New Fender American Vintage Series - Waiting Room

[Will Kelly]

After playing and handling these at namm I am underwhelmed. The 63 feels nothing like the real thing imo.

They look nice but not worth the money to me. I also thought the sunburst finish on the 58 p looked way wrong.

[D Bopp]

Originally Posted by petrus61

Other than opinions being expressed, not really. Maybe you could point it out.

Sure. The problem is that you can't please all the people all of the time. Both points I mentioned are valid. I personally would like to see the rods in the necks. And I can see where Fender could really get down to every detail with the patent numbers on the logo and the Fender logo on the tuners. But what one person may want, another may think it's a dumb idea.
I think a few pages back, someone was saying they wish Fender would create an Am Vintage 5 string jazz bass. I don't think they should, but if they made that, that guy would be happy as hell.

[rmars]

Originally Posted by petrus61

I just wish they would put the posiflex rods in at least the 60's style Jazz's. I think they would really benefit from it. I know some of the previous 62 jazz necks were fairly unstable. I think the whole line would benefit from it.

I had a 62 reissue 10 years ago and I think the neck was made out of rubber! LOL! I haven't seen any shots of the backs of the necks but on one of the J bass pics it appears they are using nice flat sawn maple (which they have been pretty good about even on the American Standard stuff in recent years). I would expect it to be a bit more stable than some random cuts they have used for necks in the past.

While I like graphite rods it's not a cure all if the wood wasn't any good in the first place. I had a 2004 American Standard Jazz with the rods and you still couldn't get that neck straight for anything. One of he worst necks I ever had was custom quarter sawn J neck with graphite, absolutely terrrible. Unfortunately the graphite also doesn't cure the "ski jump" at the neck pocket that almost every newer American Standard with rosewood board I've played lately has featured.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by D Bopp

Sure. The problem is that you can't please all the people all of the time. Both points I mentioned are valid. I personally would like to see the rods in the necks. And I can see where Fender could really get down to every detail with the patent numbers on the logo and the Fender logo on the tuners. But what one person may want, another may think it's a dumb idea.
I think a few pages back, someone was saying they wish Fender would create an Am Vintage 5 string jazz bass. I don't think they should, but if they made that, that guy would be happy as hell.

I agree that you can't make everybody happy all the time, but if Fender is going to market a specific year's reissue, then it should be a completely accurate reissue to that year. However, there should be something about a RI that should separate it from the originals, perhaps such as an irreverseable neck pocket stamp, or whatnot.

If somebody wants a five stringer with graphite rods, then they need to realize that a '62 or '63 RI isn't going to be it, and to move along to the American Standard line, or otherwise.

[P Bass Legend]

Originally Posted by meatwad

I agree that you can't make everybody happy all the time, but if Fender is going to market a specific year's reissue, then it should be a completely accurate reissue to that year. However, there should be something about a RI that should separate it from the originals, perhaps such as an irreverseable neck pocket stamp, or whatnot.

I don't get it. Why they need something to separate the reissues from the originals? That makes no sense at all.

Fender doesn't make any money from vintage basses/guitars being sold on ebay, etc.

[P Bass Legend]

In my opinion, they made the reissues inaccurate on purpose, so they can fix the golden logo on the 63' P and get the propper tuners on the 74' J as a justification to rise 40% of the price on the AVRI line in 4 years from now.

[backup]

Originally Posted by P Bass Legend

In my opinion, they made the reissues inaccurate on purpose, so they can fix the golden logo on the 63' P and get the propper tuners on the 74' J as a justification to rise 40% of the price on the AVRI line in 4 years from now.

that reminds me, online shops in my location now pre sell these basses. and compared to the old avri the price raise is 0%. its still around 2400-2500$ dollars but at least we dont get the 40% raise. yey.

[Tvrtko]

Let me try to understand this logic. Fender spent 50 or 40 years to improve their initial bass guitars. With more or less success they managed to come to the point that either nobody is buying their guitars, or their guitars were crap. So, they decided to go back and try again from beginning. Except, this time, they want $2400 for the guitar, that was base for 40 years of improvement....BS.

[Britbonic]

Originally Posted by Tvrtko

Let me try to understand this logic. Fender spent 50 or 40 years to improve their initial bass guitars. With more or less success they managed to come to the point that either nobody is buying their guitars, or their guitars were crap. So, they decided to go back and try again from beginning. Except, this time, they want $2400 for the guitar, that was base for 40 years of improvement....BS.

It's about choice and Fender offering a range of options and price points. If you want s bass with the improvements they've made over last 40 years, buy a Am Std or Delux. Graphite rods, lightweight tuners, rolled fretboard edge, airline approved case, 5 string option, preamps, PJ config, etc. If you want a bass that is similar to Fender's original designs, get an AVRI. Certainly no end to interest in vintage style instruments. Funny thing is you can get any of them to sound pretty much like a classic P or J bass.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by P Bass Legend

I don't get it. Why they need something to separate the reissues from the originals? That makes no sense at all.

Fender doesn't make any money from vintage basses/guitars being sold on ebay, etc.

Actually, Fender has made a killing off of their own legacy in the last 30 years. And to make them slightly different makes perfect sense, as to not hurt the vintage market with a flood of perfect clones. That real deal 1962 Precision Bass, costing tens of thousands of dollars, is the perfect salesman of these 95% correct "Reissues".. So close to the real thing, it makes some folks want it bad enough to pay dearly for it. Yet, just different enough to preserve the exclusivity of actually owning a real one.

At least this is my perception of the genius that is Fender's marketing.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by meatwad

Actually, Fender has made a killing off of their own legacy in the last 30 years. And to make them slightly different makes perfect sense, as to not hurt the vintage market with a flood of perfect clones. That real deal 1962 Precision Bass, costing tens of thousands of dollars, is the perfect salesman of these 95% correct "Reissues".. So close to the real thing, it makes some folks want it bad enough to pay dearly for it. Yet, just different enough to preserve the exclusivity of actually owning a real one.

At least this is my perception of the genius of Fender's marketing.

you got a point right there

[sneha1965]

“Remembrance of things past is not necessarily the remembrance of things as they were.”
― Marcel Proust

[sneha1965]

Originally Posted by meatwad

Actually, Fender has made a killing off of their own legacy in the last 30 years. And to make them slightly different makes perfect sense, as to not hurt the vintage market with a flood of perfect clones. That real deal 1962 Precision Bass, costing tens of thousands of dollars, is the perfect salesman of these 95% correct "Reissues".. So close to the real thing, it makes some folks want it bad enough to pay dearly for it. Yet, just different enough to preserve the exclusivity of actually owning a real one.

At least this is my perception of the genius that is Fender's marketing.

And as long as the market goes up for the vintage instruments the more they can be charged for the newer products.

[drTSTingray]

Originally Posted by meatwad

Actually, Fender has made a killing off of their own legacy in the last 30 years

It's true that they've traded off their legacy over the last 20 or so years (not 30 yrs - they were v unpopular in the 80s) - I'm sure there was an article in the national US press recently which implied they have large debts - so perhaps their legacy is keeping them afloat - and the article suggested it also preventing them making money because there are far too many people who would prefer to buy an old worn out one (sorry, one with mojo) rather than a new one.

That said, I like these new reissues, especially the LPB Jazz, to look at - as with most other things I buy, I would prefer a new or nearly new item than an old one, so they're doing the right thing for me! I suspect the inaccuracies mentioned are simply lack of attention to finer detail rather than a deliberate ploy to make them different - but no doubt some one can enlighten us on that.

[meatwad]

Originally Posted by drTSTingray

It's true that they've traded off their legacy over the last 20 or so years (not 30 yrs - they were v unpopular in the 80s) - I'm sure there was an article in the national US press recently which implied they have large debts - so perhaps their legacy is keeping them afloat - and the article suggested it also preventing them making money because there are far too many people who would prefer to buy an old worn out one (sorry, one with mojo) rather than a new one.

That said, I like these new reissues, especially the LPB Jazz, to look at - as with most other things I buy, I would prefer a new or nearly new item than an old one, so they're doing the right thing for me! I suspect the inaccuracies mentioned are simply lack of attention to finer detail rather than a deliberate ploy to make them different - but no doubt some one can enlighten us on that.

The first reissues came to be in 1983, which was thirty years ago.

[David281189]

Originally Posted by drTSTingray

It's true that they've traded off their legacy over the last 20 or so years (not 30 yrs - they were v unpopular in the 80s) - I'm sure there was an article in the national US press recently which implied they have large debts - so perhaps their legacy is keeping them afloat - and the article suggested it also preventing them making money because there are far too many people who would prefer to buy an old worn out one (sorry, one with mojo) rather than a new one.

That said, I like these new reissues, especially the LPB Jazz, to look at - as with most other things I buy, I would prefer a new or nearly new item than an old one, so they're doing the right thing for me! I suspect the inaccuracies mentioned are simply lack of attention to finer detail rather than a deliberate ploy to make them different - but no doubt some one can enlighten us on that.

if you mean the new york times article you've not understood it correctly. they have a debts that's correct, but 20% of their debts were already paid of between 2011-2012. i posted a link to their finances and everything related to their finances in this thread. except the year 2010 they always made profit. the profit was small, but considering the economical crisis it was quit okay. in 2011 or 2008, i can't remember correctly they had a record year regarding sales.
just because a lot of people would prefer a 60s or 50s fender does not mean they wouldn't buy a new one...simply because a lot of people can't afford those.
btw there is no way they wouldn't make money because so many people just want to buy old vintage ones. maybe a lot of guys here on talkbass would prefer that, but that's just a really really small percentage of fender's customer base.

IMO the vintage old thing is just a hype. i played the 1962 jazz bass of my teacher and it is a great great bass. and i'm sure there are a lot of other great vintage fenders out where, but soo many of them a horrible as well. i believe nowadays the consistency of quality is better overall and that's not my opinion, that's what my guitar/bass tech of trust told me and is pretty much the consensus of the teacher i have talked to at my college (it's a music conservatory)

[PJRL]

Originally Posted by drTSTingray

It's true that they've traded off their legacy over the last 20 or so years (not 30 yrs - they were v unpopular in the 80s) - I'm sure there was an article in the national US press recently which implied they have large debts - so perhaps their legacy is keeping them afloat - and the article suggested it also preventing them making money because there are far too many people who would prefer to buy an old worn out one (sorry, one with mojo) rather than a new one.

That said, I like these new reissues, especially the LPB Jazz, to look at - as with most other things I buy, I would prefer a new or nearly new item than an old one, so they're doing the right thing for me! I suspect the inaccuracies mentioned are simply lack of attention to finer detail rather than a deliberate ploy to make them different - but no doubt some one can enlighten us on that.

I think what they have done with the new and old re-issues has been pretty good. Key details for the given model years are there. Having said that, they have made them somewhat affordable as well as giving the Custom Shop room to hone in the finer details, just like they have done for years. Works for me.

[drTSTingray]

Originally Posted by meatwad

The first reissues came to be in 1983, which was thirty years ago.

Yes I know, but did they 'make a killing from their legacy' in 83 - I somehow doubt it. The whole ethos of bass guitar was under threat from keyboard based music at that time and Fenders were really not a popular choice, many players wanting a different sound - active basses were generally what people used at that time to get that sound, or keyboards.

The American standard series is largely a passive Jazz or a Precision which, apart from details (some quite significant, but still details), emulates the ethos of a traditional US built Fender bass - and I have read historians say they believe that the introduction of these is when Fender got back 'on the money' - 90s I believe. No doubt the vintage reissues of recent years have helped this also.

[Britbonic]

Originally Posted by meatwad

Actually, Fender has made a killing off of their own legacy in the last 30 years. And to make them slightly different makes perfect sense, as to not hurt the vintage market with a flood of perfect clones. That real deal 1962 Precision Bass, costing tens of thousands of dollars, is the perfect salesman of these 95% correct "Reissues".. So close to the real thing, it makes some folks want it bad enough to pay dearly for it. Yet, just different enough to preserve the exclusivity of actually owning a real one.

At least this is my perception of the genius that is Fender's marketing.

How have they been making a killing off of their legacy? 30 years ago they came out with the first reissue series guitars and basses. Those came as a result of the company being essentially out of business and rescued by some key former employees. The standard issue products were a disaster and the now new management team wanted to show that they could produce instruments like the vintage ones that were highly sought after so they went back to the Fullerton factory, found old plans, vendors, specs, employees and built the first of what became know as AVRI instruments. While not an exact replica of original instruments, they were pretty damn close, especially in places that mattered most. They chose to make small changes (slightly different logo and other marks on neck decal) so people wouldn't try pass them off as originals. The instruments helped save the company as they showed they could produce stuff that was good quality that people wanted to buy. Pretty sure they were the first to do any type of accurate reissue and Gibson, Martin and others eventually followed.

I wouldn't say they've made a killing off of their reissue series. They probably do OK but they make their bread and butter from the high volume stuff at GC, mostly MIM, Squier and cheaper US made instruments. Their legacy, of course is that they invented all these instruments back in the 50s and 60s and people still like to play them so I guess they are living off that - as they should!

[sigmafloyd]

Originally Posted by Britbonic

Their legacy, of course is that they invented all these instruments back in the 50s and 60s and people still like to play them so I guess they are living off that - as they should!

+1