones. The last version and still used for our 7-piece Necks is all Bubinga for the center and 'stringers'.

Why did we do it this way? Well the first idea was the Shedua. Shedua and Bubinga are the same family (Guibourtia) just like two variations or Maple or Walnut. Look here if you want some further info on this; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/shedua.html
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/bubinga.html

The difference being the color and density. Bubinga Specific gravity is about .88 (4.8 Lbs. per Bd. Ft.), Shedua is about .80 (4.4 Lbs. per Bd. Ft.) and Maple is about .72 (3.8 Lbs. per Bd. Ft.) as used in Necks aka hardrock maple. The Maple being the softest of the 3 woods but still a very hard wood itself.

As we were using the Shedua we would find boards that were figured during the initial planing. Wh had not seen or bought figured Shedua since 1988, 5 years before the BMT. The supplier of this batch said that there was no figure in the wood and not available figured. Well, they were wrong. Of the 100 board feet we bought from this supplier as a sample, at least half of it turned out to be figured. The supplier had 7,000 board feet in stock and it was very old stock as well because no one was buying or requestng Shedua for many years. In 1988 we stumbled on a small supply of figured Shedua and began using it for Tops. Afetr it was used up and went to buy more, we were told it was rare and they had never had it before or since with that beautiul figure. That was a different supplier than the one we had purchased this 100 feet from that we used in the BMTs. When we called to buy more, and alot more due to the figure we could use for Tops, we were told it's ALL gone. Some builder in Colorado needed a dark hardwood for flooring in a big office building. They blew out the entire load of old stock (7,000 board feet) of Shedua to get out of it.

Then we used some Purpleheart but we found alot of small pin knots in the wood which was not desirable to me for Necks and time consuming finding clear pieces for 'stringers'. The final soloution (which was not as contrasting as the Shedua mix) was to use all Bubings because it IS available, very clear and defect free in long pieces.

Currenty we have some Shedua again, purchased from a 3rd supplier in 1998 just after we stopped offering the BMT. Should we start making the 7-piece necks again with the Shedua mixed with the Bubinga or switch it around and use the Shedua in the center bordered with Bubinga and Maple as a turn-a-round?

State your prefence on this if you would like. I will check back on this Thread from time to time..

In the mean time as requested by the Thread starter, Post your BMTs. When I have some time, I will list the serial # and count how many 4,5 and 6 strings were made in total. As we see pics, we can note the # and stringers to maybe one day see which had which stringers and the period of change.

kraigg007 · #11 07-30-2006, 08:38 AM

Ken,

Thanks for taking time to shed some light on the BMT basses. That was something I would have never noticed. It is like finding a variation on a rare baseball card.

Anyway, here are a couple photos of some rare BMT's in Japan. One is a Ebony 6 and a Koa 6. Both very rare.

Kraigg007

SLaPiNFuNK · #12 07-30-2006, 01:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSB - Ken Smith

The first Bass shown has a Bubinga center and then Shedua 'Stringers' mxed with the Maple. That was the first version we made of the 7-piece Neck. The next, also with Bubinga center as with all of our 7-piece Necks had Purpleheart/Amaranth 'Stringers' on the 3/16th sized ones. The last version and still used for our 7-piece Necks is all Bubinga for the center and 'stringers'.

Why did we do it this way? Well the first idea was the Shedua. Shedua and Bubinga are the same family (Guibourtia) just like two variations or Maple or Walnut. Look here if you want some further info on this; http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/shedua.html
http://www.kensmithbasses.com/woodpages/bubinga.html

The difference being the color and density. Bubinga Specific gravity is about .88 (4.8 Lbs. per Bd. Ft.), Shedua is about .80 (4.4 Lbs. per Bd. Ft.) and Maple is about .72 (3.8 Lbs. per Bd. Ft.) as used in Necks aka hardrock maple. The Maple being the softest of the 3 woods but still a very hard wood itself.

As we were using the Shedua we would find boards that were figured during the initial planing. Wh had not seen or bought figured Shedua since 1988, 5 years before the BMT. The supplier of this batch said that there was no figure in the wood and not available figured. Well, they were wrong. Of the 100 board feet we bought from this supplier as a sample, at least half of it turned out to be figured. The supplier had 7,000 board feet in stock and it was very old stock as well because no one was buying or requestng Shedua for many years. In 1988 we stumbled on a small supply of figured Shedua and began using it for Tops. Afetr it was used up and went to buy more, we were told it was rare and they had never had it before or since with that beautiul figure. That was a different supplier than the one we had purchased this 100 feet from that we used in the BMTs. When we called to buy more, and alot more due to the figure we could use for Tops, we were told it's ALL gone. Some builder in Colorado needed a dark hardwood for flooring in a big office building. They blew out the entire load of old stock (7,000 board feet) of Shedua to get out of it.

Then we used some Purpleheart but we found alot of small pin knots in the wood which was not desirable to me for Necks and time consuming finding clear pieces for 'stringers'. The final soloution (which was not as contrasting as the Shedua mix) was to use all Bubings because it IS available, very clear and defect free in long pieces.

Currenty we have some Shedua again, purchased from a 3rd supplier in 1998 just after we stopped offering the BMT. Should we start making the 7-piece necks again with the Shedua mixed with the Bubinga or switch it around and use the Shedua in the center bordered with Bubinga and Maple as a turn-a-round?

State your prefence on this if you would like. I will check back on this Thread from time to time..

In the mean time as requested by the Thread starter, Post your BMTs. When I have some time, I will list the serial # and count how many 4,5 and 6 strings were made in total. As we see pics, we can note the # and stringers to maybe one day see which had which stringers and the period of change.

Its been 10 years, I totally forgot what the other wood was... I always forgot what the neck was exactly made of... Ill edit the original post and keep it locked in my mind...

Either way, Ever since I got the BMT any other 5 or 6 string just wouldnt do... (hence getting the BSR Frettless)... Would like to get a 5 string one of these days...

Thanks for making such awesome basses!

My serial number is: BMT6FM133196

Its one of the earlier ones then? I remember I waited like 5-6 months for it...

kraigg007 · #13 07-30-2006, 06:49 PM

Thanks for the info on the beautiful ken smith BMT flame maple 6.

There are not a lot out there, so I appreciate your response.

kraigg007

kraigg007 · #14 07-31-2006, 03:08 PM

fretless Bob · #15 07-31-2006, 03:21 PM

cool thread

bump!

Dave

Baryonyx · #16 07-31-2006, 03:37 PM

I much prefer this shape for Ken Smith basses...so much more "me".

Why did they stop making the BMT Elites?

kraigg007 · #17 07-31-2006, 04:03 PM

I heard the reason they stop making them is because it became too expensive, but Ken Smith doesn't have a problem with selling $6000 basses. The market for a $6000+ bass is not a huge one although Fodera seems to be doing quite fine. I also heard that there is not a major difference between 5 and 7 piece neck and bodies.

Maybe Ken will chime in on this one and answer the riddle.

I think it is quite irronic that the 25th Anniversary model looks like a BMT. It is a georgeous bass, but it has a price tag of 6400 -8000 makes it a dream bass for most.

Here are a couple of basses to add to the photo post. The Tiger maple BMT is in Japan and the other claro walnut bass is an anniversary model. Notice the insane walnut top (you get what you pay for).

kraigg007

Baryonyx · #18 07-31-2006, 04:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraigg007

The Tiger maple BMT is in Japan

really? Wow, at first I thought that was a shot from Station-music.de!

KSB - Ken Smith · #19 07-31-2006, 06:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kraigg007

I heard the reason they stop making them is because it became too expensive, but Ken Smith doesn't have a problem with selling $6000 basses. The market for a $6000+ bass is not a huge one although Fodera seems to be doing quite fine. I also heard that there is not a major difference between 5 and 7 piece neck and bodies.

Maybe Ken will chime in on this one and answer the riddle.

I think it is quite irronic that the 25th Anniversary model looks like a BMT. It is a georgeous bass, but it has a price tag of 6400 -8000 makes it a dream bass for most.

Here are a couple of basses to add to the photo post. The Tiger maple BMT is in Japan and the other claro walnut bass is an anniversary model. Notice the insane walnut top (you get what you pay for).

kraigg007

Ok, whats the Riddle then? Is there a specific question here or just a few similar ones in question? I'll give it a shot..

From the BMT model (inspired by Melvin Davis) came a hybrid bewteen the BMT and the BT known as the BSR models (inspired by Al Turner). Recently we made the 25th Anniversary with a similar shape as the BMT but the width of the BSR. This coveres about everything I have done worth keeping up to this point, I think!..lol

Price has never been an issue for us. We charge what we think we need to make for the Bass, what the Bass is worth and try not adding any Sports car or Yacht profit into the Basses thus inflating a can of Coke from $1.00 to $4.00 like you pay at the Hilton Bar. A Coke is a Coke and an Ebony FB or Gold Hardware or High Figured Tops is only worth so much in my book. Can we charge more? Yes, we can. Will we? No, we don't need to. In 1999-2000 we were making 400-500 Basses a year at most and all fully handmade with much of this growth in the Bolt-ons. Soon after, I decided to focus on our upper end Basses and gradually got back down to about 200 Basses a year or so.

Unlike many of the other Bass companies I got into the Lumber Business and Bought the Building we are in. This helps control the cost of our general lumber and helps to control the rent because I am the Landlord! Who saves this way? You do. We pass on this savings of cost of business in our products. Last May, we raised our String prices for the first time in about 10 years with an average increase of less than 1.5% per year for the 10 years we held prices. This is just one example of how we pass savings on to the consumers.

On the Bass models, we make what people request and can make more or less of what any model then becomes in demand. Flexibility is a major factor in a small business with not only your customers as far as product needs go but also in the economics in running a business and staying afloat.

If I had stayed in NY after 1985, my prices would seem way inflated as if each Bass comes with a $600-$1000 a month parking space and a studio apartment in NY for 2-3k a month.

Heck, my 15 year mortgage was less than that monthly and I own a 3 bedroom colonial house (built in 1994) and land to boot.

How could I pass up the fresh air, good food and a brand new house for less that the cost of rent in NY, huh? Also, parking is free unless I go into Philly for a concert or something. I was paying over $300. a month for parking on 14th street in NYC back in 1990. My electric bill today in Pa for my entire house is less than my ConEd Electric bill 15 years ago in NY. NY is just too expensive to do business in and keep the prices real for what you get. In my Non-Humble Opinion that is. I been there and done that so I am 'shooting from the hip'!

Yesterday I was invited to see Tim Smith, Nashville session Bassist perform with Boots Randolf just 75 miles away in Lancaster, Amish country. I stopped off for some great Amish local food and then saw the concert. Most people in there were old enough to be my father. Boots' is 79 now and still can play his butt off. If it were straight Jazz he would still hold his own. He did an acoustic solo with piano, no mics playing Stardust.. Sounded like Coleman Hawkins or Ben Webster.. easily..

So, if I move back to NY, expect the prices to go up 50-100% just so YOU can pay MY rent and City Living Style!.. OR, accept the fact that my prices reflect the savings I get the way I run my business and PASS them on to YOU, the consumer..

I will be glad to answer any questions you have as always as long as we can keep it friendly. Oh and I DON'T love NY. I was born there, went to school there and live & worked there. NOW, I am OUT OF JAIL living in AMERICA enjoying some fresh air and quiet nights.... Just ask those that have visited us out here in Perkasie. The first question you ask is, 'Where's Andy Griffith?, isn't this Mayberry?".. lol (all those over 40, please explain that last one to the younger crowd..). I once asked the Sargent of the Perkasie PD (now he's the Cheif) when was the last time a round was fired in the line of duty in Perkasie. He answered, "Including animals?" No, I replied.. "Oh, about 10 years ago a husband was trying to take is kid in a custody case and someone fired a warning shot!".

In NY, I always had to plan parking, loading & unloading and look over my shoulder constantly for safety. In this town, "I" am the one to watch out for...

kraigg007 · #20 07-31-2006, 06:42 PM

I guess you get what you pay for is a somewhat true statement. I never factored in the cost of doing business. A NYC builder versus a builder that lives in Perkasie, PA or Kingston, NY have different overhead cost. I guess that changes my hole outlook on value. There is also a lot to be said about advertising cost and endorser cost (paid vs unpaid). I think we can all agree that American makes the best basses out there, but when it comes for bang for buck, we have a lot more to consider don't we.

I would like to thank Ken for chiming in on our discussion. Mr. Smith you are always welcome. I want to be clear in saying that every builder has a reason for the price they charge for their instruments. To my knowledge none, that I have talked too, of them have ever seemed conseited or flaunted their millions (if any are millionaires). They all seemed devoted to their craft and all feel they are supplying the best product that they can produce to their end consumer. For the most part they do, and for that I say thank you.

Times have truely changed since we could buy a Fender bass in two flavors (P and J). Now we can buy from so many different custom builders. We can choose woods, shape, bolt on or neck thru and so many other options. It is a great time to be a bassist (unless you are a vintage bass collector that has to have a custom color 1960 stack knob jazz bass (sucks to be your wallet)).

Anyway back to the subject the question was originally about why BMT's stop being made around 1998. I offered my suggestions, based in rumors, but Ken knows for sure. Since they still offer all the BMT options minus the name and maybe the size/shape, you can still have one made. In fact the bass pictured below looks alot like a BMT, but was made in 2002. What a beauty, I am sure it sounds as good or better than the BMT series bass, but the serial number has a BSR number I believe.

Keep the post coming this is getting really interesting.

PS- Ken, I live in Iowa, so I know a little about fresh air. I love to VISIT New York. I go there and eat at Wo Hop (Chinese), shop, and listen to all the live intertainment, but I will take my quality of life any day over the "Race." One day when I make it to PA, I will vist your shop. Continue to enjoy life, thank for building great basses, and war to the people that pay more for a parking spot than the mothly car payment.

Peace,
Kraig