love of Ampeg and other Scroll Basses

[barroso]

Mr. Bruce, your basses & work are really labour of art & love!

[Bruce Johnson]

Zentner;

Where did that overall picture come from? Obviously a big Jess Oliver fan. I got to spend some good time hanging around with Jess way back in 1997, when we were both helping staff the Ampeg booth at the NAMM show. And I talked to him a few times over the years after that. A great, fascinating man, and I wish I had been able to spend more time with him.

Those two odd-looking instruments in the picture are a bass and guitar pair built by Mike Roman sometime after he left Ampeg in 1967. Mike was the guy who invented/developed the Ampeg Devil Basses. You can see the family resemblance. As far as I know Mike continued to build some custom instruments for a few years after Ampeg, but then I don't know what happened to him. He certainly didn't build very many instruments. I currently know of the existence of four, including the two in that picture. Last I knew, those two were owned by a collector in the Phillipines. They both have labels inside, saying they were hand built by Mike Roman.

If anyone else owns a Mike Roman instrument, or knows any more about him, please speak up or contact me. The Devil Basses are still a vague part of the Ampeg story, and we historians would like to get the record sorted out, before all the people involved have passed on.

Thanks, Barroso! Yeah, I'm the keeper of the flame of the Ampeg Scroll Basses. Someone's got to do it, or there'll be nothing left but a few pictures in a few years. I've decided to take them on as a mission for the rest of my days. I have three goals:

1.) Document the technical details and history of these instruments.
2.) Restore and repair enough of the originals, so that some will survive another 50 years.
3.) Build a few hundred of my improved versions to carry on the tradition of the design.

[nouroog]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

Zentner;

Where did that overall picture come from?

The picture comes from Mark Gandenberger's site
http://www.vintage-blue.us/
Mark is making very fine and accurate reproductions of 60's B15 cabs, you probably know him.
He's posting here frequently (vintage blue).

[Bass 45]

I have a legible copy of that article with Mike Roman's basses on my computer somewhere - but I have not been able to find it yet.

[Zentner]

Very cool, Bruce. I just bought an all original, working Powerflex 502, so I was snooping around the net looking for info on it and I came across http://www.vintage-blue.us/, saw the picture and figured you'd be the guy to ask. Thanks for the info!

... And let me know when you have some thumbscrews for my bridge cover on my Ampeg AUB!

[Bass 45]

Originally Posted by Zentner

Very cool, Bruce. I just bought an all original, working Powerflex 502, so I was snooping around the net looking for info on it and I came across http://www.vintage-blue.us/, saw the picture and figured you'd be the guy to ask. Thanks for the info!

... And let me know when you have some thumbscrews for my bridge cover on my Ampeg AUB!

A former bandmate of mine owned a bass like the one in your avatar (actually, I think he had like three of them - in varying designs). I have forgotten who the builder was.?

[Zentner]

Originally Posted by Bass 45

A former bandmate of mine owned a bass like the one in your avatar (actually, I think he had like three of them - in varying designs). I have forgotten who the builder was.?

Carl Thompson. Another Brooklyn musician/builder of fine musical products who decided there were problems with the current manufactured basses. Much like Jess did before he died, Carl is still working out of his Brooklyn shop up to 12 hours every day making basses, and playing a few nights a week even being over 70 years old. That's serious dedication to music, and the tools to make it.

[jumbodbassman]

cool video of an AEB with p pup added ELO.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbCF-bpR2w8

[jumbodbassman]

Bruce any pictures of the AMB for us (me) to look at..

[Bruce Johnson]

Jumbo;

Thanks for pointing out that ELO video. Another Ampeg AEB player that I wasn't aware of. So, some quick Wiki research indicates that he is Mike De Albuquerque, an English bassist who was with ELO for a couple of years.

Does anyone know more about him other than what's on Wiki?


More AMB-2 pictures coming.....

I'm putting almost all of my time into the AMB-2's right now. #003 and #004 have now almost caught up to #001 & #002. It looks like I'm going to be finishing up all four at the same time, around the end of October. I've been deliberately stopping when I see hangups in the process, and taking the time to make better fixtures and gauges. I plan to build these AMB-2's for many years, and I want to get the whole production process efficient and foolproof. No CNC's; just good solid routing fixtures. And a repeatable painting cycle. I may try building them four at a time from now on, since it's working well now. In November, I'll start cutting wood on #005-#008 (all sold). My goal is to steadily turn out four every two months; 24 per year.

I just booked orders for two more this week.

[Aussie Mark]

Bruce, thanks so much for your disassembly walk-through ... it made the task so much easier for me by having a plan to follow.

The RCA connector has quite a bit of tarnish on metal, so unplugging it and giving it a good workout with a wire brush in a Dremel, followed by some contact cleaner has made it come up nice and shiny. I also replaced the output jack with a new Switchcraft jack.

I didn't see anything else untoward while I had the pickguard and wiring harness removed from the bass - by the look of it, this was the first time anyone had removed the pickguard. Everything looked totally untouched under the hood.

End result, it seems that I've fixed the intermittent signal problem. I also spent a bit of time last night experimenting with tailpiece adjustment, in an effort to find the "sweet spot" for the pickup diaphram height that you mention on your website. I think my ears hear some improvement in the pickup tone, but it's ever so slight. Pity that the AEB-1 basses don't sound as good as they look

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

Aussie Mark;

Yes, the problem is most likely in the RCA connector, but it could also be in the output jack.

To take apart an AEB-1:

1.) Loosen the strings at the tuners. You can leave the strings wrapped on the tuner posts.

2.) Use a 3/16" Allen wrench to remove the tailpiece by unscrewing the two bolts. You have to go back and forth between the two bolts, turning each a few turns at a time. Swing the strings and tailpiece aside.

3.) Remove the bridge by lifting it straight up. If it sticks, sometimes you need to turn the two height adjusting screws with an 1/8" Allen wrench to get it loose. The bottoms of the screws are a sliding fit in the holes in the black bakelite block. They aren't threaded in. There should be a washer pressed on to each jacking screw, under the bridge. They often fall off when you lift the bridge off.

4.) Remove the pickguard screws. Gently lift the pickguard up. You'll see that the controls and harness are attached to the pickguard, and there's a gray jacketed wire going down to the RCA jack, which is mounted down to the body. There isn't much cable length to work with. Flip the pickguard back and lay it on a cloth behind the back of the body.

Caution: Ampeg pickguards are fragile and brittle from age! Don't bend, flex, or drop them! They can snap and shatter.

5.) Now you can try to get the RCA jack and plug apart. They are often badly corroded and stuck together. I usually use a small pair of Channel-Lock type pliers to grab the barrel of the plug and turn it and pull them apart.

That's it. The control harness can be removed from the pickguard by first taking off the knobs with a small straight screwdriver. Then remove the nuts from the two pots and the output jack.

(This note is for most AEB-1 owners) On most production AEB-1's, the control harness is enclosed in a round metal can. The lid and the back of the can are held together (from the factory) by a strip of black electrical tape around the outside. Remove the tape and pull off the back of the can to uncover the harness. Then remove the knobs and nuts to release the harness from the pickguard. The lid of the can has three punched holes in it and is held on by the pots and jack. Be careful to note the orientation of the can lid, because it only goes on one way. The three holes aren't an equal triangle.

Mark, your AEB-1 is an early one, so it doesn't have the metal can. The harness is open on the underside. There probably is a sheet metal angle bracket which is captured under the Volume pot and the jack. Its purpose is apparently just to block the visual view of the wiring through the F-hole.

Let us know what you find with the wiring, and I'll talk you through it.

[Bruce Johnson]

Hello Mark;

I'm glad to help you get it back in good playing condition. I usually replace the output jacks on any Ampegs that I do major work on. The jacks wear out over time, and get corroded internally. And it's really irritating to be trying to play a cool bass, and have it crackle and cut out when you bump the cord.

The height adjustment of the tailpiece will make more difference in the tone of the mystery pickup on some AEB-1's than it will on others. I think it depends on how flat and well seated the diaphragm is on the Masonite ring down in the body. If they are seated together well all around the ring, then changing the download from the strings (by changing the height of the tailpiece) won't affect the sound too much. But, if the perimeter of the diaphragm isn't contacting solidly all the way around, due to being distorted, it can make the mystery pickup sound weird with funny overtones or ven buzzing. Adding some download can cause it to seat, cleaning up the tone. But, too much download can also, in some cases, cause the diaphragm to distort and un-seat.

So, I usually start out with the tailpiece height set to make 1/8" gap under the strings where they cross over the edge of the pickguard. Most AEB-1's that I've set up sounded best like that, but I generally try changing the height up and down a bit on each instrument to see what it does. If the tone gets very weird, then I pull it apart and take a closer look at the diaphragm.

I'm sorry that I haven't written much on this thread lately. I'm thrashing away on the AMB-2's and a whole row of Ampeg restorations.

In other news, Bass 45 has acquired two of my early instruments, AEB-2 #021 and AUB-2 #012. Coincidentally, these are the only two that I've built with mahogany bodies. #021 is Phillippine mahogany, and #012 is Honduras mahogany. They were from the time when I was experimenting with body woods and chambering. There's a story behind each one. #021 was owned by the late Howie Epstein of Tom Petty's band.

[Pickersditch]

Who's a lucky boy then?

The AEB is number 895 and sounds great through the B15N.
(Bruce, if you read this I made the bridge cover and screws myself and had them chromed locally )

[Bruce Johnson]

That's great, I'm glad that you made them! If you want to make up some more, I can probably find you ten or so customers. I'm willing to share my drawings and details with you, if you want to make them to help out other Ampeg owners. I've just been too busy to get to them myself.

What material did you use? I was making my replicas from 0.040" brass. There's some variation in the originals. Some were made from 0.063" brass, and some from 0.040" brass. They were also made in two different heights. I made mine the shorter height, which seemed more practical and comfortable.

For the thumbscrews, I turned the heads from brass, and then threaded in a 6-32 steel setscrew to make the threads. The originals were turned in one piece from steel. I'm sure that Ampeg bought them somewhere as some kind of commercial equipment hardware, but I've never been able to find any that match. So, I had to make them.

By the way, the guy that you bought #895 from spent the last two years crying to me that he shouldn't have sold it. He's owned about six different AEB-1's, and he swears that #895 was the best sounding of them all. But I finally made him happy. I built a special replacement coil assembly for the mystery pickup in his AEB-1 #213, and now he loves it. Now it's as good as #895! I had #895 here in my shop for some minor work while he still owned it. It's a beautiful example of a mid-production AEB-1. Enjoy it and take care of it!

[Bruce Johnson]

And yes, I'm making steady progress on the AMB-2's! I wanted to have the first four finished by the end of October, but they still aren't done....But I'm getting close. I'm busy painting the bodies now, and finishing up the fretwork and final shaping on the necks. The pickguards and most of the hardware is done. AMB-2 #001 is mine, and is in the traditional red/black sunburst. The customers for #002-#004 all chose the Scary color scheme. #004 is JumboD's. I've started milling the maple for the necks of the next four, #005-#008.

This fall, I've been very busy with orders for necks and truss rods for other luthiers. NAMM is coming up and the schedule panic is underway. As I mentioned on another thread, I'm also doing a bit of fill-in work for Yamaha. But I'm still putting about half of my time into the AMB-2's and Ampeg restorations.

[Pickersditch]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

That's great, I'm glad that you made them! If you want to make up some more, I can probably find you ten or so customers. I'm willing to share my drawings and details with you, if you want to make them to help out other Ampeg owners. I've just been too busy to get to them myself.

What material did you use? I was making my replicas from 0.040" brass. There's some variation in the originals. Some were made from 0.063" brass, and some from 0.040" brass. They were also made in two different heights. I made mine the shorter height, which seemed more practical and comfortable.

For the thumbscrews, I turned the heads from brass, and then threaded in a 6-32 steel setscrew to make the threads. The originals were turned in one piece from steel. I'm sure that Ampeg bought them somewhere as some kind of commercial equipment hardware, but I've never been able to find any that match. So, I had to make them.

By the way, the guy that you bought #895 from spent the last two years crying to me that he shouldn't have sold it. He's owned about six different AEB-1's, and he swears that #895 was the best sounding of them all. But I finally made him happy. I built a special replacement coil assembly for the mystery pickup in his AEB-1 #213, and now he loves it. Now it's as good as #895! I had #895 here in my shop for some minor work while he still owned it. It's a beautiful example of a mid-production AEB-1. Enjoy it and take care of it!

Thanks Bruce, firstly I'm glad that you were able to help out our mutual friend with #213 and he's at peace now - 2 of them as good as this and still being used is good news!

Yes, I did use brass for both the cover and the set screws having scaled from many photos (using my bass as a datum) that were downloaded from the net.
It wasn't too difficult when I remembered that you Americans were and are still using good old Imperial dimensions instead of this metric stuff we use over here today.
The brass plate I actually used came from a door kick plate at 0.040" and I've got enough left to make one more.
I'll check out raw material prices over the week-end and PM you next week to chat about drawings etc. The only problem I foresee is cost - metal and chroming prices are sky high at the moment so they won't be as cheap as you are quoting on your web site, I'm afraid.
Don't worry - #895 is cherished, used regularly and enjoyed playing live as well as recording occassionally.
I'll be in touch....

[danecho283]

hey all, just finished reading the whole thread today. i fell in love with the f hole bass when i saw Johnny colt of the black crowes photographed with one. there is a pic in the liner notes of southern harmony or shake your moneymaker album and i would stare at it for hours in high school. i got to play one while recording in Shag studios in santa ana, ca. it was for sale but i could not afford it at the time. i went back years later and it had been sold. i am attaching a pic (leaning against my rig at the time), anybody know where this bass is, it was probably sold by cory gash? i wonder if there will ever by a chance for a reunion. thank you all for the info.

[Darren Low]

I love the basses in this thread

[stiles72]

Here's something you don't see everyday... not one but two Devil basses on the bay. No relation to the sellers, just sharing

http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEG-/28103...item416eed4c7f



http://www.ebay.com/itm/AMPEG-DEVIL-...item20cda0f5a8

[Zentner]

There's actually a 3rd for sale here on talkbass too!