"Made in _____" ???

[Bert Slide]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

I don't know of anyone personally who seeks 70's knockoff Japanese guitars. They are fun for decorating the walls and collection but playing them out....blech. You can get most any of them for under $200. I don't particular consider the demand to equate "sought after".

I have an Ibanez early 70's lawsuit era tele custom that plays and sounds as good as most of the Fenders at that time and better than a lot of them. I'd play it out anywhere with confidence and you'll never pry it from my hands for a paltry $200.

[bill reed]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

I don't know of anyone personally who seeks 70's knockoff Japanese guitars. They are fun for decorating the walls and collection but playing them out....blech. You can get most any of them for under $200. I don't particular consider the demand to equate "sought after".

I think if you check you will find that Tokia guitars from the 60s and 70s are much sought after. also there are a number of Japanese made Ric (4003, 4001) copys that are very easy to sell as there a very much wanted bass. not all 70s Japenese basses are good but they did made a lot off good ones and a lot sell for twice what the cost back then.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by tmdazed

One just has to look at the decline in quality of even the mighty Gibson , do a search, there have been countless horror stories with them over the past decade or so. This goes for all USA mfg's .

Please, are you seriously trying to lump all the USA builders into the same sad heap as.... "even the Mighty Gibson" ?

Are you at all familiar with Musicman, G&L, Carvin, USA Peavey, Rickenbacker, to name just a few ? These USA builders have been producing fine quality instruments the whole time they've been in business.

You can throw as much of that against the wall as you please, but I doubt any of it will stick. Too many knowledgeable players around here for that to happen.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by bill reed

I think if you check you will find that Tokia guitars from the 60s and 70s are much sought after. also there are a number of Jap made Ric (4003, 4001) copys that are very easy to sell as there a very much wanted bass. not all 70s Jap basses are good but they did made a lot off good ones and a lot sell for twice what the cost back then.

Yes, apparently outside The States, Tokai, Greco, etc are very popular knockoffs. But not so much within the US. This has to be largely due to availability issues.

Why choose an import knockoff when the genuine article is practically growing on trees in the USA? No reason, really. I feel for the guys in OZ when I hear how much they get juiced for USA gear down there.

BTW, a better term is Japanese, Japan, Nippon. But "Jap"? C'mon.

[Growly Lytes]

Originally Posted by StuartV

There's more to the quality of a bass guitar than how it sounds or feels to you. Do the tuning machines hold a tune (for a LONG time)? Is the neck rock solid stable? Is the truss rod beefy enough to take some accidental abuse? Can you set the action super low (denoting an exceptionally good quality neck, fretboard, and fretwork)? Are the components (mechanical and electronic) robust enough to handle years of bar gig abuse?

A lot of these things contribute significantly to what differentiates a more expensive bass from a less expensive one.

And all this is right on.
Its the same for the Gene Punisher bass & the Cort Punisher bass.
If you want the better quality Punisher its got
better wood
better p/u`s
better hardware all round like the nut,
the tuners,
the bridge,
even the fretwork & fretboard arent the same as the cheaper Punisher, you cant tell me cheap basses are better quality.
Still may be a great bass though.

[bill reed]

Originally Posted by Growly Lytes

And all this is right on.
Its the same for the Gene Punisher bass & the Cort Punisher bass.
If you want the better quality Punisher its got
better wood
better p/u`s
better hardware all round like the nut,
the tuners,
the bridge,
even the fretwork & fretboard arent the same as the cheaper Punisher, you cant tell me cheap basses are better quality.
Still may be a great bass though.

Again your not comparing like with like. if you use better wood, better hardware then yes it will be better no mater where its made.
if you compair say a Cort T.M Stevens Signature model with say a $1.399 fender then how do they compair.
both the same price.

[ChuckTrucks]

Everyone was totally thrown off with the Gene Simmons Punisher reference. I cant say Ive played one let alone know the differences between a "real" one and an overseas one. lol

Why did you have to do that to us?

[Lon86]

Call me what you will... I prefer American made basses over anything else I have played with the exception of some high end European basses (Ritters etc...)

Have no need or desire to own or play anything less than the real thing.
Have played many many basses... was part of the Guitar Center buying force back in the late 90's and early 00's...

Have never felt or heard a Squire that even compares to a good AM made instrument, with the exception of some early made Japanese knockoffs.

Not to say they are bad (foreign made), in fact they are great for the money, but if you can afford a top shelf bass, it will be worth it it the long run.

IMHO...

[Growly Lytes]

Originally Posted by ChuckTrucks

Everyone was totally thrown off with the Gene Simmons Punisher reference. I cant say Ive played one let alone know the differences between a "real" one and an overseas one. lol

Why did you have to do that to us?

Sorry bro i didnt want to lift the lid just trying to prove a point that if you pay more usaully it will be better all round.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by tmdazed

This is absolutely NOT the truth , this sounds more like consumer elitism and union rhetoric. One just has to look at the decline in quality of even the mighty Gibson , do a search, there have been countless horror stories with them over the past decade or so. This goes for all USA mfg's . Maybe at one time, off shore guitars were sub par, but I would put any of my Korean , Indonesian or Chinese made guitars up against anything North American made, you pay for the made in America sticker and that is about it. There are some great works coming out of the far east, just remember , in the 70's same was said about Japanese electronics and instruments, today all are sought after.

Whatever makes you feel better about your purchases, I suppose...


- georgestrings

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Templar

Please, are you seriously trying to lump all the USA builders into the same sad heap as.... "even the Mighty Gibson" ?

Are you at all familiar with Musicman, G&L, Carvin, USA Peavey, Rickenbacker, to name just a few ? These USA builders have been producing fine quality instruments the whole time they've been in business.

You can throw as much of that against the wall as you please, but I doubt any of it will stick. Too many knowledgeable players around here for that to happen.

Yeah, you've gotta love the BS some of these guys sling...


- georgestrings

[EpiRipper]

Originally Posted by Growly Lytes

And all this is right on.
Its the same for the Gene Punisher bass & the Cort Punisher bass.
If you want the better quality Punisher its got
better wood
better p/u`s
better hardware all round like the nut,
the tuners,
the bridge,
even the fretwork & fretboard arent the same as the cheaper Punisher, you cant tell me cheap basses are better quality.
Still may be a great bass though.

The original Punisher was made by B C Rich. I have no idea about them, but I believe the Spencer's Gifts Punishers were made in the Cort factory.
The latest Punishers ( both the $500 and the $5000 ones) are made by Cort. One is neck through with EMG's, one is bolt on with Mighty Mite p/ups. They are both made (as far as I'm aware) in Indonesia.
I have the $500 Punisher ( although it was $800 here in Australia) and it's a better player than my '76 Fender P, but not quite as good as my GS-Axe2.
It must be said though, that the $5000 Punisher also comes with a meeting with Gene.

[michael_atw]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Yeah, you've gotta love the BS some of these guys sling...


- georgestrings

I see some decent points; I can take an old Korean (I wouldn't play any 90's or 2000's Squiers of Indonesian or Chinese origin, I've played a few and they just aren't that good) Squier and play it on stage through a great amp and get something good out of it. Key words are "on stage" and "great amp". Great amps will make them sound good, on stage most won't hear much difference. But any studio time or stand-out time would reveal deficiencies.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

I see some decent points; I can take an old Korean (I wouldn't play any 90's or 2000's Squiers of Indonesian or Chinese origin, I've played a few and they just aren't that good) Squier and play it on stage through a great amp and get something good out of it. Key words are "on stage" and "great amp". Great amps will make them sound good, on stage most won't hear much difference. But any studio time or stand-out time would reveal deficiencies.

Hey, I spent about 10 years playing good paying gigs with mostly MIK Squiers - I know they're good instruments... I also will say that currently, most imported basses from Korea, Indonesia, and China are most likely a better value for the money - no question about that...

However, this is a steaming pile of BS:

"but I would put any of my Korean , Indonesian or Chinese made guitars up against anything North American made, you pay for the made in America sticker and that is about it."

...or this little gem:

"Myself I find many of the made in america bases and guitars inferior to the imports for QC and overall build etc"

...and to *try* to "prove" that sort of thing, we've seen everything from goal post moving:

I'm paraphrasing here - "If the same amount of money was spent on them, the quality would be just as good, if not better"... and yeah, if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle...

Then the next weak attempt, which was accusations of "jingoism", which is basically like playing a race card...

Bottom line is, today's imported basses are still not on par with MIA basses by a number of companies, including Fender, Gibson, Carvin, EBMM, G&L, Lakland, Ric, Hamer, Dean, etc... - they're just not, and all the BS and excuses in the world will not change the reality of that... It's pathetic the lengths some people will go to make themselves feel better because they can't or won't spend the money for high quality MIA instruments... You don't see those of us that mainly play MIA instruments slagging THEIR choices - it would be nice to receive the same consideration, instead of seeing these same tired old threads on this stuff...

It would be great if people would just buy and play the best instruments they can afford, and don't worry about what others play...


- georgestrings

[bill reed]

I think at one time American made basses were of a very high quality and only the Germans made Warwick and Hofner were in the same league. then the Japenese started making really good Basses, and the Japenese made Fenders started to get as good at the American made ones,
I think that some (Not all) Korean made basses are now starting to compare with the quality of some off the American made ones. its not that the Korean ones are better only that the quality is now on par with some of the American made ones. Cot-Tek made 68% off all guitars sold last year so someone is buying them.
Cor-Tec make some G&L. Lakeland and Gresch and many other top brands.
i dont think its the quality of MIA dropping but more that Korean basses getting better and now some are very close to MiA quality.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Hey, I spent about 10 years playing good paying gigs with mostly MIK Squiers - I know they're good instruments... I also will say that currently, most imported basses from Korea, Indonesia, and China are most likely a better value for the money - no question about that...

However, this is a steaming pile of BS:

"but I would put any of my Korean , Indonesian or Chinese made guitars up against anything North American made, you pay for the made in America sticker and that is about it."

...or this little gem:

"Myself I find many of the made in america bases and guitars inferior to the imports for QC and overall build etc"

...and to *try* to "prove" that sort of thing, we've seen everything from goal post moving:

I'm paraphrasing here - "If the same amount of money was spent on them, the quality would be just as good, if not better"... and yeah, if my aunt had balls, she'd be my uncle...

Then the next weak attempt, which was accusations of "jingoism", which is basically like playing a race card...

Bottom line is, today's imported basses are still not on par with MIA basses by a number of companies, including Fender, Gibson, Carvin, EBMM, G&L, Lakland, Ric, Hamer, Dean, etc... - they're just not, and all the BS and excuses in the world will not change the reality of that... It's pathetic the lengths some people will go to make themselves feel better because they can't or won't spend the money for high quality MIA instruments... You don't see those of us that mainly play MIA instruments slagging THEIR choices - it would be nice to receive the same consideration, instead of seeing these same tired old threads on this stuff...

It would be great if people would just buy and play the best instruments they can afford, and don't worry about what others play...


- georgestrings

I agree with this 100%.

[bmc]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Bottom line is, today's imported basses are still not on par with MIA basses by a number of companies, including Fender, Gibson, Carvin, EBMM, G&L, Lakland, Ric, Hamer, Dean, etc... - they're just not, and all the BS and excuses in the world will not change the reality of that...

- georgestrings

That is just ignorant.

Time for the mods to shut this thread down.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by bmc

That is just ignorant.

Time for the mods to shut this thread down.

There is nothing ignorant about it - I've probably owned over 150 basses, and played hundreds more, and am basing my statements on actual experience... Sorry it hurts your feelings, but it is what it is...


- georgestrings

[Templar]

Originally Posted by bmc

That is just ignorant.

Time for the mods to shut this thread down.

Really? A demand for censorship? lol

Are opposing views not tolerated on your planet?

[scubaduba]

There's no way to substantiate either side. Too subjective. Different strokes for different folks. Play what sounds and feels best to you and aligns with your goals, objectives and preferences. Reality is there are fine and not so fine instruments at all different price points. Imports AND domestic instruments.