MIM Fender basses

[khutch]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Agreed. I think it's funny when people find it unbelievable and impossible that an individual finds their Squier (or whatever ) is superior to whatever more expensive instrument they are comparing it to. It's obvious to me the "in their opinion'' is implied when they say somethting like that, and in that case they are not wrong in the least. If someone says their Squier is better than any MIM/MIA they ever played, who are you to tell them they're crazy?

There are both subjective and objective measures that can be used to rate basses. The subjective measures are always matters of opinion and your opinion on a subjective measure is of course unassailable but by itself it is also completely useless to anyone but yourself! Subjective opinions are only useful statistically. The fact that you like or dislike some subjective aspect of a bass tells me nothing, the fact that 40% of TB members like or dislike that feature tells me a lot. So "in my opinion" is always implied when subjective measures are explicitly being discussed.

When someone says something like "I went to GC last night and the Squier SS Jag blew away everything else in the store" as people here often say it is not clear they are limiting that to subjective matters only and in fact they very often add "in every way." which makes it clear they are not limiting themselves to opinion based measurements. So you cannot say that "in my opinion" is always implied. There are plenty of Squier fans here who claim they are superior in every way and I disagree strongly with that. Yet I also feel that a properly set up stock Squier plays and sounds as well as any bass with the same pickup configuration.

I have always bought MIMs over Squiers due to objective differences. Whether or not the objective differences justify the price difference is a matter of opinion but the existence of the objective differences is not. The objective difference between a MIM Standard P Bass and a Squier Matt Freeman P Bass is quite small. If I ever want a new plain Jane passive P bass it will be the Matt Freeman. But there is nothing in the Squier lineup that even comes close to a Reggie Hamilton in configuration. Do you want to tell me that your Squier fiver blows away any MIA? Ok, show me its asymmetric profile, compound radius fingerboard, and graphite truss rod neck!

When someone says that their Squier blows away every MIM and MIA all they are really saying is that they like their Squier. And I will believe them right up until they admit that they have sanded off the Squier decal and replaced it with a Fender decal. If vast numbers of people here truly believed that Squiers were superior to Fenders then at least occasionally we would read how they sanded off a Fender decal and replaced it with a Squier decal. Has that ever happened?

Ken

[Templar]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Who says USA made pickups are objectively better than "duncan designed" pickups?

Duncan "designed" pickups have gained a reputation as sounding thin, and in the case of some active setups, lacking in the clarity department. This was also my experience with two Schecter basses.

Those are shortfalls, which I don't find in any USA (pick your brand) elecs that I've owned, which is quite a few.

If those aspects don't matter, or if that's the sound someone wants, then that's fine but there is a measurable objective difference at work.

Aside: Most would agree that Duncan Basslines are pretty good elecs. It seems unreasonable to expect their budget "designed" stuff to perform as well. No?

[bumperbass]

Originally Posted by Templar

Duncan "designed" pickups have gained a reputation as sounding thin, and in the case of some active setups, lacking in the clarity department. This was also my experience with two Schecter basses.

Those are shortfalls, which I don't find in any USA (pick your brand) elecs that I've owned, which is quite a few.

If those aspects don't matter, or if that's the sound someone wants, then that's fine but there is a measurable objective difference at work.

Aside: Most would agree that Duncan Basslines are pretty good elecs. It seems unreasonable to expect their budget "designed" stuff to perform as well. No?

This is pne part of this I fail to understand. How much is involved in making a pickup? It's simple. There's plastic, magnets, wire, etc. Why would Fender put a crappy pickup in ANY bass? Why would an Asian or Mexican pickup be regarded as crap? Pickups have been around for what, 70 or more years in one form or another? What's the big deal? Yeah, they may sound different, but purposely 'thin'? I don't get this mental reasoning at all. Please explain.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by bumperbass

This is pne part of this I fail to understand. How much is involved in making a pickup? It's simple. There's plastic, magnets, wire, etc. Why would Fender put a crappy pickup in ANY bass? Why would an Asian or Mexican pickup be regarded as crap? Pickups have been around for what, 70 or more years in one form or another? What's the big deal? Yeah, they may sound different, but purposely 'thin'? I don't get this mental reasoning at all. Please explain.

There's an art to making a good sounding pickup. Perhaps you should ask a professional pickup builder what constitutes a good sounding pickup vs a cheaply made budget model.

[KingRazor]

Originally Posted by Templar

Duncan "designed" pickups have gained a reputation as sounding thin, and in the case of some active setups, lacking in the clarity department. This was also my experience with two Schecter basses.

Those are shortfalls, which I don't find in any USA (pick your brand) elecs that I've owned, which is quite a few.

If those aspects don't matter, or if that's the sound someone wants, then that's fine but there is a measurable objective difference at work.

Aside: Most would agree that Duncan Basslines are pretty good elecs. It seems unreasonable to expect their budget "designed" stuff to perform as well. No?

Of course there is a difference, but you simply cannot say one pickup is objectively "better" than another one. It is entirely possible that someone would prefer the tone of the duncan designed pickup over an MIA pickup. So in their eyes, the duncan pickup would be better, and they wouldn't be right or wrong, that would simply be their preference.

Tone is subjective.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by KingRazor

Of course there is a difference, but you simply cannot say one pickup is objectively "better" than another one. It is entirely possible that someone would prefer the tone of the duncan designed pickup over an MIA pickup. So in their eyes, the duncan pickup would be better, and they wouldn't be right or wrong, that would simply be their preference.

Tone is subjective.

Yeah that's what I'm saying.

[khutch]

Originally Posted by bumperbass

This is pne part of this I fail to understand. How much is involved in making a pickup? It's simple. There's plastic, magnets, wire, etc. Why would Fender put a crappy pickup in ANY bass? Why would an Asian or Mexican pickup be regarded as crap? Pickups have been around for what, 70 or more years in one form or another? What's the big deal? Yeah, they may sound different, but purposely 'thin'? I don't get this mental reasoning at all. Please explain.

You are right. There definitely are differences in pickups and you definitely can hear them. Whether they are good or bad is entirely a matter of personal opinion if you really listen and form your own opinion. On TB however a form of mass hysteria will often take over. If a relative hand full of people consistently characterize a pickup as thin and sterile (or whatever pejorative term is trendy today) that will quickly become an established "fact" here. And the "must have" pickups get defined the same way. The real art in designing a pickup lies in convincing large numbers of musicians that it is awesome....

Ken

[Benton]

I have a 99 MIM p that I picked up at a Pawnshop last year all dirty and neglected for 250$. I always wanted a P bass ever since I first learned on a 72 Musicmaster.

Neck is straight and I set it up to play perfectly. I did change out the PU and replaced the stock one with Seymour Duncan Vintage P PU. It gave the bass a warmer tone than the original. The stock PU was hot bassy and very usable. Alnico magnets verses the ceramic on the MIM. The tuners and bridge were functional so kept them as well as the pots and jack. I did however replace the cheap looking tone cap with a Mylar film cap of the same value and that made a nice improvement of the the tone control.

The bass is comfortable and plays beautifully and sounds just like a Pbass should. however if I was paying the $ for MIA I would expect some improvements. The neck is straight but there are visual flaws in the wood the should not make the cut in a more expensive instrument. The other thing I will replace are the pickguard screws which have all rusted definitely not what I would want if I was spending MIA $.

It is a comfortable and great sounding bass that did not cost much. I use it to compliment my Modulus Q5. It does something that the Q5 can't, sound like a P Bass.

Peace

[casbonano]

I was looking to pick up a MIM p-bass standard when I went to guitar center. The one they had didn't feel good and the workmanship was shoddy. i mean the frets looked like they belonged on a $100 bass. I played an MIA standard jazz an precision both of which which were the stags antlers. Then I played a MIM standard Jazz that was almost as nice and well built as the MIA basses I played. I won't lie and say there wasn't a difference because there was. But this MIM jazz is awesome. So it's mine now.

I would have quickly chosen a squire CV over the MIM p bass. I mean it was awful. The MIA JAZZ was better. $600 better? Can't say. But it just goes to show why it's best to go play before you play.

Only thing it needs are new pups, but that's because since they are single coil and I change my settings a lot I get hum from time to time when both pups aren't equally balanced out.

[Dredmahawkus]

I was one of the ones that tried to convince myself that a MIM could be as good as a MIA...I was wrong! I bought a MIA deluxe jazz from someone on here and recieved it today...it is 10xs the instrument my MIM is. I mean the MIM works...but you can tell that every single thing on this bass the pickups the neck the fretwork the bridge everything is better and the MIA just feels like a much higher quality instrument.

[casbonano]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

the MIA just feels like a much higher quality instrument.

That.

I heard this so many times and just didn't believe it until I actually compared the two myself. I just figured that it was a psychological thing, ya know? It's mind boggling really, but a good MIM is a great, solid instrument, while a good MIA is a superbly crafted, professional grade instrument.

[ShowLow]

Originally Posted by Benton

I have a 99 MIM p that I picked up at a Pawnshop last year all dirty and neglected for 250$. I always wanted a P bass ever since I first learned on a 72 Musicmaster.

Neck is straight and I set it up to play perfectly. I did change out the PU and replaced the stock one with Seymour Duncan Vintage P PU. It gave the bass a warmer tone than the original. The stock PU was hot bassy and very usable. Alnico magnets verses the ceramic on the MIM. The tuners and bridge were functional so kept them as well as the pots and jack. I did however replace the cheap looking tone cap with a Mylar film cap of the same value and that made a nice improvement of the the tone control.

The bass is comfortable and plays beautifully and sounds just like a Pbass should. however if I was paying the $ for MIA I would expect some improvements. The neck is straight but there are visual flaws in the wood the should not make the cut in a more expensive instrument. The other thing I will replace are the pickguard screws which have all rusted definitely not what I would want if I was spending MIA $.

It is a comfortable and great sounding bass that did not cost much. I use it to compliment my Modulus Q5. It does something that the Q5 can't, sound like a P Bass.

Peace

Nice work! I found a similar 1998 MIM P in the used section at GC earlier this year for just a bit more. It was my first bass. Pup was bassy and hot. Neck was straight, body was glossy, and after new strings plus a pro setup it played mighty fine. I had my luthier replace the jack and install a ground wire for $20. I replaced the rusted PG screws and bogus knobs with Fender parts for about $15 more. Brilliant.

An older used MIM bass is what I would call a price performer. Those earlier ones may not be quite to the level of MIJ or MIA of the same era, but they are pretty darn good.

My first bass is now in the hands of a colleague who digs it a lot. GAS has moved me along!!

[mattattack187]

I was playing with MIA's and MIM Jazzes in the store today. The MIA's I played were def superior in Craftsmanship and Sound. That doesn't mean the MIM's are poorly built and crappy sounding. I'm going to be getting an MIM simply because I can't afford $1300 for an MIA. I will however though try out a lot of MIM's until I find one that feels and sounds right to my taste.

[lpdeluxe]

I posted before about my positive experiences with MIM Fender basses. The last two nights I went to our local hotel for their weekend live music. As it happened, the same guy was on bass both nights (first night, keys, drums, bass; last night, guitar, trombone, drums, bass). He teaches at the state U here and has a PhD in bass performance, and, as you might imagine, has some chops. He often plays upright but this weekend he brought his MIM Standard Jazz Fretless and burned up on it. I asked him about it and he told me that when he graduated high school, his father bought him the same model bass. It was stolen, and, once he had gotten out of school and was making money, he got another one. "I couldn't justify the high price of the MIA," he told me. "This one does the job and I'm satisfied." For what it's worth, he has a very high-dollar upright.

[casbonano]

i think a lot people need to admit that they are just spec/brand/gear obsessive. wasnt it the case that james jamersons bass was all jacked up? in that case what would your graphite this and compound that do for you. i mean really. and none of that, "well, you know, jamerson was a special case blah blah blah". this isnt to say that nice gear isnt nice gear and have its merits, but when you start saying that MIA's are OBJECTIVELY better than MIM's due to specs, then you're lost. your case for objectivity is purely a subjective expression. no doubt some people truly find their squiers to be "the best!/around!/no body is ever gonna keep you down!/youre the best!/around!" karate kid reference. sorry.

[cinnabar]

I have 3 four-string basses: a 1972 Rick 4001, a circa 1992 Charvel Surfcaster, and a 2010 MIM Fender Jazz Deluxe. I almost always play the jazz. I tested out several MIA Jazz basses but liked the used MIM better.

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by MoeGJBeener

I have a MIM P that I would put up against most MIA's. but I've also played a few terrible MIM's. I'm always impressed by MIJ's, they play like a dream!

+1 for the early 80's MIJ Fender & Squier Basses. I believe this batch to be the cream of consistency. Excellent workmanship. Top notch fit & finish. A joy to play. IMO you have to weed through the other stuff to find a good one, but agree they are out there..

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by casbonano

i think a lot people need to admit that they are just spec/brand/gear obsessive. wasnt it the case that james jamersons bass was all jacked up? in that case what would your graphite this and compound that do for you. i mean really. and none of that, "well, you know, jamerson was a special case blah blah blah". this isnt to say that nice gear isnt nice gear and have its merits, but when you start saying that MIA's are OBJECTIVELY better than MIM's due to specs, then you're lost. your case for objectivity is purely a subjective expression. no doubt some people truly find their squiers to be "the best!/around!/no body is ever gonna keep you down!/youre the best!/around!" karate kid reference. sorry.

Like this and agree.

[danomite64]

Originally Posted by RonniePudding

the rosewood fingerboard thickness was thin and slighly uneven...

My MIM Jazz fretboard appears to be thicker at the nut and thinner at the 20th fret. That's because it has a slab board. At the center of the board, the thickness is consistent. But the top is radiused, and the neck tapers from 2.5" at the body to 1/2" at the nut, making it thinner on the edge on the neck at the body, and thicker at the edge at the nut. It has nothing to do with the quality of manufacturing.