New Fender American Vintage Series - Waiting Room

[Dredmahawkus]

isnt that odd they did the 75 then 74? is it the same?

[ggvicviper]

You know what? I'm really getting mad now.

In 2002 I bought a MIM Standard Jazz V new for under $400 (I think it was $380 at the time).

I even remember just a few years ago when you could still get a new American series for under $1000. In 2008 Fender got really price-happy and jacked up everything a lot.

In 2012 and 2013, the trend continues.

The MIM Jazz V is now almost double what it was 10 years ago, when a lot of other things (including instruments) haven't been jacked to that crazy extent over the past 10 years.

I was looking forward to another new Fender at the end of 2013 (likely a Pawn Shop bass), but now I feel totally disgusted with their whole pricing thing. It's absolute greed based off their name.

The most recent Fender legacy, G&L, can give you so many custom options at far less a price. Yet we're expected to pay crazy money for a '74 Jazz reissue - because CBS era Fenders were soooooooooo fantastic that we need to pay top dollar for a reissue - especially when it's more than the actual thing. Are you KIDDING me?

I was a longtime lover of several Fender basses - I've owned 8 of them over the last 12 years, including one or two not so wonderful ones (one of which is my dad's '76 Jazz). Now I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it to keep paying the company.

End of rant. YMMV of course.

[DeliriumTremens]

eh, I'd bet money the new '74s like the previous '75 reissue is a much better bass than the vast majority of the original 70s basses

[ShowLow]

Originally Posted by Dredmahawkus

isnt that odd they did the 75 then 74? is it the same?

IIRC, the '74 had a 4-bolt neck plate.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by DeliriumTremens

eh, I'd bet money the new '74s like the previous '75 reissue is a much better bass than the vast majority of the original 70s basses

I know you're right. It's still greed though. There's really nothing special about the bass that needs to put the price in a lower end custom-shop range.

[landau roof]

Originally Posted by cigi

First of all I would like to say I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but I don't really understand a lot of the remarks about this new series regarding the price. Ok 2000$ is a lot of money, but I can't imagine how you can judge these prices based on a pictures and some specifications on a website. If you see all the series fender updated the last year the quality IMO has gone up. The american standards blew everyone away, the road worns blew everyone away. Especially these last ones were shot down because they were "to expensive" for MIM basses, and they were just like the classic series but with a messed up finish. When people started to share their experiences with these basses we learned that there was more to the road worns then just a classic series bass with a messed up finish. When I got to play the road worns I learned in person that the buzz was with a reason. these were the only new fenders that came close to the sound of real vintage instruments. You can't say this about the classic series. If Fender is going to continue in this trend, the new american vintage series are going to amaze a lot of people.

I wouldn't be surprised If they would lean closer to the custom shop instruments than the current american vintage series. IMO it was necessary to update and improve the american vintage series, because I was alwas dissapointed when I played an american vintage bass from the current series. Especially in comparison to the current american standard series. I thought they were really to expensive for the quality you got. Buying a current series now for a cheaper price will be a good deal, but I wouldn't be suprised the new series will be a lot better.

Oh dear god, man. A 33% jump in MAP pricing is exorbitant. That is all.

[ggvicviper]

Sorry, I wanted to do this. Please don't hate, I like (and love) many Fenders. I just gotta let it out:

[David281189]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

You know what? I'm really getting mad now.

In 2002 I bought a MIM Standard Jazz V new for under $400 (I think it was $380 at the time).

I even remember just a few years ago when you could still get a new American series for under $1000. In 2008 Fender got really price-happy and jacked up everything a lot.

In 2012 and 2013, the trend continues.

The MIM Jazz V is now almost double what it was 10 years ago, when a lot of other things (including instruments) haven't been jacked to that crazy extent over the past 10 years.

I was looking forward to another new Fender at the end of 2013 (likely a Pawn Shop bass), but now I feel totally disgusted with their whole pricing thing. It's absolute greed based off their name.

The most recent Fender legacy, G&L, can give you so many custom options at far less a price. Yet we're expected to pay crazy money for a '74 Jazz reissue - because CBS era Fenders were soooooooooo fantastic that we need to pay top dollar for a reissue - especially when it's more than the actual thing. Are you KIDDING me?

I was a longtime lover of several Fender basses - I've owned 8 of them over the last 12 years, including one or two not so wonderful ones (one of which is my dad's '76 Jazz). Now I'm starting to wonder if it's even worth it to keep paying the company.

End of rant. YMMV of course.

sorry to say but you have no clue how economy works...
in 2008 they did not get "price happy", they raised their prices a bit and we got a much much better quality and much better intruments.
in 2012 we got costum shop pickups and the american standard line sounded even better, hence the price increase.
the quality of MIM 2012 is not comparable with MIM 2004, they are much better in quality and soundwise. 400 dollars in 2004 would be less worth than today. so the price also increases with inflation. that's totally okay.

and their prices are not greed based. it's just an aggregation of a lot of factors: better quality, better sound, better quality control, inflation, better materials used (pickups).

and that's NOT my opinion. that's how things work. compared to over companys their price increase was relatively modest.

[savofenno]

Originally Posted by David281189

what are you talking about?
thomann uk cyberstore has the american standard jazz and precision basses for 1160-1300 pounds. yes it is a price increase from the last year...but prices have been pretty stable for the american standard basses since 2008. 2008 an american standard had a price tag of around 1190 euros, 2012 it was 1250 euros, now with the custom shop pickups in the new american standaer line since 2012 the price increased to 1350 euros, for the 4 strings, but they were upgraded with custom shop pickups. that's totally fair IMO!
everyone always throws around with list prices...no one cares about them, no one pays the actually list price...it's always lower at a store...MSRP= list price and NOT street price.

for example the new Fender select jazz bass with active electronics, released last week i think, has a MSRP of 3099$ or something around that. thomann uk cyberstore has it for 1999 euros or 1662 pounds. that's a fair price.

i bought a sadowsky metro 4 string, alder body/rosewood fingerboard in 2008. It was a new one and the price was 1890 euros , if i buy the exact same model today at the same shop it costs 2580 euros. that's a big price increase in 4 years in my opinion.

there is really no reason to complain about a slight price increase in my opinion. it's not a cheap bass that's true, but you get something for that price tag.

Yes, Thomann has very fair prices for being in Europe mostly. Maybe that is the reason i have bought 33 basses and guitars from them during last 4 years?

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by David281189

sorry to say but you have no clue how economy works...
in 2008 they did not get "price happy", they raised their prices a bit and we got a much much better quality and much better intruments.
in 2012 we got costum shop pickups and the american standard line sounded even better, hence the price increase.
the quality of MIM 2012 is not comparable with MIM 2004, they are much better in quality and soundwise. 400 dollars in 2004 would be less worth than today. so the price also increases with inflation. that's totally okay.

and their prices are not greed based. it's just an aggregation of a lot of factors: better quality, better sound, better quality control, inflation, better materials used (pickups).

and that's NOT my opinion. that's how things work. compared to over companys their price increase was relatively modest.

I have a good clue about how the economy works, thank you very much. What you said about the 2008 MIAs I agreed with. What you said about MIM is very debatable.

However, unlike you, I'm not blind to see that this company is definitely greedy. They just jacked up the price of a AVRI several hundred dollars for some real nonsense reasons. The '58 isn't really all that different from the '57 (as noted by several people here), yet the price shot up several hundred dollars - overnight, mind you - to capitalize on the fact that it's "a new model".

Gimme a break.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

I have a good clue about how the economy works, thank you very much. What you said about the 2008 MIAs I agreed with. What you said about MIM is very debatable.

However, unlike you, I'm not blind to see that this company is definitely greedy. They just jacked up the price of a AVRI several hundred dollars for some real nonsense reasons. The '58 isn't really all that different from the '57 (as noted by several people here), yet the price shot up several hundred dollars - overnight, mind you - to capitalize on the fact that it's "a new model".

Gimme a break.

forgot to mention...the reissues have new pickups^^
well the price did not really change on the AVRI the years before that. it was pretty much stable for a couple of years...at least the jazz basses.

[georgiagoodie]

Originally Posted by P Bass Legend

If I had one of this, I would be so putting a peraloid white picguard...

I'm with you.

Too bad they are not offering the maple fingerboard w/blocks & binding with the black body, like my '74.

[A-Step-Towards]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

I have a good clue about how the economy works, thank you very much. What you said about the 2008 MIAs I agreed with. What you said about MIM is very debatable.

However, unlike you, I'm not blind to see that this company is definitely greedy. They just jacked up the price of a AVRI several hundred dollars for some real nonsense reasons. The '58 isn't really all that different from the '57 (as noted by several people here), yet the price shot up several hundred dollars - overnight, mind you - to capitalize on the fact that it's "a new model".

Gimme a break.

It went up from $1449.99 to $1999.99, over 25% increase.Minimum wage in Oregon went from $8.80 to $8.95.

The prices should have been , 58 P-$1599.99, 63 P-$1599.99, 64 J-$1799.99 , 74 J-$1999.99.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by savofenno

Yes, Thomann has very fair prices for being in Europe mostly. Maybe that is the reason i have bought 33 basses and guitars from them during last 4 years?

well thomann was just a reference here because they have prices in different currencies. but it's just my opinion, a lot of people don't see the value (not just from an economical standpoint) in an instrument anymore. in the 60s fender precisions and jazz basses were nearly twice as expensive as they are now.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by David281189

forgot to mention...the reissues have new pickups^^
well the price did not really change on the AVRI the years before that. it was pretty much stable for a couple of years...at least the jazz basses.

Let's have a look at some of these - a Classic Stingray, an L-2000 and an SB4000:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/...ic-bass-guitar
http://www.guitarcenter.com/G-L-L-20...GP&cagpspn=pla
http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/sb4000

All are reputable basses with great reviews. They're all also less than a Fender AVRI '58 or '63 - the cheapest of the pack - and have more features. There is no way these basses cost less to make than a Fender AVRI.

I feel incredibly confident there is greed involved in hiking these Fender prices. The new pickups are definitely not worth hundreds more - especially when custom shop jazz pickups are only $160 retail.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by A-Step-Towards

It went up from $1449.99 to $1999.99, over 25% increase.Minimum wage in Oregon went from $8.80 to $8.95.

The prices should have been , 58 P-$1599.99, 63 P-$1599.99, 64 J-$1799.99 , 74 J-$1999.99.

what has that to do with minimum wage?

[sigmafloyd]

If they play/sound at least as good the current AVRI I would take any one of the new AVRIs at 2k over a lakland at 3k.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by sigmafloyd

If they play/sound at least as good the current AVRI I would take any one of the new AVRIs at 2k over a lakland at 3k.

+1

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by sigmafloyd

If they play/sound at least as good the current AVRI I would take any one of the new AVRIs at 2k over a lakland at 3k.

Good point, but I'd still rather pay $1450 for the '57.

Honestly, the price is a big part of my unhappiness with Fender right now, but I'm also just let down from the offerings of AVRI. No '51-style P, no '73 P (I was really hoping for an unlined fretless). What's offered is way too similar to the previous AVRI for me.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

Let's have a look at some of these - a Classic Stingray, an L-2000 and an SB4000:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/bass/...ic-bass-guitar
http://www.guitarcenter.com/G-L-L-20...GP&cagpspn=pla
http://www.carvinguitars.com/catalog/guitars/sb4000

All are reputable basses with great reviews. They're all also less than a Fender AVRI '58 or '63 - the cheapest of the pack - and have more features. There is no way these basses cost less to make than a Fender AVRI.

I feel incredibly confident there is greed involved in hiking these Fender prices. The new pickups are definitely not worth hundreds more - especially when custom shop jazz pickups are only $160 retail.

carvin sells direct, therefore their price calculation is different to other companys who have to worry about retailers ect...

but let's end this discussion here. people who like them should buy them if they think they're worth it and those who don't think they're worth it have a lot of other options to choose from and thats perfectly fine