Luthier Ethics question

[JAUQO III-X]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

I show them the trick (trial and error, then reuse the old string as a guide the next time) and it's a true " A ha!" moment.

Hey Tom I PM'ed you about two months ago. Did you get it?

[Flyingfrets]

Originally Posted by SBassman

No doubt the guy is hosing you.

No, he's not.

Originally Posted by SBassman

I'm not understanding why the broken string leads to a whole new set of strings and setup.

It doesn't. The new nut that was installed a week after the initial set up does.

Originally Posted by SBassman

You just had new strings and a setup. Why can't he replace the one string and move on?

Yes, he should replace the broken string, but the new nut still still mandates another set up. Doing it a second time could've been avoided if the nut were installed prior to the first one.

Originally Posted by SBassman

This guy is trying to turn a small job into a larger one - at your expense. If it was me, I'd get the bass out of there immediately.
I'd also make sure that the TBer who recommended him knew about all this.

Again, no he's not. Why does the OP deciding to replace a nut after a set up translate into taking a dump on the tech's reputation?

A thought or two before we pull the trigger (letting the tech know you're contemplating replacing the nut when you drop it off for a set up would've been the tech's cue to advise doing both jobs together, or having all the information before advising someone to badmouth the tech) would avoid a lot of needless ill will.

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by Flyingfrets

... Again, no he's not.

Yes he is.

The quote for a new nut and some fretwork was 80.
That should have included setting it up.

The total for this work should be 80. The other 60 is the hosing. Sorry we're dumping on your buddy, but - that's terrible business, trying to turn an 80 dollar quote into a 140 actual.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by SBassman

Yes he is.

The quote for a new nut and some fretwork was 80.
That should have included setting it up.

The total for this work should be 80. The other 60 is the hosing. Sorry we're dumping on your buddy, but - that's terrible business, trying to turn an 80 dollar quote into a 140 actual.

+1
The set up should be included in the price of a new nut.
If he just did a full set up a week earlier it really isn't much extra work when he is doing the nut.

[throughthefire]

Should the repair man be on the hook for replacing the string? Yes. But he shouldn't be charging for the new 'setup' - because that should be included in the (excessive) charge he's making to replace the nut.

But the OP still has issues. In a few weeks he's had two different nuts (the original plus the brass one) and three sets of strings (the originals, the SR2000's, and the Rotosounds). It sounds like he has a definitive idea of what the bass should sounds like in his head, and he's trying to get there by throwing money at a bass technician.

Still, however, I think the repair man is trying to take the OP's trousers down. The OP should get the bass back, and spend some time working on it himself.

[pacojas]

in the past, i had a nut & bridge replaced by none other than Mr. Leo Quan. the term "set-up" was never mentioned. it was routinely expected and done as part of the process and absorbed as part of the labor charge.

this tech is trying to charge for an intallation, then charge again for a set-up! am i missing something????

oh yeah,... DUCK TAPE!!!!

[Itzayana]

Doing your own set-up is about as difficult as changing the oil in your car or repairing a broken household appliance.
Sure there are opportunities to screw things up, but unless you are a complete idiot you can do it and there isn't too much that you can mess up (any more than a self proclaimed "luthier" or a teenager at guitar center) that can't be fixed... by you.
All you need are a few basic tools, an accurate tuner, a little time, some patients and access to the internet.
Why in no time at all you can be breaking other peoples guitars and charging them to fix what you broke!

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Itzayana

Doing your own set-up is about as difficult as changing the oil in your car or repairing a broken household appliance.
Sure there are opportunities to screw things up, but unless you are a complete idiot you can do it and there isn't too much that you can mess up (any more than a self proclaimed "luthier" or a teenager at guitar center) that can't be fixed... by you.
All you need are a few basic tools, an accurate tuner, a little time, some patients and access to the internet.
Why in no time at all you can be breaking other peoples guitars and charging them to fix what you broke!

I agree that everyone should at least try to learn the setup process, but if they can't it doesn't make them idiots. That's just a tad harsh. My dad couldn't turn a screwdriver to save his life but he was far from idioticy.

Patients= Doctor's clients.

[Angel LaHash]

If i break it then i expect to pay for it myself, in his case should be a part of insurance.
Most trades ive seen have insurace for miss haps like that.

As for setting it up, that should be FREE as he did it.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by hdracer

+1
The set up should be included in the price of a new nut.
If he just did a full set up a week earlier it really isn't much extra work when he is doing the nut.

Agreed on all of the above...


- georgestrings

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Agreed on all of the above...


- georgestrings

+1. How do you install a new nut and not look at the setup?

[SBassman]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

+1. How do you install a new nut and not look at the setup?

Exactly. I'm amazed even One person here tried to defend it.

[TRichardsbass]

Installing a new nut should include the bass being made playable. How do you properly install a nut without making sure the bass intonates properly and isn't cut wrong and causes strings to buzz? That is a setup. And since the string break happened as he was doing his install, it's on him.

As for the strings, they were newer, he broke it. He replaces it. If he doesn't have the same set he either orders an single or gives you a new set of equal value no cost to the OP.

And I am sorry, but rarely does a different set of strings require a significant difference in setup. This tech is a dope. Go get your bass and watch one YouTube video. I recommend the one by Roger Sadowsky.

[Macrocosmcwh]

Love all the input thanks! Just to clear a few things up. The "luthier" is a good guy. He runs a small business out of his house. I am not trying to ruin his credibility, I have not seen the bill yet. It may turn out that over his turkey yesterday he had a change of heart and will do the right thing.

When I found him I brought him three of my basses to work on. Two that were way out of wack (The lightwave and the Steinberger) and one that had been set up about a year prior by my previous "luthier". The lightwave bass was brand spanking new to me and the nut was very oddly shaped when I got it. It had a very dramatic angle towrds the g sting and quite a bit of buzz. At the time at the original setup, he had suggested that we make a new nut. I told him to try and set it up with the current nut. So he did. I got all three basses back within a week as promised. When I played the bass there I noticed that the string buzz was FAR LESS and thought I could "live" with it. Well as the bass settled down in my home the buzz came back and it was actually buzzing behind my fingering. Almost a "sympathetic" buzz. So I called him told him that I think we need to do a new nut. The bass he builds custom has a brass nut (And to be honest, I figured since it was needed I would put a little "bling" on my bass... more for look than sound). I told him I wanted a brass nut.

The second visit and the brass nut were my ideas. Now I do think that the nut caused the string to break... Being a cellist in my former life... I know when you put a new set of strings on a cello you need to MAKE SURE THAT YOU get some graphite on the nut and the bridge to help the string slide over the openings so that your sting does not break on you from un-even tension. This a lesson you learn the first time an A string breaks at the bridge and slaps you in the face.

I am hoping that when I go to pick up my bass that he only charges me for the nut/fret polishing. But we will see. I will for sure post back to let you know.... Good guy.... Not so good guy.... Either way... I will post his name web address so that you all can either go to him when in Phoenix or stay clear away!!!!

Thank you again everyone for your input!

[ggunn]

Originally Posted by millsbass5

I have never, ever had someone set my bass up. I've learned what I like over the years, so why pay someone? I've just never understood a person's point of view that pays another person to cut their grass, change the oil in their car, or set their bass up. It just doesn't make sense giving someone your guitar, and they basically just guess as to how you like the action, neck relief, etc. My point of view on this is also probably due to the fact that I'm a constant tinkerer. I'm always takin' something apart just to see how it works. Whatever. But, I know I'd just take that cash & buy more strings, etc.

I agree with all that except for the oil change. It's worth an extra $10-15 to me not to have to fool with that stuff.

[Immigrant]

This is how I saw it and I gladly welcome corrections because I'm half a dummy.

OP paid for a setup and new strings. A week later, OP gets new nut. String breaks. Demand made by the repairer for more setup $ plus cost of a full set of strings.

Here's my question: If the new nut is identical to the old one in every way except the material it's made from, how much more setup is the bass going to need? Re-intonated, sure maybe, but a complete setup and setup charge? Is the new nut going to create back bow that wasn't there before?

I don't remember the original post stating that the original nut was wacky, so no reason for (me) to assume that the new nut had to be drastically different than the original, so of course many (me) would wonder why a second setup charge after only a week.

I've been curious about those Lightwaves. OP, good luck with whatever happens!

[Chef]

Getting a new nut exactly the same would be quite a feat.
Exact same nut slot depth, break angle, everything...

Different brand and gauge of new strings to boot.

Complete setup.
Which takes all of about 15 minutes when you're proficient at it.

[nutdog]

"Nuts!"

General Anthony C. McAuliffe

[Macrocosmcwh]

Originally Posted by Immigrant

This is how I saw it and I gladly welcome corrections because I'm half a dummy.

OP paid for a setup and new strings. A week later, OP gets new nut. String breaks. Demand made by the repairer for more setup $ plus cost of a full set of strings.

Here's my question: If the new nut is identical to the old one in every way except the material it's made from, how much more setup is the bass going to need? Re-intonated, sure maybe, but a complete setup and setup charge? Is the new nut going to create back bow that wasn't there before?

I don't remember the original post stating that the original nut was wacky, so no reason for (me) to assume that the new nut had to be drastically different than the original, so of course many (me) would wonder why a second setup charge after only a week.

I've been curious about those Lightwaves. OP, good luck with whatever happens!

The original nut was too low on the G string. (story of my life lol) The new nut follows the curvature of the neck and saddle.

I agree there should be a new setup... but he is saying that he will have to completely set up the bass because the strings that he has to put on are non-articulated.

The lightwave sounds AMAZING!!!!!! except for the buzz! =)

[Immigrant]

Originally Posted by Chef

Getting a new nut exactly the same would be quite a feat.
Exact same nut slot depth, break angle, everything...

Different brand and gauge of new strings to boot.

Complete setup.
Which takes all of about 15 minutes when you're proficient at it.

Thank you. I agree with most of that, especially the setup time.

I mis-read the original post, I guess. After re-reading, I see the repairer wanted the OP to throw on a different brand than he had purchased the previous week. I guess if Lightwaves are string-brand specific, strike one in my book. I understand that when it comes to the Kala U-Bass.

As far as the nut fabricating difficulty, hogwash. Hand me a block of aluminum and I can't carve you a carburetor, but even a semi-skilled repairer should be able to make a nut without too many cast offs.

I hope it goes the way you wish, OP.