re: Dating 1969? Fender P Bass

erposner · #1 06-12-2012, 04:44 PM

I am having a terrible time trying to date my Fender P Bass. Any assistance is appreciated. Thanks!

Here are some details and photos to assist:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/7538520...c02e93c83413f2

The neck plate has a large "F" and reads "274619" which should be a 1969 - 1970.

The neck stamp is in green and has some illegible numbers or letters. The left side appears to say "0166" although it could be a "01" then a "0", a "5" or a "6" then another "6". The right side appears to read "0161A".

The most legible pot reads "4250K AUD" and has the number "R1379718" which should mean it's a CTS pot from the 18th week in 1997.

The resistor reads "WMF 254T, .047 MFD, 200 VDC".

SamanthaCay · #2 06-12-2012, 05:05 PM

Wow that is a strange one.
Your bass definitely appears to be vintage but there are a few things there that I must say are quite puzzling.

For starters it has a separate rout for the pickup and control cavity indicating it is pre '73
the neck on the other hand has a stamp that coincides with being post '75
It also has a plug on the headstock which to the best of my knowledge was never offered with a rosewood board until the 80's yet it has the late 60's early 70's logo
also the pots date to '97

To me this looks like a bass assembled from mostly vintage and some new parts.

erposner · #3 06-12-2012, 08:22 PM

Thanks Samantha! I posted more photos to shed some more light on the subject.

Based on what you are saying, the body is pre-1973.

A rosewood fretboard with a skunk stipe down the back wasn't offered until post-1980 and the neck stamp is post-1975, so the neck is somewhere between 1975 and 1980+.

Elsewhere it states: "J. Torres is well known and his necks have a good reputation. He worked at least from January 1975 to January 1981 for Fender CBS (in the USA)." If this is so, then the neck should be from between 1975 and 1981 with a late '60s and early '70s headstock logo.

I guess the "F" plate with the 1969-1970 serial number is not a reliable means of dating the instrument.

It appears I am closer to what I have but the evidence still is not 100% conclusive. Any more tips are welcome.

Caca de Kick · #4 06-13-2012, 11:31 AM

To me, the neck looks to be from early '76. The skink strip on a rosewood board was common place on this era.
Also it has the TV logo and the tuner shape and R logo (71-76), all which were used up through mid '76.
But yeah, an earlier body for sure. The long G intonation screw and it always had a G-side mounted tugbar, to me indicates a 71-73 body.
To me, the neckplate doesn't match this project, probably was a bass assembled years ago when parts were alot cheaper to find.

erposner · #5 06-14-2012, 05:09 PM

Thanks Mike! Every little detail adds up to helping me date the bass. I hadn't even noticed the long G intonation screw. It's a shame it doesn't have the original p/u, pots and case but so far so good.

Does anyone know anything about the pick-guard and the thumb rest being below the G-string instead of above the E-string? I'm trying to figure out how to date the pick-guard as well.

Someone told me there might be a date number written underneath the p/u. I will check that and post as well.

Thanks for the help!

coreyfyfe · #6 06-14-2012, 08:16 PM

The neck stamp wouldn't fit this pattern:

Quote:

The 1969 to 1971 Neck Stamps Explained.
This information was provided by Greg Gagliano. The neck stamp used from 1969 to 1971 can be extracted by working from the outside inward. For example, let’s take Telecaster Thinline (s/n 272207) with the code: 3320119B. Starting a the right we have the letter B. This appears to be the same neck width code that Fender had been using since 1962. The next digit denotes the year, in this case 9 = 1969. The next one or two digits denote the month, in this case 11 = November. The first one or two digits of the code, in this case 3, denotes the model. For Telecasters, Telecaster Thinlines, and Esquires that code is 3. For Stratocasters it is 22 and for Precision Basses it is 5. The other three digits (320) are perhaps some kind of batch or lot number. It could also be the number of instruments of this type produced for that month, but I would suspect Fender could make more than 999 of any one instrument type in a month. Hence it is probably a batch or lot number.

Here’s our P-Bass again (s/n 277983) with the code 529129B. Breaking up the code we get:

5 = code for Precision Bass
291 = batch or lot code
2 = February
9 = 1969
B = 1 5/8 inch neck width (correct for a ’69 P-Bass).

But could fit this one:

Quote:

1972 to 1980 Neck Stamps Explained.
This information was provided by Greg Gagliano. The 1972-1980 eight digit code is similar to the previous 1969-1971 system. Example, Music Master (s/n 595121) with code 49002153. The first 6 digits are paired off and the last two digits are taken singly. So that gives us 49 00 215 3 where:

49 = model code (Musicmaster, Mustang, Bronco)
00 = neck code (rosewood fingerboard)
21 = week code (week 21)
5 = year code (1975)
3 = day of the week code (Wednesday)

Model Codes Used from 1972 to 1980.
Model codes (first pair of digits):
01 = Precision Bass
02 = Jazz Bass
04 = Mustang Bass
08 = Telecaster Deluxe
09 = Stratocaster
13 = Telecaster, Telecaster Custom, Telecaster Thinline
49 = Musicmaster, Mustang, Bronco

Neck Codes Used from 1972 to 1980.
Neck codes (second pair of digits):
00 = rosewood fingerboard
01 = rosewood fingerboard
03 = fretted maple neck OR skunk stripe neck with rosewood board
10 = fretless maple neck

Which would put it at a 76 and code for a rosewood P bass neck.

erposner · #7 06-14-2012, 10:24 PM

Thanks Corey!

So for my neck no. 0106-0161 A, using this system it would be:

01 = Precision Bass
06 = What does this number code refer to? It could be 06 or 08
01 = Week Code : week 01
6 = Year Code : 1976
1 = Day of the Week Code : Monday
A = width of neck at nut : 1 1/2"

1976 checks out using this system except for the 3rd and 4th digit, which are questionable.

Thanks!

coreyfyfe · #8 06-15-2012, 06:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by erposner

06 = What does this number code refer to? It could be 06 or

I thought you had said 0101, which would be p bass, rosewood. I suppose it could be 0103 which would be skunk stripe on rosewood which this neck is, but it's a bit hard to tell.

erposner · #9 06-15-2012, 09:41 AM

Thanks again Corey! 0103 makes total sense . . . I think you nailed it.

Any ideas on how to date the "tortoise shell" pick-guard with a thumb rest below the G-string?

coreyfyfe · #10 06-15-2012, 09:49 AM

The tug bar mounting (below strings) would be period correct and fit with the extended G saddle screw which points towards a 69/70 body. If the pickguard is period correct, the color should be tort/w/b/w I believe (which this is) and I believe the amount of foil on the back is correct for late 60s/early 70s. When the serial number moved the the headstock they started putting serial number stickers under the pickguard as well, but I'm not sure about before that. I'm not as good with these as some of these other guys so I'm sure someone will be along to correct me if I'm wrong but the guard seems like it likely could be original to the body.