PJ that works

[LutherHeggs00]

And it's for sale!

FS: Atkinson PJ4 with Nordstrand pickups and 2 band preamp



*** I have everything to gain by the sale; cuz it's mine. ***

[8liter]

Mine works pretty well.

[petrus61]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

That's what Fender finally did on the Tony Franklin.

I will say that this is probably the best example of what a proper PJ is and should be. I think that one shouldn't go into the PJ realm expecting a "best of both worlds" scenario...it's simply not the case. What you end up with is something completely different than what is usually intended in the first place. If you like the sound of a PJ, that's all fine and dandy, but unless you never use the neck pup on a J or like having an anemic sounding P, the soloed pups are useless in the context of their original design.

[dabbler]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

I don't understand why a 500K pot is expected to be an improvement when a ~5% rotation of a 250K pot off open causes the pickup to drop completely out in a passive V/V/T circuit, as it does on a HRPB.
That's what Fender finally did on the Tony Franklin.

A pup cutting out with that small of a rotation suggests wrong pot taper to me.

[Turxile]

Fender Reggie Hamilton Jazz Bass.
It's PJ, passive and active, sounds great in both modes.
Do a search in the forum, you'll find good reviews.

[Dbassmon]

This company knows a thing or two about both P & J basses.



This is a mod that P owners have been doing for decades, now you can buy from Fender in passive or active configurations.

[jlepre]

The OP never said a budget, but for about $400 the Schecter Diamond P get very close to BOTH tones. With the option to split the humbucker in the bridge position, it can get really close to a JAZZ if you blend a little of the P in the mix.
Pictured is my 5 stringer.
http://www.schecterguitars.com/produ...-custom-4.aspx

[Needenaneden]

Actually, I don't have a budget. I'm more concerned if the situation I'm looking for actually exists. I would just like to narrow down the choices to what works and what doesn't. Then try those out to see what feels good in the hands and finally, buy what I like the looks of. It might cost me $500 or it might cost me $5000.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by dabbler

A pup cutting out with that small of a rotation suggests wrong pot taper to me.

Sorry, but no.

It's just a particularly bad case of V/V/T Syndrome. Mere pot taper couldn't have such a severe effect.

Both pickups on full, you try to turn one back, it makes a strange wah-wah like sound and just drops out after very slight rotation.

You see something like this, though less extreme, with virtually all V/V/T-wired passives, and it's a little different with each individual set of pickups. People complain of it on Jazzes a lot. It's just a screwy way to wire two pickups. I posted an engineer's description of why it happens a year or so back. It was pretty much over my head, but the symptom is that the volume pots roll off more abruptly than they should when mixing and the tone changes when it shouldn't.

Crude passive guitar and bass wiring schemes never really work quite as intended, even a straight one pickup with a volume and tone pot, which is why there are always dubious "remedies" (like the Greasebucket or Delta-Tone mods as but two Fender examples) to get them to work more the way non-engineers would expect them to.

The more complex the circuits get the more mysterious the unintended secondary effects are.

[Scott in Dallas]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

Both pickups on full, you try to turn one back, it makes a strange wah-wah like sound and just drops out after very slight rotation.

In my experience, that's where the P and J magnetic fields are perfectly balanced. Notice the hum of the single coil pickup goes away at the same time. It's also one of the best sounds a PJ bass is capable of making. If you continue to turn the knob, it comes back. Every passive Jazz bass in the world does the same thing, they just typically do it when both pots are maxed.

If you turn the tone knob on any passive bass it makes a strange wa-wah like sound. A wah pedal is just a tone control with a foot pedal attached to it. I'd submit that you're being hyper-critical about an insignificant by-product of the sound. It would be like complaining about a radio that makes static as you're turning the tuner dial.

Back to topic:

As someone else mentioned, one way to try to duplicate a Jazz sound would be to put a S/P switch on the split coil, though my experience with Fender's S1 on those pickups is sort of meh.

A J/P instead of a P/J would be interesting to try out. It's sort of what Music Man's HS is.

[thiocyclist]

What is it about most PJs that doesn't "work" so you are required to get a boutique model (apparently)?

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Scott in Dallas

I'd submit that you're being hyper-critical about an insignificant by-product of the sound.

I submit you have no idea what I'm talking about.

[thiocyclist]

The VVT wiring effect is not unique to PJs as Bongo has pointed out... and I think it has more to do with the pickups filtering each other when both are full volume so the overall effect is some phase-y nature and a bit quieter than either pickup soloed. Whereas when you mitigate one of the signals to ground a bit more by the volume pot's turning counterclockwise, this actually results in a volume increase coming from the other pickup. At least that's been my experience.

[chuck norriss]

Fender Reggie Hamilton is a great instrument--passive & active.
Fender Aerodyne (jazz).
Mine:

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by petrus61

I will say that this is probably the best example of what a proper PJ is and should be. I think that one shouldn't go into the PJ realm expecting a "best of both worlds" scenario...it's simply not the case. What you end up with is something completely different than what is usually intended in the first place. If you like the sound of a PJ, that's all fine and dandy, but unless you never use the neck pup on a J or like having an anemic sounding P, the soloed pups are useless in the context of their original design.

That's exactly why I originally turned my P into a PJ in the first place, and I believe I have been successful with it. Neither pickup sounds anemic by itself, and together they get pretty close to a Jazz Bass sound. Not exactly, but certainly close enough.

[Scott in Dallas]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

I submit you have no idea what I'm talking about.

I understand completely what you're talking about. You fail to understand that it's exactly what the instrument is supposed to do. Whining about a "wah" sound when you turn the knob is moronic, because you don't turn the knob while you're playing.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

At least that's been my experience.

That's not what I'm talking about and, as far as it goes, that's a misunderstanding of the electronics anyway.

When the volume control drops out, it does not "come back" with further rotation -- it's gone, the pickup is silent. ~90%+ of the rotation does nothing at all.

This also has nothing to do with "magnetic balance," but with inductance, the various problems with which, coming from dissimilar and incompatible pickups, prevent the intended smooth volume roll-off from ever happening and instead produce strange tonal peaks and cancellations that can be either interesting or debilitating (likewise on the tone control, but that's a different problem).

If a volume control is properly working, it should have no effect on tone, obviously. They are volume controls, not tone controls.

But in really bad cases with V/V/T, as on this HRPB, the volume pots are when used together effectively neither and are completely useless except as clumsy pickup on/off switches -- and an actual switch would be an improvement. You certainly can't mix with them.

As I said, the trainwreck varies with the pickups used, but passive V/V/T is never that great.

[thiocyclist]

The volume does not "come back"...? You mean if you go from 10 to 0 to 10, it stays as if it were 0? I have never seen this happen once. Why would this even happen to a PJ? Their volume circuit is nothing special.

[petrus61]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

The volume does not "come back"...? You mean if you go from 10 to 0 to 10, it stays as if it were 0? I have never seen this happen once. Why would this even happen to a PJ? Their volume circuit is nothing special.

I've seen it ALOT...usually when cheap pots are involved but I see Bongo's point as well. Never played a jazz bass where one of the pickups went from 0 to 10, without a smooth transition, somewhere in the middle? Very common thing on passive VVT J's and has been an unfortunate feature on many PJ's that I've come across. Cheap ones and expensive ones. The Fender Tony Franklin is the best exception I've played, but that has a specially wound J pup and a selector switch to alleviate these "phasing" issues common with this setup. But hey, some like that kind of sound so more power to them. I like one or the other and if I were to choose a PJ, it would a Tony Franklin or a closely spec'd (electronically) copy.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by petrus61

I've seen it ALOT...usually when cheap pots are involved but I see Bongo's point as well. Never played a jazz bass where one of the pickups went from 0 to 10, without a smooth transition, somewhere in the middle? Very common thing on passive VVT J's and has been an unfortunate feature on many PJ's that I've come across. Cheap ones and expensive ones. The Fender Tony Franklin is the best exception I've played, but that has a specially wound J pup and a selector switch to alleviate these "phasing" issues common with this setup. But hey, some like that kind of sound so more power to them. I like one or the other and if I were to choose a PJ, it would a Tony Franklin or a closely spec'd (electronically) copy.

Yes, the point is that the TF actually works right is because DOES NOT use the crappy V/V/T wiring system.

THAT'S why it doesn't have all these problems.

It's that simple. Everything else is beside the point. Switch/V/T works, V/V/T doesn't.

That's where I came in on this.

If somebody thinks that it's awesuuum that his volume controls defeat each other and play weird games with his tone, he's beyond any help or advice I can give him (see tagline).

I'm out.