The Official Variax Bass Club

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by Ed_Saxman

Right now I use only 9 of the 24 models:

The 3 "green" Fenders, both "Mantas" (musicman & Modulus), Rickenbaker, Danelectro, Warwick and Alembic.

Flatwound and fretless models seem unusable for me, almost as much as the synth sounds.
8 and 12 strings models might have some specific application, although personally I have not found.
I lost a lot of time with models like the acoustic bass Kay-M1 trying to get a usable sound, but finally left a vacancy in my top ten.

I think the Variaxes (both bass and guitar) have excessive bass even at position 50%, giving them a sound too boomy.

Most of my presets on the 705 are set with the parameter bass reduced to 40%. Some of them even lower, up to 30% (as manta or Warwick models). I like to turn up the treble to 60% to have a slightly brighter tone (although this may be because my strings are rather old)

In the settings of the amplifier (Ampeg B15NF with 115 cab and Shure 57 mic on axis, all modeled by the Pod HD500), I find necessary to trim the mids to 40% for better definition.
Lately I'm trying different settings with the tube comp (POD). I do not like the sound too compressed, but on the other hand, it is convenient for me to reduce the dynamic range of the bass.

Finally, when I have the sound I like, I add a very subtle (Spring) reverb, with a very short tail, and mixed in a very low percentage, that gives the final touch to the sound.

As for sound effects for bass that I like are the chorus and delay, although I use a rather dry sound most of the time.

I think you are spot on it's almost weird to be turning the bass "down" I'm going to take some time and set everything up and even if you can only get nine or ten sounds you like it still makes the bass worth the money.

[mongo2]

A main reason purchased a Variax was for the "upright" setting but I haven't been satisfied with it.

I'm using it with nylon tapes.

Anybody have any ideas about that?

[Ed_Saxman]

Originally Posted by mjac28

I think you are spot on it's almost weird to be turning the bass "down"

Apparently it could be, but we must take into consideration the whole chain.
I think the pod is itself somewhat boomy, lets say.. too generous to the low frequencies.
By simulating the Ampeg, (specific to bass) this is still more pronounced. I'm using the SM57 microphone simulation, which is the less bassy from the 8 microphone options available for this amplifier.

Finally, I'm using a pair of Event ASP6 monitors (200W), which have a very good bass response, and excellent definition, and sometimes wearing AKG K240-MKII headphones.

Despite turning down the setting "bass" to 40% on the 705, I´m still hearing the lower strings over-saturating with some models.
At this point I could not solve this problem in another way, trying different amplifier settings, EQs, Low pass filters ... You have to do these tests compared to the sound of a recording or other instruments, because playing solo is also very misleading.

I'm a guy used to hearing mainly acoustic music, and I do not like the sound of bass over-saturated. In a context of rock music, tastes may differ from mine. Sometimes I played with rock bassists who like to play with that huge ball of bass frequencies, but definitely not me.

Originally Posted by mjac28

even if you can only get nine or ten sounds you like it still makes the bass worth the money.

Of course! And even I'm happy that I only like 9 models. 24 are too many to dial your sounds, makes you lose a lot of time with xbullshitx instead of playing the instrument. In fact, using fewer sounds I'm getting much better sound with each of them. I created a preset for each one in the Pod HD500, connected via VDI cable for direct access to specific settings.
Plus I've noticed that is very different to play alone with your sound as you like, and how it will fit into the mix later. I like playing with the Modulus or the Musicman, but sometimes, unexpectedly there is another model that fits better in the mix.
Also, I think that I will take to repair my 4-strings Riverhead Unicorn to complete my top ten.

Originally Posted by mongo2

A main reason purchased a Variax was for the "upright" setting but I haven't been satisfied with it.
I'm using it with nylon tapes.
Anybody have any ideas about that?

well ... as I said I lost a lot of time with the upright, but did not get satisfactory results.
It definitely has something that sounds like double bass, but not quite. Also had to play with the tip of the thumb, because it has a excessive attack.
Ultimately, I concluded that this was a waste of time. Simply, this is not a double bass.

If you need that sound, there are much better things, like the Yamaha electric upright or models of companies like NS Design, Eminence, Aria, Landscape or Stagg, to name a few.

[mjac28]

Great stuff Ed it's so helpful for me because I'm still a Variax virgin and I'm still in the process of learning which models I like for certain music. I like those headphones you have are they comfortable ?

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by mongo2

A main reason purchased a Variax was for the "upright" setting but I haven't been satisfied with it.

I'm using it with nylon tapes.

Anybody have any ideas about that?

Have you tried playing with the blend knob the problem I have with it is the notes don't ring enough I use a Creation Audio Holy Fire which is a very round OD/distortion and with the knobs set to minimum it gives the sound a more sustained, layered effect. If you could find strings with more sustain than the nylons if thats possible ? Ed what do you think? and how deep can you edit the bass sounds?

[Steve Dallman]

I've gotten a lot of use out the the upright model, but I use roundwound strings. I have found that the amp makes a lot of difference, as it sounds great with some amps and speakers and not so great with others.

Since the model was developed, using D'Addario roundwound strings, I can imagine using nylon tapes (which I do use on my fretless bass) wouldn't yield a good result.

On another note, I did find the flatwound models to not sound all that great, but with the treble cranked on each flatwound model, they aren't bad. I programmed the treble all the way up with those models.

I don't find the bass excessive with any of the models. There is somewhat less bass from the Variax than most of my other basses.

[Ed_Saxman]

Originally Posted by mjac28

If you could find strings with more sustain than the nylons if thats possible ? Ed what do you think? and how deep can you edit the bass sounds?

Well, the main problem is that line 6 never offered a Variax Workbench for bass.

I think this version was planned or even partially developed but never saw the light. The proof is that when you connect the pod with the VDI cable there are 48 presets, as in the variax guitar. 24 "F" presets (Factory), and 24 "U" (user). This is very useful with the variax guitar when you use the workbench to create your own models, because even if you completely edit the models you can still access the 24 originals, in addition to the 24 you've modified. (This is only possible using VDI cable, a pod, and its editor)

I'm commenting this because I think the bass has an additional parameter, "decay", as you'll see in any synthesizer. In the acoustic models can be clearly seen as the sudden drop in volume is entirely artificial, controlled by that parameter. If we had a bass workbench could edit it, but it is currently impossible.

Maybe to play walking lines someone can get a decent sound with these models, but that quick decay ruins enterely the experience might have been. It's a shame because having access to the parameters this upright perhaps could have been a very good sound.

I have tried many things, with all the possibilities offered by the Pod to shape the sound, but this cannot fix the main problem this preset have.
Despite all, I guess I'll leave it with the other 9 presets. For some specific things can still be useful.

[mjac28]

I was reading that also and you put that perfectly that sudden drop makes it almost useless with all that time research and money they could have spent a five dollar cover and went to any Jazz Club and realized that sound was off unless some number cruncher said "It's good enough". I had never heard of the Variax bass and I bought one the same morning I read about one. I wish they would have pushed it as much as the guitar version.

[Ed_Saxman]

Originally Posted by mjac28

I like those headphones you have are they comfortable ?

Yes, they are. They even come with two types of earpads, leather or velvet finish. I have the EX-29 "Extreme Isolation" Headphones also. They are very ugly but not let out the sound, and fairly isolated from outside.

Originally Posted by Steve Dallman

I've gotten a lot of use out the the upright model, but I use roundwound strings. I have found that the amp makes a lot of difference, as it sounds great with some amps and speakers and not so great with others.

It makes sense. I guess those strings help, and every amplifier have different dynamics. In fact I have found that there is a parameter "decay" in the settings of the cab (pod), which together with "resonance" makes it sound a bit better.

Originally Posted by Steve Dallman

I don't find the bass excessive with any of the models. There is somewhat less bass from the Variax than most of my other basses.

This depends on your entire chain. In addition to what I said about the Pod and everything else, I'm usually in a small room with large windows. In this situation the low frequencies tend to spin very easily. Since I'm not really a bass player, I have not tested how it sounds live in other acoustic spaces, or using real amps.

Originally Posted by mjac28

with all that time research and money they could have spent a five dollar cover and went to any Jazz Club and realized that sound was off unless some number cruncher said "It's good enough".

Originally Posted by mjac28

I had never heard of the Variax bass and I bought one the same morning I read about one.

That's a real GAS attack!

Originally Posted by mjac28

I wish they would have pushed it as much as the guitar version.

I would like also. We will never know why they abandoned the project. Some say that there were legal problems, others say insufficient sales ... who knows?
At least we can still enjoy it.
Here is an interview with its creator: http://www.vettaville.nl/vvvinnymarcusryle.html

[mjac28]

Thanks Ed for the interview what a genius I'm still running out of toilet paper at the wrong time. I saw that Variax Bass and had to have it I have never had that much GAS ever.

[Ed_Saxman]

I have read that a developer is currently working on a driver for Variax on Linux!

http://fa.linux.kernel.narkive.com/9...te-sysfs-attrs
https://patchwork.kernel.org/patch/1787131/

This may be our last chance to access the parameters! I will write an E-Mail to Stefan Hajnoczi, to see if there are any possibilities for our Variax Bass.

[mjac28]

Ed that would be incredible you are the man sir.

[mjac28]

Has anyone upgraded to the latest firmware I haven't and was told not to bother by Line 6.

[Ed_Saxman]

Originally Posted by mjac28

Ed that would be incredible you are the man sir.

Would be enough for me to get rid of that decay in the acoustic models!

Originally Posted by mjac28

Has anyone upgraded to the latest firmware I haven't and was told not to bother by Line 6.

I did the first day I had it. In the screenshot you can see the improvements. I do not think anything bad happen if you do.

[Ed_Saxman]

I wrote to Stefan Hajnoczi, who has kindly answered:

I don't own a Variax guitar or bass, just a POD HD300. The Linux line6usb driver includes support for (parts of) the Variax, POD, and Toneport product families.

If you want a Variax Bass workbench you'll need someone who can program. Here's some information to get you or that person started:

Here's how the driver interacts with a Variax:

There is an audio PCM device which you can record from. I guess this is the audio coming out of the Variax.

There is a MIDI device which sends/receives MIDI messages. The workbench application probably sends MIDI commands to the Variax.
You'd have to figure out what the messages and parameter values do.
The line6usb driver used to understand a few of the MIDI messages - I actually removed this code recently because that functionality will move into a userspace library (not sure if anyone is working on the Variax library yet). I suggest looking back at drivers/staging/line6/variax.c if you'd like to see which messages people already figured out.

Here's how you can discover more of the Variax MIDI messages:

Get a Linux machine with the line6usb driver and connect your Variax to it. Then run "amidi -l" to list the MIDI devices and you should see the Variax. Then dump the MIDI messages using "amidi -p <device> -d" and you'll see a hex dump of the MIDI messages. It's probable that you'll see MIDI messages being sent from the Variax to the computer when you change guitar models, tunings, etc. Study these to
figure out how they work.

The next step is to take the workbench software and capture its USB traffic (for example, by running it in a virtual machine and using usbmon on the Linux host). This way you can see the messages that workbench sends. You'll have to figure out their meaning through experimentation.

Once you've done this you'll know the MIDI messages you can use - either by sending raw hex using the amidi(1) Linux program or by writing an application with an easier user interface.

And here it is the rest of our conversation:

> I think workbench does not communicate in real time with the Variax, what he
> does is a dump in one way or another. So I thought it would be possible to
> somehow make a dump of the memory contents, modify it, and reload it into
> the variax, or something.

The older line6usb code I mentioned dumps parameters from the Variax.

> When I open a .vwb file with a text editor (this is the way workbench saves
> presets) I see something that appears as a parameter list.
> The problem is that the bass is simply not recognized under workbench (it
> says unknown device).
>
> I've seen Workbench is made with Java. So I can open the VariaxWorkbench.jar
> file and view its contents (with pacifist). There is a folder called
> "modules" folder containing the "variax" (guitar) and "Variax Acoustic". No
> specific folder for the Variax Bass. I can see the code of .class files, but
> have no clue what I can do with that.

Line6 has stated that they do not want people decompiling their
utilities. I don't want to get into what you could do with workbench.

Capturing USB traffice is okay though.

> I think a bass workbench from scratch would be much more difficult, perhaps
> there is some other way. I appreciate any ideas you have about it, no matter
> what operating system. In fact, do not want a full editor, would be enough
> to change a single parameter (decay) of some specific models.

Keep in mind it is common to reuse code or protocols between products.
That means it's likely that the guitar and bass models use similar
MIDI messages to communicate.

Someone willing to explore and with enough time could take the guitar
MIDI messages and see if they work with the bass. Then you could
start changing bytes that you suspect affect parameters like decay.

> Anyway this is far from my abilities. Do you mind if I share the information
> that you have given me on TalkBass?

Sure, feel free to post it. If anyone wants to discuss more, send an
email to the line6linux-devel@lists.sourceforge.net mailing list.

[Ed_Saxman]

In short, I think someone with great knowledge in programming, a Variax Bass, and plenty of free time might do what we want. This is something well beyond my skills, that's for sure.

I have read the code of Workbench, using JD-GUI, but it's too complex, this is not about changing a flag or a line. I have seen info about the parameters, but there are only modules with specific information on electric and acoustic Variax guitar, obviously.

If anyone knows someone able to do this somehow, the Variax Bass club needs you!

Also, all of us could write E-Mails to Marcus Ryle, crying for a Variax Workbench for bass. Although I think if they did not at the time hardly ever do now, but... hey, we are almost 15 people in the club!

Anyway, it does not matter at all, we have a good instrument to enjoy while we can still do it.

Ars longa, vita brevis.

[mjac28]

Sounds like a piece of cake I thought it would be harder but seriously great stuff Ed I say we start an email campaign to at least let them know we are out here.

[Ed_Saxman]

Yes, it's the least we can do. Although that's what Line 6 people always say.. send your feature request here: http://line6.com/company/contact/productfeedback/

Also, if Marcus Ryle plays bass, I'm sure there is a Workbench for bass only for him somewhere.

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by Ed_Saxman

Also, if Marcus Ryle plays bass, I'm sure there is a Workbench for bass only for him somewhere.

You better believe it

[mjac28]

Originally Posted by Ed_Saxman

Would be enough for me to get rid of that decay in the acoustic models!

I did the first day I had it. In the screenshot you can see the improvements. I do not think anything bad happen if you do.

The last one it talked about the Upright did it do anything? They must have known it wasn't right?