Go Back   TalkBass Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Bass Guitar Forums > Basses [BG]
Register Rules/FAQ/CUP Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Supporting Membership
Thank You

Latest Supporting Member
Donate to Upgrade Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
  #1  
Old 01-23-2013, 07:16 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Poland, Capital
A point of view from eastern Europe ...

Hello all !

As I introduced earlier, I came from Poland, where most people keep saying, that during the time of PRL (People Republic of Poland 1956-1989) having an electric (and bass in consequence) guitar was impossible to have. This is the short story, that describes how the guitar world looked like here, in Poland "behind the iron courtain" ...

Starting off the early 50's was pretty impossible to have an electric guitar or bass, since it was something new. I talked with one very old guitarist, who said that some students of technic schools were able to use special tools and machines, to create some electric and bass guitars. To built them they got some wood, but some of the guitars were made from old wardrobe. There were no problem for guitar strings, but the bass strings were taken from old piano. The pickup was simply a microphone (or two) from the stolen phone. The frets were made from nails, or just taken from acoustic guitar, like other hardware. So, even during the beginnings of electric guitar boom, we had some people, who made their first guitars. Unfortunately, most of them didnt survived till today.

During late 50's and 60's a luthier Alfred Kopoczek, started to make guitars under the brand ALKO from the first letters of his surname. He was one of the first guitar developers in Poland. Here (31m) you can see the ALKO bass in the background still being played in the 1970's
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjLsAVFfiqw
And here Ive got a photo, that shows this bass in close-up. Unfortunately its been modified

His bass guitars are still sometimes present at auction portals.

In the 50's a Czechoslowakian factory Jolana, also started to produce electric guitars and basses, and of course gained popularity, even for many years later.

During the 1960's a Polish factory of accordions runned a production of electric guitars. Bodies were produced at DEFIL, that later took the production till its end in early 2000's (electric guitars and basses production end approx 1994). They were clearly made like Hagstrom Kent.

Samba

Lotos
These were first guitars producet massively in Poland. For most musicians there were also the only avaiable instruments.

In the 60's also more luthiers started to make their own guitars. In the following video you can see a movie band, but with borrowed real instruments. The bass is Jolana, the second guitar is ALKO, and the white guitar is a 100% hand made Fender Jaguar lookalike.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95jFGhp_Ck4

Even tough the iron courtain standed strong, there were also musicians, that actually had guitars from the west. For example Janusz Popławski (member of "Niebiesko-Czarni") has been playing his Gibson Les Paul Custom since the mid 60's. Tadeusz Nalepa has had an original Rickenbacker in the 60's as well.

Defil kept making new guitars, but after "Samba" and "Lotos" there were mostly less similiar to the western ones. The factory began to produce hollowbody guitars, but most people wanted the solid body ones. During the 70's more luthiers started to appear, and more guitars has been imported to Poland - mostly from neighbour countries, but there were also guitars from Japan. Still Defil was the basic instrument manufacturer.

The guitars from luthiers workshops were mostly always hand made, and contained hardware from existing guitars (Defil, Jolana). I got a hand made maple Jazz bass in my collection - it looked stunning when I bought him. Everyting looked much like original Jazz Bass, except the pickups (from Jolana Pampero - a bass version of popular Jolana Tornado), and a very crappy bridge. For your interest I can include a photo.

Some people, that didnt had a luthier nearby, but had a motivation, and knew how to use tools, created homemade electric guitars, also using hardware from existing guitars. There were mostly made to look like Stratocaster or Les Paul, when the bass guitars were mostly stylized for Precision or Jazz Bass.

Customised Defil Lotos, with new neck - Fender Precision scale

Time went on, and during the 1980's it was pretty easy to have an electric or bass guitar. Most good known musicians had guitars from the Japan, or USA. Defil as a cheapest alternative, was used mostly in Polish punk rock.

Defil still carried on, and like most eastern Europe brands, started to produce guitars, that looked more like the western ones. When Musima produced Action Bass (Precision Bass lookalike), Jolana produced Proxima Bass (Jazz Bass lookalike), Defil started to produce Aster Bass (Jazz Bass lookalike, but with Precision pickup). There were 2 versions of Aster Bass - the first one had a standart Fender stylised bridge, the second one a tune-o-matic with string through body system. Both versions were equipped in good quality pickup, with adjustable screws. Sadly, that wasn't enough for many people hungry for the west ...

After the transformation, in the 90's Poland had no official borders, and so the guitars from the west could have been officially imported. There were very expensive, and much people just couldnt afford it. Defil was still the cheapest guitar maker, but approx 94' was the end of bass and electric guitar production (in the 2002 there was the end of factory). The middle prices, were the luthiers guitars - now their prices jumped far away ...

The 90's were also the times, when most of the Defil's died by slow and painful dead. Mostly people hated every invention from these times, or just were badly customised.

The new millenium is the era, when you can buy a very cheap chinese bass - prices starts with 300 PLN, which is about 100 dollars. Mostly everyone can afford a guitar now, and there is no problem with purchasing one. Anyway, peoples choices, made the present situation - the guitars with soul, were replaced by a same sounding chinese inventions, that look like american guitars ...

The last thing that made the Defil a "bad brand" was the Internet. People who had a bad personal feelings with these guitars always hiperlatived them, as "the worst guitars". Mostly it was all about fat necks, and their delicate fingers, and weak hands ...

Defil still have bad opinion in Poland, but fortunately, prices of the guitars are growing, like the number of satisfied users. Personally I love every Defil, and I wouldnt change them, for any guitar.

The last word I'd like to say, is that even tough we can buy almost every guitar now, some of them, are still way too expensive. For example, I'm in love with Rickenbacker bass. I really cant afford even a Rick copy, so I decided to make my own Rick. I got the neck, and the wood for the body, and maybe during the summer, Ill start to make it. Anyway, this way of getting the guitar, you always wanted is not very often seen here, most people just dont mind the look and the sounding, only to get the bass that has a good opinion on Polish music forums (and most of them I find just ... ugly).



SO that would be all from me. A history has turned 180 degrees. When you wanted a bass guitar in the 50's you had to make it, you mostly couldnt buy it. Now you dont have to make it, you can buy loads of them, if you got enough money. I wrote that story, just to show a differences between the west and the east. We actually HAD guitars, and possibilities to create them - the main thing were the people, who wanted just anything from the west.


I hope you liked it, and hope to hear your thoughts !
  #2  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:27 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Nice post. Thanks for sharing.
  #3  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:40 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Brooklyn & Rhinebeck NY
Yes, nice post. Thanks for sharing. I spent time in Slovakia in 2006 and Albania (yes, Albania) in 2011, and am going to spend time in Latvia later this year. I have always found eastern Europe to be very interesting. I would definitely like to get to Poland - been close, but not there.

All that said - this bass kicks some serious butt anywhere:

__________________
Genz Benz Club #168
  #4  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:43 PM
96tbird's Avatar
Supporter
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Manitoba, Canada
Supporting Member
Very cool. I would like to have that Alko. Looks really cool.
__________________
Immigrant says: "Some fuzz be coo', some fuzz be trippin'."
  #5  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:48 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Charleston, SC
wow. very cool history there. I'd love to see a nail fret guitar.
__________________
Spector Club #124
Mike Lull Club #71
Wal Club #61
Yamaha bb Club #90
  #6  
Old 01-23-2013, 08:50 PM
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: St. Louis
Thank you very much for the perspective. Good luck with your Ric build. If you need any measurements or specs, I'm sure many Ric owners here ( myself included) would be more than happy to help.
  #7  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:04 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
I know absolutely nothing about this subject, and thank you for posting this! This will only add to the body of knowledge about bass guitars around the world. Thank you and good luck to you!
  #8  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:12 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Chuck3: I agree about that bass! It looks like Rickenbacker (think 4000), Fender, and Gibson had a baby together.

KISSbestfan: I forgot to add that I'm also a HUGE Kiss fan. Keep on rockin' brother!
  #9  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:15 PM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The State of Taxachusetts
Really nice article!!! :-D

I would think it would have been done, but really, how did guitar spread around the world? What was the pathway (like The Silk Road) did the guitar take through decades to be the most popular instrument on the world?

Google be my ally!!!
__________________
ERB #179 - Keep calm, and play bass.
  #10  
Old 01-23-2013, 09:32 PM
smcd's Avatar
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Boston, MA
Supporting Member
Fascinating thread! Thanks for posting!!
  #11  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Yeah, some Jolana and Musima guitars ended up around these parts as well (Romania).

I guess it's the same story for most (if not all) eastern EU countries that were under USSR influence: ppl had no access to the products made in the West (since the communist parties that were in command made sure any foreign influence would be censored) so they were forced to "replicate" them with whatever mats they could find. Or buy russian instruments that were built like their tanks: designed to last forever, but crude and ugly as hell and - preferably - way bigger & heavier (weightwise) than the original (especially the amps & cabs - you really don't know what "fridge" means before lugging a "made in USSR" rig)
__________________
The Ibanez Club #143 | The Soundgear Club #12
  #12  
Old 01-24-2013, 01:44 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
I love eastern European music (DDT, anyone?). I would love to get one of the handmade basses, for awesome factor. I've always found the odd old instruments very cool.

And now I must make an electric balalaika
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by bassteban View Post
Geroi for president
  #13  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:10 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Australia
Very interesting read.
  #14  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:33 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
Thank you!
  #15  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:43 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Münster, Germany
Hi!

I think it's the same story in the GDR til 1989:
the few music professionals had american or japanese instruments - for a lot of money.
They paid 20 or 30 times the price we paid in western Germany for it.

The GDR guitars and basses were all crap, didn't hold the tune, microphonic pickups, bad playability.
It was about the standard of the guitars of the 50s from West-Germany, Framus, Hofner etc. it was all crap.
Try to play one of those today, and you possibly break your fingers.

But there is one thing in guitars of Poland, CSSR, and Germany of the 50s: the design is fantastic.
So: to me, no guitars for playing but for hanging them on the wall.

Greetz
__________________
babab babab, bababababa babab babab...
  #16  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:47 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oslo, Norway
GDR = DDR = Eastern Germany (1949 - 1990)
  #17  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:52 AM
JimmyM's Avatar
Registered User

Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Apopka, FL
Supporting Member
Awesome OP! Loved it! More more more!
__________________
Ampeg Portaflex Club #1
Quote:
Originally Posted by beans-on-toast View Post
Tweeters are for the birds.
  #18  
Old 01-24-2013, 02:56 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Münster, Germany
Quote:
Originally Posted by odin70 View Post
GDR = DDR = Eastern Germany (1949 - 1990)
Or as some used to say: SBZ = sovjetisch besetzte Zone = russian occupied zone.

;-)
__________________
babab babab, bababababa babab babab...
  #19  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:19 AM
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: In the Pond
A wonderful overview of something I knew nothing about. This is an excellent contribution to the forum. Thank you for writing it up so well.
The look of the ALKO bass is fantastic.
  #20  
Old 01-24-2013, 09:24 AM
lomo's Avatar
passionate hack
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: NE US/CAN line
GOLD Supporting Member
Superb, interesting post renews my love for TB!!!
__________________
Some of my heroes: Jean Beliveau, Sam Harris, Richard Dawkins, Galileo, Hubert Reeves.....
LDS 15/6 FT/FS http://www.talkbass.com/forum/f127/m...other-1070563/
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off

Visit TalkBass on Facebook   Download our iOS app   Download our Android app

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:56 PM.




© 2012 Talk Music Group Inc. All rights reserved.
Play guitar too? Visit TalkGuitar.com
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.