The Low End... Have you heard?

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by RJMiller

Of course you don't have to buy from The Low End. I have bought basses and gear from Brian and sold basses and gear on consignment through The Low End and have found him to be more than fair and have had no problems with any of the transactions.

RJM

To me as I understand the stories, this just seems to me like a "true accident". You know where situations just come together to create unexpected problems.

Personally I think that 48 hours is hardly enough time to look for shipping damage let alone decide of you like the bass. Brian might as well say, you get to check the box for shipping damage and if there is some you can send it back otherwise, that bass is YOURS!

But the other side of keeping the bass forever isn't very fair either. If you want a 40 day trial go rent a room by the store and go play it every day!

My personal view is that Brian seems like a nice fair guy, and his store really has some nifty insruments. But before I'd say "I'll keep this" and lay out the kind of bread he gets for that nifty stuff, I'd be doing a road trip to hold it in my hot little hands!

So what's the deal? Like I said, weird situation. Guy decided to buy bass. But Brian has bass sitting around and doesn't ship it out pronto. Now that throws buyer schedule off because he's due to tour. (let's ignore the argument of whether there really was a tour...that's easily proved) Now this makes inspection of the instrument delayed. So by the time the buyer is complaining Brian thinks he's being treated unfairly (which obviously he is even if it wasn't on purpose). Then hilarity ensues.

Point is stuff happens in life and you can't get in too big a tizzy over it. This whole things reminds me of the time I was in a parking lot and me and the guy across the way checked for cars then backed up at exactly the same time into each other. Whose "fault" was it? Just one of those things. Just shrug and hope there's no next time.

[diglo]

Looks like all other High End bass shops follow the same rule of thumb on returns 24-72 hours, some charge as much as 20% restocking fee...... so I take it those that have a problem with the LowEnd return policy won't be buying from other shops either. I know many times when customers have ask to check the bass out a day or two longer Brian has never had an issue with it.

On the other hand, if it was your instrument on consignment and someone purchased it are you willing to let that person try the instrument out for 10-20 days prior to you getting payment back for it. Also in the TB classifieds, does anyone allow a 10-20 day trial period?

[diglo]

Brian received the Alembic today. I don't know what the buyer was seeing wrong with it, but that bass is in mint shape for a 76 model. No crazy neck indents.

[dmusic148]

If you're gonna keep talking about it, we're gonna need pics.

[wfmandmusic]

The following is part of an email chain. I'm just picky about the backs of my necks. Yea the nick in the neck is not that horrible, but the crack sure is.



From: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
To: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 12:16 PM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic

no, you would have to really try and feel for anything

Thanks,
Brian Barrett
The LowEnd
http://www.thelowend.net/
http://www.lowendbassshop.com/
From: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
To: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 10:05 AM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic

Do you think you would notice them with your thumb as you were playing up and down the neck?

From: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
To: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic

very light impression marks on the neck, not something really noticable and not dents or finish chips, etc.

1 3/4 nut
2 8/64 24frett
scales say 11 lbs

Thanks,
Brian Barrett
The LowEnd
http://www.thelowend.net/
http://www.lowendbassshop.com/
From: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
To: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic

okay thanks for the price quote and it's not bad.
I'm very interested but I have to have some more information.
Do you have the build sheet or any information with the specs from Alembic?
What type of woods were used?
I need to know the scale of this bass?
Nut width?
Weight?
General condition of the bass?
Please make absolute sure there are no dents, dimples, or scaring of any kind on the back of the neck. I have to have a clean back of neck.
Sorry for all of the questions but it's hard a bass sight unseen.
Thank you for your time,
Ken

From: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
To: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic


The LowEnd
http://www.thelowend.net/
http://www.lowendbassshop.com/
From: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
To: "LowEndMffm@yahoo.com" <LowEndMffm@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 2:13 PM
Subject: 76 Alembic

[BuffaloBob4343]

Originally Posted by Kmonk

I have never done business with Brian but since so many TB members are supporting him I have to believe that he is reputable. Having said that, I can understand both sides of the story. I checked his website in in my opinion his prices are higher than comparable sellers. I think that 39 days is much too long to decide whether or not you like an instrument but 48 hours is way too short. For that reason, I wouldn't even consider buying a bass or anything else from Low End. I buy and sell as a side business and give everyone 7 days to return what they purchased. In my opinion, 15 days should be the minimum and 30 days should be the maximum for returns. I can buy a used instrument from almost every online retailer, get a 30 return period and they will also pay shipping. Unless you do this it is very hard to be competitive.

First of all, what difference does it make whether you think his prices are higher than comparable sellers? This is completely irrelevant to the circumstances in issue. The buyer agreed on the price.

Secondly, Brian is not Guitar Center or some large retailer that has the ability to write off damage done by musicians who want to buy an expensive bass and play it for a month (or in this case, even longer) and then return it for a full refund. Moreover, the fact that YOU think his trial period is too short is again irrelevant. The buyer knew what it was, or at least should have known.

Finally, who cares that YOU wouldn't do business with him on his terms? Once again, completely irrelevant to the situation. The buyer DID agree to do business with him on his terms, and completely abused them and Brian. That is all that is relevant here.

[wvbass]

This is a weird thread. I would consider those pictures tobe "excellent condition" for a 37 year old instrument. But, I would expect to have seen pictures of any blemishes before I purchased. But, if I wanted pictures, I should have asked for them. And so on...

[diglo]

Pics.

http://www.thelowend.net/gallery/viewtopic.php?t=6147

[tightbidness]

Originally Posted by wfmandmusic

From: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
To: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2012 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic

very light impression marks on the neck, not something really noticable and not dents or finish chips, etc.

1 3/4 nut
2 8/64 24frett
scales say 11 lbs

Thanks,
Brian Barrett
The LowEnd
http://www.thelowend.net/
http://www.lowendbassshop.com/
From: Ken <kenletherer@yahoo.com>
To: brian barrett <lowendmffm@yahoo.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 9, 2012 4:46 PM
Subject: Re: 76 Alembic

okay thanks for the price quote and it's not bad.
I'm very interested but I have to have some more information.
Do you have the build sheet or any information with the specs from Alembic?
What type of woods were used?
I need to know the scale of this bass?
Nut width?
Weight?
General condition of the bass?
Please make absolute sure there are no dents, dimples, or scaring of any kind on the back of the neck. I have to have a clean back of neck.
Sorry for all of the questions but it's hard a bass sight unseen.
Thank you for your time,
Ken

Did Brian respond to the rest of your questions about general condition, specs, etc.?

Above it is stated, "not dents or finish chips, etc."

But on the LowEnd site "one pin head size chip on the treb side of the neck" (posted today).

[wvbass]

Originally Posted by diglo

Pics.

http://www.thelowend.net/gallery/viewtopic.php?t=6147

Are these the same pics from the original sale?

[wfmandmusic]

No not the original pics. The new discription is much better. Hey man, you pay 4k for your dream bass, get all excited when you finally get it, see a nick on the neck that you more than once asked about, try to just be okay with it, then you decide to give it a nice cleaning and find a 3 inch crack in the wood on the back you new nothing about. I think most people would be pissed off and want there money back! Enough said!

[cybersnyder]

The ding on the neck would upset me also especially since you explicitly asked about any being there. Impression marks seems like a non-description. Either there are dings or there are not.

[diglo]

We can all argue description and one person's idea of condition verse another's. The issue isn't condition or even if someone just isn't comfortable on an instrument or doesn't like the way it sounds. If you felt you got something not as described, call and request a refund and your shipping fees returned....

The problem is 40 days with out ever contacted the LowEnd. There is not one person in the classified section selling a bass that would agree with letting a buyer take 40 days to decide to keep it or not.

[Immigrant]

The buyer should have returned it sooner. And the seller should've disclosed info better.

I wouldn't buy a used car for 4K without test driving it, yet basses get bought and sold all the time that way. I've done it myself. The difference being the bass I bought was a new custom by a small batch builder. I went into it thinking it was a big risk but I never even considered how to go about returning it before I got it. I was keeping it no matter what.

Im no English major, but if I had noticed severe grammatical errors on his website I would have bought somewhere else. If there were similar errors in email correspondence, I would've bailed on the deal. I have trust issues, and in this day and age of spellcheck on everything from computers to phones, if someone misspells words or can't construct a sentence or two in a row, no deal.

The guy that built my bass is a rocket scientist. No kidding. Bass building is a hobby.

I'm glad this issue is resolved.

[cjazjef]

Originally Posted by wvbass

Are these the same pics from the original sale?

nope..looks like most of the pics were added on Monday to show the cracks, dents etc.

[cjazjef]

I will also say I have dealt with Brian on many occasions and have never had any issues with quality, communication or anything else. This was obviously a misunderstanding of expectations of condition of a very old bass that has been played over the years that got way out of hand. I am glad to see it is finally resolved and everyone can move on.

[Low Class]

Originally Posted by bassbenj

Personally I think that 48 hours is hardly enough time to look for shipping damage let alone decide of you like the bass. Brian might as well say, you get to check the box for shipping damage and if there is some you can send it back otherwise, that bass is YOURS!

Shipping damage is pretty obviuos as soon as you take it out of the box. Then another hour(maybe 2) to put on your choice of strings and a quick setup. Most people can tell within a few minutes of playing whether or not they like a bass. 48 hours is ample time.

[RS]

Originally Posted by diglo

Pics.

http://www.thelowend.net/gallery/viewtopic.php?t=6147

I'd call that EX or VG++. It is almost a 40 year old bass. As long as my thumb wasn't touching the finish chip in the neck I'd be happy with it. It is a used, vintage bass - period. Some peoples' expectations for buying old, used basses are way too high.

[cybersnyder]

Had there been no delay in shipping, had the buyer not explicitly asked about any dings on the neck I'd be 100% for the seller. But it seems that there were mitigating details left out of the post that called the buyer a fraud and a thief. As a business you have to deal with contract disputes from time to time and probably should take time work it out instead of publicly slamming someone personally.

[burk48237]

Originally Posted by ;13941672

I will also say I have dealt with Brian on many occasions and have never had any issues with quality, communication or anything else. This was obviously a misunderstanding of expectations of condition of a very old bass that has been played over the years that got way out of hand. I am glad to see it is finally resolved and everyone can move on.

I think this goes to buyer expectations. I sold a ten year old Warwick NT Thumb six stringer on Ebay once which I described in very good condition. The buyer disagreed because it had a few string marks on the pick-up covers which were visible within about three feet.

The buyers expectations were absurd on a 40 year old bass. Excellent or very good condition on a 40 year old bass is a far different standard than excellent condition on three year old bass. And I'd challenge the buyer to find any close to forty year old instrument that has actually been gigged that would be in any better condition. If Brian would have called in NOS or a "closet classic" the buyer might have had a gripe.

The only thing I can fault Brian on is not describing the repaired crack by the control plate even if they are common on early Alembics. OTOH, if I'm the buyer even if I can't return it right away, I'm on the phone the day I get it planning the return. To wait 40 days before any contact is just inexcusable