Played a 4003 this weekend...

[RickenBoogie]

The Horeshoe pick up, is actually part of that. On a normal Ric, 4001 or 4003, the cover serves no real purpose, but it looks like the Horseshoe. On a CS model, the cover is an intregal part of the pup, unless it's not a real Horseshoe, in which case, it's just a cover. I understand that some re-issue HS pups are built differently.

[SRCRS]

Cool I wasn't sure if the horseshoe had an actual effect or not. I'm glad I know now. So what does the horseshoe do then?

[PaulBoyer]

The CS (Chris Squire Limited Edition) has what is known as a "reissue Horseshoe" pickup with a pair of mostly cosmetic metal horseshoes wrapped around a modified high-gain pickup loaded with alnico slugs. The shoes can be taken off this pickup as the alnico slugs provide the magnetic poles. The original Horseshoe pickup had magnetized horseshoes, and if you took them off, you would get no pickup.

The 4003 has a high-gain pickup with a plastic "faux horseshoe" cover spanning the opening in the pickup surround. It can be removed without affecting the pickup except for some shielding benefit. Some players don't like the cover as it sits right over what they feel is the sweet spot for plucking/picking. Others rely on the cover as a handrest for picking.

[SRCRS]

Ok I actually have the 4001C64S if that makes a difference. And I take it since this bass is a Paul McCartney RI it does not have an Original horseshoe

[PaulBoyer]

Correct. An "original" horseshoe is a scarcity, and sought after by purists. But there's nothing wrong with the reissue or the high-gain.

[SRCRS]

Cool, thanks for the info!

[FunkRenegade]

IMO, the whole point of ergonomics is to be comfortable without trying or get used to playing. There is nothing subjective about a hard edge digging in to your body. Anybody can get used to something uncomfortable over time, but doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Originally Posted by kcole4001

`Ergonomics` is a rather more subjective term than many imply.
A Rick bass feels differently and often requires different playing technique than a Fender.
If one cannot or will not adapt their technique, then Ricks are indeed uncomfortable.

My first good bass was a Rickenbacker, so I`m fully in the opposite camp regarding `ergonomics`.

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by FunkRenegade

IMO, the whole point of ergonomics is to be comfortable without trying or get used to playing. There is nothing subjective about a hard edge digging in to your body. Anybody can get used to something uncomfortable over time, but doesn't that defeat the purpose?

Please quit assuming you know how it goes for everyone else. There is no "hard edge digging into [my] body" on my 4003. Maybe it's my technique but it just doesn't happen and never has. Maybe quit being lazy and resting your arm on the bass? Some stricter teachers will tell you that's a no-no. But sometimes I rest my arm too, so I really have no idea why the binding will bother someone like you and never even be felt by someone like me.

[petrus61]

My experience playing a 70's model (last year for checker binding, whenever that was) mirrors the OP's. Really wanted to like it, sounded great but at the end of the day, it felt more like I was wrestling a street sign than playing an electric bass guitar.

[Ric5]

The original horseshoe pickup was on of the first electric guitar pickups designed in the 1920s. The "shoes" are actually magnitized steel. Because steel tends to degauss over time leaving the horse pickup either weak or dead, the horseshoe pickup was discontinued at the end of 1968 and it was replaced by the high gain pickup.

[kcole4001]

Originally Posted by FunkRenegade

IMO, the whole point of ergonomics is to be comfortable without trying or get used to playing. There is nothing subjective about a hard edge digging in to your body. Anybody can get used to something uncomfortable over time, but doesn't that defeat the purpose?

The point is that not everyone finds them uncomfortable.
If your personal technique is such that certain instruments are uncomfortable to you, that doesn't mean it's the fault of the design.

I'm not talking about getting used to anything, I'm saying that not everyone has the exact same technique.
What's unbearable to one person can just as easily be a complete non-issue to another.

IE: the hard edge (I presume you mean the bound top of the body) doesn't dig into me at all.
My arm used to rub the lower bout of the body when I played with a pick (so much so that the finish got rubbed off down to the wood in one spot), but I haven't play pick style very much in years.
It was never particularly uncomfortable to me, though.

An example taken to extreme: DarkHorse made a bass some time ago that was built from scrap metal, masonite, and spare parts. The body was a very hard edged rectangle.
There are some 'poor ergonomics', yet the dude plays it for whole gigs sometimes.
It doesn't seem to bother him at all.

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by FunkRenegade

IMO, the whole point of ergonomics is to be comfortable without trying or get used to playing. There is nothing subjective about a hard edge digging in to your body. Anybody can get used to something uncomfortable over time, but doesn't that defeat the purpose?

I do not have the greatest technique in the world. But I have never, ever put enough pressure onto that part of my forearm while playing that the binding is an issue or even something I notice at all. This is the complaint that always confuses me, as I can't really imagine playing in a way where I would be pressing down hard enough on the edge of the body for it to be an issue.

For me, a Rickenbacker IS comfortable without trying or getting used to it. For me it's the most natural and comfortable feeling kind of bass I've played.

[AnchorHoy]

Originally Posted by kcole4001

An example taken to extreme: DarkHorse made a bass some time ago that was built from scrap metal, masonite, and spare parts. The body was a very hard edged rectangle.
There are some 'poor ergonomics', yet the dude plays it for whole gigs sometimes

Wouldn't it have been easier to just buy a Danelectro?

[WokenDeer]

I find a ric fits me like a glove. I love it, it never hurts me, just feels right. But with that being said, I'm the only person amongst the many musicians and even bassist I know that the rickenbacker doesn't eat up. I use steel round wounds too. So it's just a monster for anyone else. I kind of like the exclusiveness of it though, makes it feel like the bass chose me.
To be taken with humor of course...

[Alohavorona]

Ric was the dream of my life and all the listed issues were my disappointments too. I've managed, accustomed. It's just a question of time and wish. But the biggest flaw for me is the string spacing. Strings go in parallel, like railway track. Neck widens a bit, not much but enough, but the bridge doesn't allow to change the spacing. First I thought it's OK, just need some work with file, but nothing came of it. You can do it with high strings saddles, just relocate the string bed. Lower strings are too thick to make a new bed, new ones match with old ones and the beds are too big. And honestly, I didn't want to spoil the bridge in case I'll sell it. So colleagues! Any thoughts? Try to find new set of saddles (god knows where)? Or what?

[RobbieNuke]

I acquired a 4001 bass in 1994 when I was hired to be the replacement bass player in a band... it belonged to the outgoing bass player and I got it for $350.

At that time it had Seymour Duncan's installed and the pickup cover removed from the bridge PU. It played and sounded great, nice feel standing or setting, and easy access to upper frets. After awhile I did notice the edge where my right forearm contacted the body would occasionally feel 'sore', and the bridge height screws would make their presence known if my hand got near the saddles! But it was never enough to discourage me from the bass.

The bridge design has some quirkiness, but also is very cool and distinctive looking. Tough to intonate if changing the string brand/gauge. The Hipshot replacement probably works better for most people/players as a more functional upgrade and does look very similar, but I probably won't go for it until other items on my bucket list are addressed!.

At one point I returned the S-D PU's for a repair so re-installed the original RIC PU's and cover plate. I totally hated the feel/design of the cover; and although the original RIC PU tone was a classic, I preferred the noise-free humbucking S-D units. After about a month or so of the 'stock' set-up, I was glad to revert back to the modified bass I was accustomed to.

My next bass was a Fender Jazz whose contoured body was a great improvement over the 4001. Ergonomically, the Fender is superior on several key points except for the upper fret access.

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by Alohavorona

Try to find new set of saddles (god knows where)?

Hm, maybe Rickenbacker? Try their website.

I checked on mine and the string spacing goes comfortably from 18 mm to 16.5 mm depending on how you cut the saddles. Seems pretty bog standard to me... no 19 mm slapper's delight (how much better can that really be than 18 mm though), but I don't hear people with 5ers set to 17 mm complaining. I have played 6- and 7-string basses with tiny string spacing and I didn't even notice the change, so, once again, "What's all the fuss about?"

[Sartori]

Originally Posted by Alohavorona

Ric was the dream of my life and all the listed issues were my disappointments too. I've managed, accustomed. It's just a question of time and wish. But the biggest flaw for me is the string spacing. Strings go in parallel, like railway track. Neck widens a bit, not much but enough, but the bridge doesn't allow to change the spacing. First I thought it's OK, just need some work with file, but nothing came of it. You can do it with high strings saddles, just relocate the string bed. Lower strings are too thick to make a new bed, new ones match with old ones and the beds are too big. And honestly, I didn't want to spoil the bridge in case I'll sell it. So colleagues! Any thoughts? Try to find new set of saddles (god knows where)? Or what?

See, for me the string spacing and lack of neck taper aren't flaws, they're selling points.

I'd get a new set of saddles for the bridge if you want to try to widen the string spacing.

[RickenBoogie]

+1 string spacing and lack of taper are points FOR a Ric, imo.

[WokenDeer]

I 3rd that motion