love of Ampeg and other Scroll Basses

[DrumsAndBass]

Hello all and Bruce. I'm new to scroll basses.

Bruce,

I grew up in Northridge and did not even know about your shop and basses - I missed out.

I'm trying to get a rough idea of how your basses sound. I only have one recording of Bobby Valentin, who to my knowledge, played one of the Ampeg models. He has very good tone.
While I've already got a solid sound and tone I'm open to other basses with solid tone as well. I play several African influenced styles. As far I can tell, your basses make warm and deep tones. I'm interested in your fretted models. How do you, and others here on TB describe the tone of your basses? Do you have any in the shop that I may try out ?
Thank You.

[Bruce Johnson]

Hello DrumsAndBass;

Welcome to the Scroll Bass club! There's plenty of room; it's a small group.

First, you (or anyone else) are welcome to visit my shop if you are passing through Burbank. I live right here in the building, and I'm here just about 24/7/365. I work both days and nights like a Scroll-headed madman. You can stop in late at night or on the weekends, if that's more convenient. Just call or e-mail me first. I assume that you've seen my web site? My address and phone number are on there, up at the top. I always have some various vintage Ampegs and my new Scroll Basses around that you can try out.

About the sound:
The Ampeg Scroll Basses divide into two groups. First, there's the AMB models, which have a single unusual magnetic pickup in the middle of the body. They make what I call the Rock Ampeg sound. These basses were played by Rock guys like Rick Danko (The Band) and George Biondo (Steppenwolf). The AMB sound is somewhat like a P-bass, but the lows and low-mids are thicker and warmer, and there's a big scoop in the upper mids.

Here's a sound clip of me demonstrating an original Ampeg AMUB-1 (the fretless version):
www.xstrange.com/AMUB-1.mp3

The original Ampegs were the AMB-1 (fretted) and AMUB-1 (fretless), and were made from 1967-1969. They are rare and hard to find today. Only about 500 total were made. I've just started production on an improved replica of these basses, called the AMB-2 and AMUB-2. We've been discussing them recently on this thread. I don't have any sound clips of them yet, but they will be similar in tone to the originals. That's the whole point. That's the AMB Rock Ampeg sound.

The other type of Ampegs are the AEB's. The originals were the AEB-1 (fretted) and AUB-1 (fretless). The infamous Devil Basses are also in this group. These basses have a unique mechanical percussive pickup under the bridge. Ampeg called it the "mystery" pickup. Essentially, the bridge is mounted on top of a square steel diaphragm, and a large magnetic pickup is down under the diaphragm, sensing its movement. It's similar in function to the pickup on the Ampeg Baby Basses.

The sound that AEB makes is very unusual and hard to describe. It has a heavy percussive pulse, a low thump, and a very scooped midrange. It's more suited for Salsa, Blues, and old-school Jazz. It's not really an Upright Bass sound, but it's something like it, when plucked hard. Bobby Valentin plays an original AEB-1. They are popular with Salsa players, and are sometimes heard in older Country music too.

Here's a sound clip of me demonstrating an original Ampeg AEB-1:
www.xstrange.com/AEB-1.mp3

Here's an excellent YouTube video of a Devil Bass being played by Ben Kaufmann of the Yonder Mountain String Band. You can hear that mystery pickup sound very well. Thanks to Jbossolo for pointing it out!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CzfXsEcrJC8

In 2005, I developed a new-generation version of the Scroll Bass called the AEB-2 Series IV, which has a more complex version of the mystery pickup under the bridge. It also has a special magnetic pickup out in the middle of the body, so it could do either the AMB or the AEB type of sound. That was the "Super Scroll Bass". A couple of the guys on this thread have them. I stopped building the Series IV models in 2011, and no more are available.

Here's a sound clip of a AUB-2 (fretless) Series IV Scroll Bass:
www.xstrange.com/AUB-2.mp3

I'm continuing to experiment with and develop the percussive AEB-style pickups. In 2013, I'll be coming out with a new version of the AEB-2/AUB-2 called the Series V. It will have a new configuration of the percussive pickup, which will (hopefully) be even better than the pickup in the Series IV models.

That's the quick summary!

[MAJOR METAL]

Beautiful work as always Bruce. Is the finish a bit daker or less transparent than the shade you were using ash bodys?

[jumbodbassman]

on the ash body he used to stain the wood black and then sand down to raw wood making the grain almost jump out. new bodywood has very little grain and none of the bruce imagination added.

[Bruce Johnson]

Originally Posted by MAJOR METAL

Beautiful work as always Bruce. Is the finish a bit daker or less transparent than the shade you were using ash bodys?

Thanks, Major! I assume you're asking about the finish on the AMB-2's?

Yes, the red is somewhat darker than I have been using on my earlier AEB-2's. The mix is based on AutoAir's Transparent Cherry Red, rather than their Transparent Flame Red. It's darker and a little more purpleish, but it's still fairly transparent. The AMB-2 bodies are poplar, which has a more subtle grain than the western ash I had been using. With the ash, I was filling the grain with black epoxy, which made it even more dramatic. That wouldn't work very well with the poplar. You can see the poplar's grain through the cherry red, but not from 20 feet away.

Yes, I could do one in an emerald green/black sunburst for you. (I'm guessing that's what you're thinking)

[MAJOR METAL]

Originally Posted by Bruce Johnson

Yes, I could do one in an emerald green/black sunburst for you. (I'm guessing that's what you're thinking)

The Blueburst you did was hot!

[Bass 45]

I want a green one.

It would be great for my Irish band

[Giorgetto]

FYI:Two live in the studio videos from 1970, a '67 AMB-1 through an Ampeg amp. Sorry I don't have the link but you can find them on YouTube

YouTube- Steppenwolf Screaming Night Hog (GTK).
YouTube- Steppenwolf Snowblind Friend (GTK).
Also, You Tube Steppenwolf Midnight Special.

Hope that helps,

Giorgetto

[jumbodbassman]

Originally Posted by Giorgetto

FYI:Two live in the studio videos from 1970, a '67 AMB-1 through an Ampeg amp. Sorry I don't have the link but you can find them on YouTube

YouTube- Steppenwolf Screaming Night Hog (GTK).
YouTube- Seppenwolf Snowblind Friend (GTK).

These are live in the studio recordings.

Hope that helps,

Giorgetto

IIRC using an ampeg SBT. sounds great. I picked one up recently..

[Bruce Johnson]

Originally Posted by jumbodbassman

IIRC using an ampeg SBT. sounds great. I picked one up recently.. you are the he aren't you??

Shhhh....Giorgetto likes to stay in the shadows!

[MAJOR METAL]

Originally Posted by Bass 45

I want a green one.

It would be great for my Irish band

+1 it would be great for my reputation.

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Picked up a third scroll bass- an AUB this time. Purchased from the original owner, who bought it new in '68 and put it away a few years later. It's in pretty nice shape, though the pickup is dead. It's got the old-style plywood body, but the newer style neck (with no hook in the volute area) and the bridge has the height screw holes drilled for both styles of bass (AEB and AMB).

Sorry for the so-so photos, and for the pink wall (it will be painted soon).

[Bruce Johnson]

Hey Andy;

That looks like a beauty, one of the very last AUB-1's.

About the pickup, flip back to page 15 of this thread, my post #294. That shows the replacement mystery pickup coil assembly that I made for AEB-1 #213. All the specs are there in that post. It's not real hard to make. Mine's an improved version, built into an aluminum tray for better shielding. But you could also make up a master and a silicone mold, and cast the whole unit in epoxy, like Ampeg did.

The key thing is to connect up the coils as a humbucking pair; alternate winding and alternate magnets. I can send you some bobbins or wound coils if you don't want to start from scratch.

(Yes, I got your e-mail, but I'm answering here to spread the knowledge to other Ampeg owners)

The Ampegs look a little spooky in front of that pink wall.......

[Andy FitzGibbon]

Thanks, Bruce.

One thing I've noticed about the mystery pickup basses is that they just sound better through some amps than others. With certain amps, no amount of tweaking will make them sound good. Mine sounds really good through my solid state Ampeg MICRO-VR stack- something in the circuitry seems to remove a lot of the annoying "ringiness" of the mystery pickup.

[jumbodbassman]

micro vr is very old school sounding. both my mystery pups sound ok in old tube amps. and no horns in the cabs for sure.

[nouroog]

Originally Posted by Bass 45

My current team photo

Rich
are you parting with a piece from your collection?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ampeg-AMUB-1...10985091957%26

[Bass 45]

Originally Posted by nouroog

Rich
are you parting with a piece from your collection?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Ampeg-AMUB-1...10985091957%26

Yes - that's me

I also have an AEB-1 listed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230904707690...84.m1555.l2649

I have recently purchased two of the Bruce Johnson Ampeg's (photos coming soon), so I must part with a couple of the older guys.

[nouroog]

Originally Posted by Bass 45

Yes - that's me

I also have an AEB-1 listed:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230904707690...84.m1555.l2649

I have recently purchased two of the Bruce Johnson Ampeg's (photos coming soon), so I must part with a couple of the older guys.

I hope they find new owners that will give them all the love and care they deserve. It seems to me you placed the prices really fairly.
Looking forward to seeing the pictures of Bruce's basses you acquired! Is one of them a new AMB-2?

[Bruce Johnson]

No, Bass 45 managed to acquire two of my early Scroll Basses, #012 and #021, from two different sellers. These two go back to 1998-1999. Those are the only two Scroll Basses I've built with mahogany bodies. They were done as experiments, because their original ash bodies got screwed up with bad paint jobs (a story in itself). At that time, I was playing around with using different woods for the bodies. Three others got maple bodies, and I also tried using different configurations of chambering in the ash bodies.

I fitted out #012 with a Honduras mahogany body, kind of a medium weight. It was lighter than the ash, but not by much. I gave it a simple clear polyurethane finish, leaving it the natural brown color. The mahogany body gave #012 a nice rich high end, as compared to its sister instruments with unchambered ash bodies. But, it lost a noticeable amount of bottom end. The ones with ash bodies had a better punch down low. I kept #012 for myself for a while, and played a bunch of gigs with it. It was a little rough looking, but it was a nice comfortable gig bass. I sent it out as a loaner instrument a few times, and then it finally got sold for good around 2001.

Meanwhile, #021 got a Phillipine Mahogany body. It was very soft and much lighter weight than the Honduras mahogany on #012. It also got a simple clear finish. Its tone was like #012, but more so. A very warm high end, and a big loss of bottom end as compared to the ash-bodied instruments. The body was also light enough that it made it somewhat neck heavy. It was a nice bass in some ways, but it was obviously a one-off. I offered it to Ampeg, but they didn't want it. It sat around here for a while, and I finally put it for sale on consignment in LA Bass Exchange (a cool place that closed down many years ago). Amazingly, a few days later, Howie Epstein (of Tom Petty & The Heartbreakers) walked in there, tried out #021, and bought it on the spot. I never met him, but the guys in the store told me that he used to come in there regularly, poking around and trying out basses. I heard that he really liked #021, and did some recordings with it in his home studio. After he passed on, it was sold by his estate.

That's the story of Bass 45's new pair of Scroll Basses. A rare pair, reunited.

If you are wondering about the body woods, after experimenting with those mahogany bodies, and three basses fitted with maple bodies, I still liked the bottom end that I was getting from the ash bodies best. From there, I started working with adding internal chambering in the ash bodies. I found that I could use the chambering to get the high end as rich as it was with the mahogany bodies, but without losing the strong bottom end of the ash. It took several tries to get the shape and location of the chambering worked out. I used the chambered ash bodies for about ten years, instruments #025 through #075. When I recently switched over to using poplar for the bodies of my SSB's and AMB-2's, I've found that they don't need the chambering. The poplar is a little softer than the ash. It gets a combination of the rich high end and the deep low end that is pretty close to what I was getting from the chambered ash.

[jumbodbassman]

we are a dedicated small little group. Can't wait to compare my new AMB with the older instruments. Speaking of which we need some pictures especially me !!!!!