"Made in _____" ???

[awilkie84]

Originally Posted by mdogs

Well, I have to disagree with this! I am absolutely saying that "American hands can construct a superior instrument." There are plenty of exceptions in Europe, Canada and Japan. Can other countries do it, I suppose that they can. Do they do it, no. If you want to label me as an elitist, just make sure that the sign you give me that says it says it in big enough letters that EVERYONE can see it.

Saying that Squires are better than American built instruments is, for lack of a better word, insane. It is just not true. What is true is that some Squires are better than other Squires. Likewise, some American Fenders are better than other American Fenders. But don't give me this stuff about a $300 Squire being better than an American built Fender.

You, sir, are a fool & need to crawl out from under that rock you've been under.

Originally Posted by bigsnaketex

I build basses in my garage for myself and some of my musical partners.

Considering that my labor is "free" (except the pound of flesh my wifes takes out for my "hobby"). . . . . and to build a high quality bass I'll spend anywhere from $600-$800 on the pieces parts.

So how in the hell do they make a Squier bass out of real wood and real parts and sell it for $299??!

I have no idea except that their economies of scale are obviouly massive!

So more power to the folks that can build them and sell them for that.

I surely can't.

This is easy. Mass buying power. It's the same reason why a National guitar store can offer better prices on guitars than the mom & pop shop around the corner. Because they're buying in much larger numbers, they get better deals on it.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by troy mcclure

Some Korean made were in my opinion way better than Mexican. I speaking of the Cort factory that was there that produced the Squier ProTone Line in 1996-1998.

Agreed - I've also owned some Korean made Spectors and Schecters that were very good instruments...


- georgestrings

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by awilkie84

You, sir, are a fool & need to crawl out from under that rock you've been under.



This is easy. Mass buying power. It's the same reason why a National guitar store can offer better prices on guitars than the mom & pop shop around the corner. Because they're buying in much larger numbers, they get better deals on it.

Actually, I'd say he was pretty accurate - you don't seem to know what you're talking about, though...


- georgestrings

[Kmonk]

Originally Posted by awilkie84

My personal take on a lot of this is Fanboy elitism.
People are willing to pay more for a MIA instrument because they perceive a higher quality, not necessarily because it IS higher quality.
Generally, when I'm shopping, I pick up basses that appeal to my eye and then try them out. Most of these tend to be Fenders, but a lot of them are Squier CV & VM. The ones that play best range by a LOT. The last time I was in & purchased a bass, I settled on a Mexican Fender Active Deluxe Jazz V. This is after playing an American Deluxe Jazz V and a Squier Vintage Modified Jazz V. The VM was my second pick. It didn't play as well as the MIM (which played better than the MIA), but at 3/10ths of the cost, there was no contest.
Weight-wise, the Squier won, with the MIM being second.
The MIA definitely won on looks, though. That bound neck with pearloid inlays is yummy. It's too bad you can't get a bound & blocked MIM 5 string neck (even aftermarket -_-)
Besides, headstock decals can be removed.

I will respectfully disagree with your comment that the quality is perceived to be higher in MIA instruments. Fender has made it public knowledge that many of the materials used in MIA guitars and basses are different than those used in MIM, Squiers etc. I have seen many imperfections in MIM and Chinese made basses. Having said that, we should all just play whatever makes us happy regardless of what anyone else thinks.

[bolophonic]

Originally Posted by R Baer

So do American instrument makers!

I am a builder of wholesale custom goods, so I buy American every single time I have an opportunity to do so.

[lowphatbass]

Regardless of what we all think there's a pecking order when it comes to country of manufacture. Sure you can find great examples and poor examples no matter where you look, it's the nature of quality control, set-up and the random chaos that takes place when you bolt a bunch or parts together.

I pay attention to where a bass was made because I want to know I'm paying a fair price, whether there's actual value involved is subjective.

If you can't or don't notice a difference in quality between a Squier Affinity and a MIA Fender bass then you've got nothing to worry about. It's a valid position and I mean that honestly. If you are in this position then you should think about the fact that a used Affinity can be had $80 and a MIA Fender can regularly sell for $800. I'm not saying the MIA is 10 times better, but the market majority seems to feel this way.

I have one MIA Fender, a '74-75 P. I tend to like MIJ Fenders(and Squiers) because I think they're every bit as good as their MIA counterparts and can be had for less than half the price in most cases. I also understand that I am in the minority.

[wraub]

I pay attention to how well a bass is made. Where made is often secondary.

wraub

[tylerwylie]

Originally Posted by R Baer

So do American instrument makers!

True that, however if overseas makers are better at producing instruments in the lower price range, then let them do so and the dollars saved will go else where at home. Specialization and all that jazz. I have a Chinese made SX bass; Indonesian Ibanez; Japanese Fender and two American hand made basses I had Tom Clement build. Each owns at their price point.

[Trayster2]

Sorry about opening a pandoras box. It was truly an innocent question based on my seeing Fenders priced differently depending on where they were made. To me, it still doesn't make much sense.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by mdogs

This old tired argument...If you don't want to pay the prices for instruments of overall BETTER quality, then don't. But, don't rationalize that these lower priced instruments are of the same (or better, ha ha) quality as the American made basses, because the hard and true facts are that they are NOT.

+1

[tylerwylie]

Originally Posted by mdogs

This old tired argument...If you don't want to pay the prices for instruments of overall BETTER quality, then don't. But, don't rationalize that these lower priced instruments are of the same (or better, ha ha) quality as the American made basses, because the hard and true facts are that they are NOT.

Not all QA is equal though There are periods where Japanese built Fender's might've favored comparably to American made Fender's at a lower price point. Your statement may be the trend, but isn't true in all cases.

[PrairieDogma]

Wow, this is more a discussion of rampant consumerism than it is about basses. Just sayin'.
Carry on.

[Psychbunny]

I have two U.S. basses and a Canadian/U.S. made bass all of these I purchased in the last year as I am middle aged and can afford it. Prior I had two Korean made basses, a Martin Stinger and a Dean Edge. These basses were fine and since I am a bedroom player I do not need an American bass but I will say all three of my current basses have better playability and sound than the Korean counterparts and the Dean had EMG's. My Gibson gets a bad rap for QC and pick-ups but it is hands down my preferred bass. My Fender is pretty much tied with the Godin but all three are better than any other basses that I have owned. If they were just "the same" as the Asian basses I would still buy the US/Canadian or European basses if I could afford to because I know the workers are paid a living wage and am against the povertization of industrial labors by shipping manufacturers to the most desperate country onlyb to move the factory again when the country starts to demand standards that are less desperate. Look at the Us-Japan-Korea-China-Indonesia continuim. You do not help a countries citizens by exploiting them until you can find someone else that is willing to be exploited worse. The U.S. has not had a manufacturing loss because we demand too high of a wage we have a manufacturing loss because we do not demand a level playing field. Raise the other countries up don't take the U.S. down. If you can afford it buy a bass or anything else from a country with labor laws and enviornmental laws. If you cannot afford it look used (Peavy, Godin) or buy the best Asian bass and trade it in when you can afford to. This is not just about quality of product it is also about quality of life.

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Actually, I'd say he was pretty accurate - you don't seem to know what you're talking about, though...


- georgestrings

I concur.

[MEKer]

I will say any Matsumoku-made bass is on par or even better than many US-made basses. Too bad they went under in '87. They produced absolutely excellent quality with a lot of skilled hand-work in it for many brands during the '80's. My 4 early-80's Matsumoku Washburns are truly the best quality basses I have ever put my hands on. Others can and have matched that quality of course, but you generally have to go to a custom luthier for it nowadays IMO. But, OTOH, you do not have to have that level of quality to have a bass that can make you very happy, sound and feel great to you and is a joy to play.

Does country of construction make a difference---no.

Does the ethic/skill of worker/QC of the factory make a difference---yes.

Each factory will make its own reputation, not necessarily the country it is in.

Guess that just means you just gotta check over the bass really well before you buy it. A cheapo may very be better than another 3x it's price or at least equal. Or that cheapo may well be exactly that--a cheapo that sounds/feels like or LASTS like a cheapo.

Ahhhh.....where is Matsumoku now?

[bootsox]

European or Japanese for me. The only American stuff I run is Peavey.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by mdogs

This old tired argument...If you don't want to pay the prices for instruments of overall BETTER quality, then don't. But, don't rationalize that these lower priced instruments are of the same (or better, ha ha) quality as the American made basses, because the hard and true facts are that they are NOT.

Maybe five years ago. The true facts, which you cannot provide supporting evidence, exist in your head.

America shipped manufacturing overseas to satisfy obsession with lower and lower prices, at the expense of jobs. Manufacturing in Asia sees huge markets and cash flow, enabling them to retool and build consistenly good products for the price point.

I bought a new MIA Sadowsky five years ago. To finance it, i sold two MIJ basses, but kept a MIC bass (non-Fender). Last April. I bought a six string acoustic, made in China, for half the price of an over-priced Taylor. Same quality. And not built by slaves. I walked in to buy a Taylor, and walked out with a different brand.

Keep believing America makes the best. The world has moved on.

It's sad that the obsession with "the lowest price rules" mentality has trumped keeping the money in the country. The expertise and R&D continue to evolve in the places of manufacture.

I challenge you to provide the "hard and true facts". The hard and true is sales for geat from Asia is outpacing gear made in other countries, and arguably, your country is driving the demand for that gear.

It's a funny world.

One good thing about TB is there are many many experts with first hand knowledge on current labour practices in all Asian countries. Not only that. If you ask, you will also learn that most of the posters here, whining about Asia, have bought computers, phones, extension cables, house light, underwear and clothes made exclusively in the USA to show their support for the American worker. It's truly inspiring.

[smcd]

Originally Posted by bmc

Last April. I bought a six string acoustic, made in China, for half the price of an over-priced Taylor. Same quality. And not built by slaves.

And how exactly do you know this? Did you get free flight over to the Chinese factory and check the pay and working conditions of the laborers??



The ONLY reason that Chinese goods are inexpensive is because they pay their workers 20 to 40 times less than their counterparts in the US and EU. Chinese workers get no health benefits, have no environmental regulations to speak of, and have no rights. The next time you claim that your guitar isn't built by slaves, go spend some time working in a Chinese factory, and then get back to me.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by smcd

And how exactly do you know this? Did you get free flight over to the Chinese factory and check the pay and working conditions of the laborers??

I know the owner of the factory.

But don't let that stand in the way of your prejudices. (I know...some of your best friends are Asian, right?)

Do you feel any guilt when you buy clothes or electronic goods China?

[smcd]

Originally Posted by bmc

I know the owner of the factory.

But don't let that stand in the way of your prejudices.

(I know...some of your best friends are Asian, right?

"Prejudices"??!! LOL!!! I guess all the people I've spoken to who've been to Chinese factories are lying to me. I guess every single news article, in print and on video, are lying too??


Tell me... what's the hourly rate at your friend's guitar factory? How are the benefits?