New at bass, 5 string dilemma, which way to go?

[Got2SadowskyNYC]

If you're going to tune it like guitar just an octave lower why not just get a baritone guitar? It's the same thing and you won't have to "relearn" the neck at all.

I went from 4 string to 6. It took me all of about 5 min. to "relearn". It's not hard.

If you're gonna play pop, country or rock you'll use the "B" sting more than you think. It's very common for major players to restring a 4 with BEAD cause they like the feel of a 4. So there's you some "professionalism".

[Chef]

"baritone"

yessir, that might be just the ticket for this gent, good call!

[edpal]

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

If you're going to tune it like guitar just an octave lower why not just get a baritone guitar? It's the same thing and you won't have to "relearn" the neck at all.

I think the OP digs the bass range, he's just hesitating on the 5th string issue. I wish the OP would give us some idea of what he plays so we could give more constructive thoughts. Baritone guitar or piccolo bass - lots of fun there!

Originally Posted by Got2SadowskyNYC

I went from 4 string to 6. It took me all of about 5 min. to "relearn". It's not hard.

+1 This.

Every once in a while I see a 4 that is really sweet and I think "I could tune that BEAD" - I live above the 5th fret as much as possible anyway. It's a comfort/speed thing for me.

I agree with all that think floating thumb is ok, resting thumb (permanently) is just silly. I use floating thumb subconciously when playing 6, just to reassure my brain of which string I am on.

[Tombolino]

Thanks friends! This is great feedback.

To clarify, I wasnt thinking of strumming chords with the high C, more like solos and arps. But ok, it seems the low B is more important.

Im still open to the 5er though it would take me a while to relearn to visualize with the B at the bottom plus reconfigure my right hand a bit and relearn scales.

Considering that most great music up to a certain decade was made/played on a 4 string, what genres/styles require a low B?

Im not so concerned with the comfortable part of the scales with the B string. Im more interested in understanding how often you need those lower notes on the B.....? How often are you all hitting the B string? (I wont be playing metal)

[dave64o]

How often am I hitting the B string? Often! (and I am NOT a metal player either. )

How often do I actually hit the B, C, C#, D, or D#? Pretty infrequently.

So then why do I play 5's? Because I have more notes available to me in a given position, meaning I have to shift position less frequently. Fives also give me the option of playing given notes farther down the neck, which has two benefits. If I want the meatier tone of playing on lower strings, I can get it. And, because the frets are closer together, it can make it easier to play some faster passages.

Just my preference, but I like the additional options I get with a five string. But I do have one four string, which I play once in a while to force myself to do the kinds of things a five helps me avoid. I figure it's a good learning experience.

[edpal]

Originally Posted by Tombolino

To clarify, I wasnt thinking of strumming chords with the high C, more like solos and arps. But ok, it seems the low B is more important.

Im still open to the 5er though it would take me a while to relearn to visualize with the B at the bottom plus reconfigure my right hand a bit and relearn scales.

Considering that most great music up to a certain decade was made/played on a 4 string, what genres/styles require a low B?

How often are you all hitting the B string? (I wont be playing metal)

You should let us know what you play - don't be bashful. Myself, I am proud to say I play Christian music on Sunday, hard rock/metal the other 6 days. Back on thread...

Arpegiating something like FCF(1st fret F on E) will frequently sound better and tighter starting at 6th fret of the B. And be more comfortable for your left hand. And for soloing that means you will already be mentally acclimated to thinking about flying up the neck - and not by starting in the virtual basement.

The visualization won't be that bad - in fact, might be a good time to lose some of the visualization crutch.

Scales - great for warming up maybe, but not crucial for most players. Some folks have never learned a scale and are just fine. Consider that on guitar you learned something very weird when you learned to play a scale that used your B string - that sucker is a red herring,placed there mainly to effectuate barre chords and a few open chords(mainly coincidence, other tunings end up with a few open chords too).

Genres/styles needing the lower notes: jazz, rock, modern country, rock, reggae, dub, rap, gospel, Christian contemporary(frequently,since they don't have organs in most churches). Many situations where it would be nice to have keys but you don't have them. There are more songs every day that end on a low B or even A. 5 stringers have been mainstreamed for about 20 years - they're not just some modern trend.

Tips: to avoid discomfort from a wider neck don't try to play in the first 5 frets with your left elbow down - lift it up a little so your wrist isn't as bent. Wearing it a little higher helps too. And a bass with the bridge very close to the end of the body and where the neck is cut in deeply usually means you won't have to reach the left out as far which will help for comfort. Look at an Epi Thunderbird - DO NOT start there, it has all the opposite build features, plus neck dive. Instrument with a longer upper horn will balance nicer and not distract you while you are learning. Think P-bass clone maybe. Not hating on the 'Bird - I own two.

[azzyrazzy]

Tombolino, what is your motivation for learning the bass? The answer to this can be used to give better advice. If it is to play bass in a normal pop/rock band, you can get VERY far with a normal 4-string like a Precision bass and using the first 5 frets

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by Tombolino

Thanks friends! This is great feedback.

To clarify, I wasnt thinking of strumming chords with the high C, more like solos and arps. But ok, it seems the low B is more important.

Important to some, irrelevant to others. People are voicing their opinion, but making any sweeping statement about what is best or useful is ridiculous. For instance, I play in 5 different bands right now, covering everything from jazz standards to modern pop. I don't own a bass with a B-string (I used to though). I do however gig my 5-string E-C all the time. What your goals and needs are should dictate your choice of instrument.

In my case, I wanted to explore a more sparse lineup in my band (ie one of the five), so I got rid of keys and guitar and made bass responsible for more harmonic content. To do that I need to be able to comp chords sometimes. I've been playing guitar for 40+ years and bass for 25+ years so when I decided to try a bass with a high-C I briefly thought about tuning it to B to mimic guitar tuning but quickly rejected the idea. The beauty of a bass tuned E-C (or B-G, or B-C for a 6) is the parallel 4ths make all your chord shapes moveable. No more barre E and barre A forms - if you want to play a barre (which you normally don't), it is just E shape).

Chords on bass are normally 3 notes, and with just a few shapes you can cover most tunes pretty well. While I can comp on my 4-string, the high-C gives you a lot more voicing options, and also a lot more colors. Playing chords down low just don't sound very good most of the time. You need to be careful and where/what you play. But I think they can sound beautiful on bass.

I know guys that would never play a high-C and that's fine. For some of my gigs I only pull out the 4-string - no need to comp or solo that high. I don't really miss the low B-string that much. I have a drop D tuner on my 5-string so that helps with some tunes if I want that low note. And if you really want to run a B-string sometimes, you can get the nut cut to accommodate both B-G and E-C stringing.

Bottom line is if you want those notes below E a lot of the time, or want lower notes available higher up the neck (e.g. F on the 6th fret on the B-string), then B-G makes sense. If however you want to play some chords and comp, then I think E-C makes more sense.

[edpal]

Originally Posted by nostatic

People are voicing their opinion, but making any sweeping statement about what is best or useful is ridiculous.

In my case, I wanted to explore a more sparse lineup in my band, so I got rid of keys and guitar and made bass responsible for more harmonic content. If however you want to play some chords and comp, then I think E-C makes more sense.

Your band line-up sounds very rare - you got rid of the guitar and pulled the bass up into that sonic range. So you would obviously be more inclined toward the high C. Which led to a....sweeping statement. If you had a guitarist and/or keys they would probably complain you were in their sonic territory, "hold down the groove dude or play guitar!"

They are all opinions, sweeping or not - OP still has to make his own decisions.

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by edpal

Your band line-up sounds very rare - you got rid of the guitar and pulled the bass up into that sonic range. So you would obviously be more inclined toward the high C. Which led to a....sweeping statement. If you had a guitarist and/or keys they would probably complain you were in their sonic territory, "hold down the groove dude or play guitar!"

That is in my band which is bass, drums, sax, and vox. I play in four other bands:

WCB - 9-string guitar, bass, drums
RtM - keys, 2 guitars, bass, drums, vox
SJ - keys, 2 guitars, bass, drums, 2 saxes, 3 vox
RCJQ - keys, guitar, bass, drums, sax

I play mostly 4-string in those, but I do play the 5 as well, and do some soloing and occasional comping (more in the sparser lineups). I don't need a B-string to cover any of that material. My point about "sweeping statements" is that there are always a number of posts in threads like these that state that you "have to have a B-string". While there certainly are some tunes that require it (if you're going to play the exact same line), I certainly have not found that one needs a B-string to play "rock" or "jazz". I spent a decade playing nothing but 5-string B-G so it isn't like I hate them or have a thing against them. I just found that for me, I reached a point where I wanted to start over on the instrument and went back to 4-string. And I re-discovered a bunch of cool stuff that often can get obscured when a B-string is in the picture. They are different instruments and tend to lead to different approaches. Neither is better or worse - totally up to the individual. But if someone wants to explore chords, I think E-C wins over B-G every time. If someone wants to play contemporary gospel, then B-G will win unless there is organ in the mix and instead they want some upper register.

Totally depends on wants and needs. And those can change over time. Mine certainly have.

[Tombolino]

wow, lots to consider, thank you. Since Im new to bass I dont now what Ill end up playing. I guess Ill go to the store and mess with the 5 strings.

[edpal]

Originally Posted by nostatic

In my case, I wanted to explore a more sparse lineup in my band, so I got rid of keys and guitar and made bass responsible for more harmonic content.

Sorry nostatic, but you did say you had gotten RID of guitars and keys in your earlier post. Now you have them back in all 4 of your bands?

Originally Posted by nostatic

Chords on bass are normally 3 notes, and with just a few shapes you can cover most tunes pretty well. While I can comp on my 4-string, the high-C gives you a lot more voicing options, and also a lot more colors. Playing chords down low just don't sound very good most of the time.

If you add a high string then the additional chording opportunities would come mainly in the lower registers, not the upper. Unless you are routinely comping fairly high like 15th through 20th frets. Which most find difficult other than double-stops due to the spacing. Granted, comping the same notes on different strings sounds different. I have one song I won't play my comp part utilizing the B string even though I can make the 5 string reach. Much sweeter on the 6 string with high C.

....anyway, I'll agree it depends on what you are playing and what your expectations are. There seemed to be a slight majority that seemed to think the low B was more useful from a statistical occurrence basis since you can't go down when there is no basement but you can always go up the neck. Regardless of how many strings you have.

OP is going to go check them out! PEace!

[nostatic]

Originally Posted by edpal

Sorry nostatic, but you did say you had gotten RID of guitars and keys in your earlier post. Now you have them back in all 4 of your bands?

Sorry, I probably wasn't clear. I play in five bands right now. One of those five is "my" band in that I handle bandleader chores and have the concept for sound and arrangements. That one has no guitar or keys. The other four bands (along with casuals) I'm a sideman.

Originally Posted by edpal

If you add a high string then the additional chording opportunities would come mainly in the lower registers, not the upper. Unless you are routinely comping fairly high like 15th through 20th frets. Which most find difficult other than double-stops due to the spacing. Granted, comping the same notes on different strings sounds different. I have one song I won't play my comp part utilizing the B string even though I can make the 5 string reach. Much sweeter on the 6 string with high C.

....anyway, I'll agree it depends on what you are playing and what your expectations are. There seemed to be a slight majority that seemed to think the low B was more useful from a statistical occurrence basis since you can't go down when there is no basement but you can always go up the neck. Regardless of how many strings you have.

OP is going to go check them out! PEace!

If you want to play a Cmaj7, I'll usually do that on the 15th fret on the 5. You can play it on the 8th fret, but the E string will start to muddy the waters a bit (or you can do a 3-string shape on the 10th but that sounds different than the 4-string shape on the 15th). Depends on what sound you're going for. I have little problem with spacing doing chords well past the 20th fret and that is on a 33" scale but again depends on other factors.

I agree that the B-string is about more than just low notes - it gives you extra notes up the neck in any position. Whether or not the sound of those notes works also depends on a variety of factors - mostly instrument and technique. Again, I'm just offering a personal experience of playing a lot of gigs that have not needed a B-string despite some saying that it is a necessity. As always, ymmv.

[SoVeryTired]

My experience is primarily playing in church, stylistically more pop and rock than gospel. I can play everything on a 4-string. But when I counted up how often I used the B string I think it was 13 or 14 songs out of a rotation of 20. I'm surviving with 4 but looking forward to the increased options a new 5 will give me. And the ability to drop a low B at just the right moment.

The little chording I do (double stops mostly) is higher up the neck. Adding a high string doesn't mean you'll play chords around d the first few frets - you could, but it probably wouldn't sound good. But you can get some great tones as you move up, particularly past the 12th. As far as fret spacing goes, it's still pretty roomy compared to a guitar.

[edpal]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

As far as fret spacing goes, it's still pretty roomy compared to a guitar.

True - but you have a much wider and thicker neck than a guitar, so more than double stop becomes problematic for many chord figures as you get above 12th or so.

You are in a perfect situation for a 5 - most church music is supposed to evoke emotion and those low notes rattle the body and soul. Nothing like having the instrument volume at about 6 and hitting a low B and then making it swell as it fade. You've done well when they sit there sort of mesmerized for a few moments afterwords.

[MysticMichael]

Originally Posted by Rockin Mike

I've never had anyone say the low notes made them queasy... Usually smiling women who say the low vibes affected them in a good way.

Ah, yes: The opportunity to tickle the lady parts of the female audience members - right from the stage. Truly one of the unsung fringe benefits of being a bassist...and one of the chief ways in which the bass is most meaningfully "a man's instrument"...

MM

[Tombolino]

I have been thinking 5 vs 4 etc.

I think I want to buy a 5er but a cheap one and fool around with it for a few months. I would buy cheap one so as to not waste time in obsessing back and forth for am expensive one and in case I cant make up my mind after the 45 day return period, I wont have to stress about it. So, which 5 decent cheap 5 string do you recommend? The only thing I know is that the less wide/fat the fretboard the better. Also, my 4 string has active pick ups so I want to get a 5er that is passive so as to also get to understand the difference in sound. My 4 strings is a Soundgear Ibanez.

Your thoughts?

Thank you!

[Chef]

If you like your Ibanez Soundgear, just get the 5 string version of that.
That's how I started. Got into a project that needed 5 string, bought a cheap 5 string Ibanez, played it for a few years, and then got a Fender Jazz Deluxe Plus I used for a decade or so.

[Tombolino]

I like it but I dont super love it. I would rather try something new than Ibanez and take the opp of the 5er as a way to also learn about the differences in the different basses.

[Chef]

Man, there's like a billion choices. Probably best thing to do is pick a price point and narrow from there.