The Official Skjold Club (Part 10)

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Just noticed the zero fret. Not very common. I imagine that insures amazing action, but not sure why there is a zero fret? Can you help me understand its role and function?

Pete uses zero frets on all of his basses. The theory is that the tone of an open note is the same as a fretted note. Plus, some believe it allows for more even action, especially when set really low.

[GRoberts]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Pete uses zero frets on all of his basses. The theory is that the tone of an open note is the same as a fretted note. Plus, some believe it allows for more even action, especially when set really low.

Thanks Tom! Makes good sense. Rogers new bass is a stunner! Where do these live sonically? Are they we'd and modern sounding, or anything like a jazz bass, something different? All of the above? Completely it's own thing?

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Thanks Tom! Makes good sense. Rogers new bass is a stunner! Where do these live sonically? Are they we'd and modern sounding, or anything like a jazz bass, something different? All of the above? Completely it's own thing?

Pete's basses don't come in just one flavor. I have seven of them, and they all sound different. He can do basses which are in the same general sonic space as a J-bass or a P-bass (but which don't, IME/IMHO, sound like specific vintages of either), but mostly, he's into very flexible, very tonally balanced basses that can do a lot of different styles.

Closer to Dingwalls, maybe, than anything else. Maybe an MTD/Sadowsky mix, too, with some instruments.

[Freddy-G.]

Originally Posted by metallutca

Hey Vic, you look pretty serious here. Does this bass gets your approval?

dang. That looks like an album cover to me.

[metallutca]

Originally Posted by Vic

Absolutely without question! The look is because I wanted to get one just like it so bad, but just can't work it into my plan!

That's my guess

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Freddy-G.

dang. That looks like an album cover to me.

Photo credits to Lee Louie (BluesyCat).

[turbine]

Originally Posted by Freddy-G.

dang. That looks like an album cover to me.

Ay Dios mio!

[Steven Guerrero]

Originally Posted by Juneau

http://www.flickr.com/photos/blind_d...7632647350657/

Pics!

Thanks for the pics!! Makes me want to go!

[Vic]

Originally Posted by tombowlus

Pete uses zero frets on all of his basses. The theory is that the tone of an open note is the same as a fretted note. Plus, some believe it allows for more even action, especially when set really low.

Originally Posted by GRoberts

Thanks Tom! Makes good sense...

Just as a side note, MTD uses zero frets with guides (no actual "nut") too. So while they aren't as common as the standard nut configuration, zero frets with string guides are also not necessarily UN-common either

[Pete skjold]

Originally Posted by Vic

Just as a side note, MTD uses zero frets with guides (no actual "nut") too. So while they aren't as common as the standard nut configuration, zero frets with string guides are also not necessarily UN-common either

Add to the list:

Elrick and Marleaux. This is definately more common on higher end basses than production basses.

Another reason it is used is because it does improve tuning over the entire scale.

[TapyTap]

Originally Posted by Pete skjold

Add to the list:

Elrick and Marleaux. This is definately more common on higher end basses than production basses.

Another reason it is used is because it does improve tuning over the entire scale.

Pete,

In what way does tuning improve?

Having never played an instrument with a zero fret, the one thing that concerns me is string movement on the open string pitches - especially if one uses lower tension strings. Even with the string guide mechanism right up next to the zero fret, it still makes me wonder if there is not the slightest bit of change in pitch after plucking the open string...

I'm sure you would not use a zero fret on your basses if this were the case, but I just want to ask you in order to clear any misconceptions out of my mind.

[metallutca]

Originally Posted by TapyTap

Pete,

In what way does tuning improve?

Having never played an instrument with a zero fret, the one thing that concerns me is string movement on the open string pitches - especially if one uses lower tension strings. Even with the string guide mechanism right up next to the zero fret, it still makes me wonder if there is not the slightest bit of change in pitch after plucking the open string...

I'm sure you would not use a zero fret on your basses if this were the case, but I just want to ask you in order to clear any misconceptions out of my mind.

My Le Fay has zero fret with shallow slots in it that made the strings stay put. The main spacing is still held by the string guide (nut).

[Vic]

Originally Posted by TapyTap

Having never played an instrument with a zero fret, the one thing that concerns me is string movement on the open string pitches - especially if one uses lower tension strings. Even with the string guide mechanism right up next to the zero fret, it still makes me wonder if there is not the slightest bit of change in pitch after plucking the open string...

I've never noticed this... even on a bass that at least doesn't really appear to have actual "slots" carved in that zero fret like that Le Fay. There's a lot of tension at that point even with slinky strings. About the only way I'd expect to risk movement there would be bending notes in the first 3-4 frets. I would not consider anything else, especially plucking all the way at the other end of the string to risk movement there. That, plus, if the guide is cut correctly, it should give the strings plenty of lateral support to avoid that potential problem. Zero frets are not a new technology at all. All these concerns are well understood and have been dealt with for years.

[tombowlus]

Originally Posted by Vic

I've never noticed this...

+1 And I have a number of basses with zero frets. In addition to my Skjolds, MTDs and Marleaux, probably my oldest bass with a zero fret is my Acoustic Black Widow.

[R Baer]

Originally Posted by Pete skjold

Add to the list:

Elrick and Marleaux. This is definately more common on higher end basses than production basses.

Another reason it is used is because it does improve tuning over the entire scale.

Maybe it's a combination of different things, but I really noticed how "in tune" the first fret is on my Skjold. I've had a lot of basses where that first fret always sounds just a slight bit out of pitch, usually a hair sharp. Not an issue at all on my Skjold.

[Angus]

A nut that is too tall is often the cause of the first fret being sharp. I've noticed a lot of new basses have the nut set at the wrong height.

[Pete skjold]

Originally Posted by TapyTap

Pete,

In what way does tuning improve?

Having never played an instrument with a zero fret, the one thing that concerns me is string movement on the open string pitches - especially if one uses lower tension strings. Even with the string guide mechanism right up next to the zero fret, it still makes me wonder if there is not the slightest bit of change in pitch after plucking the open string...

I'm sure you would not use a zero fret on your basses if this were the case, but I just want to ask you in order to clear any misconceptions out of my mind.

There is no movement since the nut captures the string and it is the same as when you strike a fretted note, the note sounds true on the fret because of the tension on the string.
Even on a bass with a traditional nut the larger strings will go sharp for just a milisecond as the string goes to the opposite extreme of the pluck. B-strings are the most noticeable. You can watch this on a tuner when you first pluck the string because of it's mass the string goes sharp until it reaches homeostasis.

The way it improves the temperment is it is a fret with a crown and not a nut where the true note can vary slightly. Nuts can change over time as the string wears on them. The string may not be sensing at the exact point of the front edge of the slot. With a zero fret you get the intonation point at the exact point it accures in the scale because it start the scale from that point.

Some of this is splitting hairs but I feel there is enough overall benifit to make it standard and once my customers experience it they usually agree. Most of my customers, as you see here have other basses or have had other basses with zero frets so it is more familiar to them.

Thanks for the questions,

Pete

[Vic]

Originally Posted by Angus

A nut that is too tall is often the cause of the first fret being sharp. I've noticed a lot of new basses have the nut set at the wrong height.

Yeah, but that's not a technology/design issue when using a nut, that's just a builder problem.

I think Pete's points are probably more reasonable. If a nut is cut correctly, the string should break right at the edge bordering the fingerboard... but as the nut wears, that point can move back towards the headstock. Plus there's the other builder issue risk, which is they don't have the fingerboard bordering edge as the break point... maybe they "crown" the nut in the middle of the slot... that can be bad for a couple reasons... both for tuning/intonation as well as potentially buzzing on the open strings.

Anyway, I personally feel a nut based design is just fine, when done properly, and maintained as needed, but I do feel a zero fret design is better.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Vic

Yeah, but that's not a technology/design issue when using a nut, that's just a builder problem.

Yes, that was all I was saying.

I prefer a zero fret system as well, but both work properly when setup properly and work poorly when set up poorly. I've seen both.

[TapyTap]

Pete...thanks for the great explanations! This has brought everything into clear focus for me regarding the benefits of a proper zero fret.

Everyone else...also a big thanks for your input. I think I'm sold on the zero fret now.