Ric 4003 NBD Letdown

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by MKA

Reading this thread I think it is amazing how a brand new so called "quality" bass needs this much work to play well.

A lot of guitars and basses come from the factory with the nut too high. I actually have a zero fret instrument. It is an acoustic guitar from the 60s. It is a joy to play. If you play a guitar with the nut that is too high it will seem always out of tune because when you play chords that combine open and fretted strings the fretted strings will be sharp. Now on a bass we don't normally play 5 and 6 note chords but we have fat strings and it is easier to play if the nut is set to zero fret height. The best nut design is the Warwick adjustable nut. All basses ahould come this way in the 21st century. Nut height is quite often over-looked in bass set ups, but it can make a big difference.

Rickenbacker is being conservative by making the nut high. The specs on their necks is that they are to be set flat. So a Rickenbacker bass leaves the factory in California where it is dry and it goes to Lousiana where it is very humid. The neck will go backbow due to humidity without a small neck adjustment. The higher nut will allow some changes like that and still be playable. The old Rick necks moved less with humidity changes but they were a pain to adjust. The newer neck are easy to adjust but they also move more with humidity changes.

So taking all of this into account ... I like to lower the strings at the nut on my Rick basses. For me it plays better

Some basses come with lower nuts but they specify the neck be set up with more relief.

[Pbass4003]

I want to lay this whole nut issue to rest (at least regarding my OP). I should have made it clear I never complained about nut height. What I pointed out was the nut not sitting correctly on the headstock. Take a close look at the posted pic again (zoom in). See how there is a gap of a few mm under the nut and how it rests at a slight angle? This is what I was talking about since day 1. This is what to me is inexcusable. Sure I can get the nut filed—no problem—done! File the nut down all you want and it's still not going to rest in that narrow plane. THIS is what was wrong with the first 2 basses (in addition to the binding chip on the first and the misalignment on the second).

This can't be normal. Am I missing something?

[kcole4001]

Definitely not right, but an easy fix.

The side to side spacing was obviously a more serious problem.
Easy to correct if it's a problem with the nut being badly cut or off centre, but if the mounting holes for the bridge wer mis-drilled, then it's a bigger issue.

Still pretty easy to fix, but you certainly shouldn't have to.

[kcole4001]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

+1

I think I've run across a couple 4001s that hit or barely exceeded 10 pounds.

I have a 1977 4001 that weighs in at 10.631lbs, but some of that is a Hipshot brass bridge.
My 2010 4003 weighs 9.33lbs.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Pbass4003

I want to lay this whole nut issue to rest (at least regarding my OP). I should have made it clear I never complained about nut height. What I pointed out was the nut not sitting correctly on the headstock. Take a close look at the posted pic again (zoom in). See how there is a gap of a few mm under the nut and how it rests at a slight angle? This is what I was talking about since day 1. This is what to me is inexcusable. Sure I can get the nut filed—no problem—done! File the nut down all you want and it's still not going to rest in that narrow plane. THIS is what was wrong with the first 2 basses (in addition to the binding chip on the first and the misalignment on the second).

This can't be normal. Am I missing something?

That bass looks to have been modified by a previous owner, and then sent back to the online seller.

But still ... I would have fixed it myself ...

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by kcole4001

Definitely not right, but an easy fix.

A very easy fix.

[Pbass4003]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

A very easy fix.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

A very easy fix.

Something I've had to get my head around since joining TB and reading threads like this is, there are a variety of consumers, with a variety of attitudes, needs, and expectations.

There is the consumer who will do a little DIY, make the product perfect, call it a good thing and reap the rewards.

There is the consumer who expects the product perfect the moment it comes out of the box, and if it's not, holds the manufacturer accountable.

I've resigned myself to believing that neither one is right or wrong. They just have different approaches and expectations.

I do know this: Most of the time, when I play guitar roulette and do the switcheroo thing hoping I end up with a perfect bass, I usually end up wishing I had kept one of the previous basses I returned and just did the relatively small amount of DIY it took to make it a great bass. I've jumped out of the frying pan into the fire many times in this respect at the cost of a lot of time, effort, frustration, and disappointment.

When I'm on the fence about something, I have used small imperfections to justify my buyer's remorse. But when I'm seriously enthused about a bass or guitar, there comes a point where I stop fooling around with playing the roulette blame game, correct the small flaw with my own resources, and get on with the pleasurable task of playing and enjoying the instrument.

I guess I've seen a lot of imperfections in a lot of different guitars and basses over the years.

However, I do understand that others will not feel this way.

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by Pbass4003

Do you though? If that bugged you all you had to do was just tap the nut out of its slot and re-seat it with a tiny drop of superglue, if it would have even taken that much effort. It might have been loose enough you could have just jostled it around until it seated more evenly. Anyway, another non-issue from what I can tell.

[Addison]

I'm sorry, but these pictures I'm seeing are not "non-issues."

It's a $1500 bass coming from a company with one of the deepest, richest, and most important legacies in musical instrument manufacturing.

That kind of sloppy manufacturing and the following shoddy QC that let that bass go out the door is simply unacceptable in my opinion.

$300 Indonesian bass? Yeah, OK... I can deal with stuff like an off-center bridge install and a poorly set/cut nut on a bass like that. Those basses make great project basses.

A $1500 USA-made Rickenbacker bass IS NOT a project bass... and, if they're having so much trouble keeping up with orders that they can't set a nut or align a bridge properly, then they need to raise their prices so they can start spending more time on their manufacturing and quality control processes.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Addison

A $1500 USA-made Rickenbacker bass IS NOT a project bass... and, if they're having so much trouble keeping up with orders that they can't set a nut or align a bridge properly, then they need to raise their prices so they can start spending more time on their manufacturing and quality control processes.

Though I agree with the spirit of your post, I have yet to see proof-positive that the bridge is not set correctly.

This accusation gets thrown around a lot when strings don't align perfectly on the fretboard or perfectly over the pole pieces, but in my experience, those issues are never the result of a mis-aligned bridge. There are other explanations, and I agree that they should be taking more time with the nut, but I'm far from convinced it's a mis-aligned bridge.

[Addison]

Ok, I will give you that... there isn't any solid proof that it's the bridge, and I'm only speculating.

The thing that makes me think it's the bridge is the amount that it's off... I've seen poorly cut nuts pull the G string close to the fret edges in the lower registers of the fingerboard, but I've never seen a nut cut so bad that the misalignment is that pronounced all the way down fingerboard and into the pickup pole pieces.

And I understand that every string won't always line up exactly over every pole piece... but, to me, there is something very "off" about those pics.

[Addison]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

Did you try Wildwood? They ask a lot, lot less than that for righties.

Just received a quote back from these guys and it's a hair under the lowest price I've seen and "include[s] UPS Ground shipping with it and [their] techs inspect it and set it up before [they] ship."

So, it's not a lot, lot less... but it's a couple of fancy coffees.

Hmmm...

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Addison

Ok, I will give you that... there isn't any solid proof that it's the bridge, and I'm only speculating.

The thing that makes me think it's the bridge is the amount that it's off... I've seen poorly cut nuts pull the G string close to the fret edges in the lower registers of the fingerboard, but I've never seen a nut cut so bad that the misalignment is that pronounced all the way down fingerboard and into the pickup pole pieces.

And I understand that every string won't always line up exactly over every pole piece... but, to me, there is something very "off" about those pics.

I've seen extremes of saddle/bridge height cause the optical illusion that the bridge is off-center. As soon as I lowered the action and set the intonation correctly, the strings were much more aligned on the fretboard.

Without having the bass in our hands, and calipers and measuring tools, it's a bit of wild speculation. But, again IME, it's never the placement of the bridge, at least not with nearly the frequency that this gets suggested here on TB.

[Addison]

I can hang with that assessment.

[Pbass4003]

Like I said, I've learned a lot from this thread that will put my replacement in a new light. I also found a good tech to set it up. I can set up my own Fenders, but I need someone to demystify the dual truss system for this first go.

Do I need to buy a special Ric truss tool to make my own adjustments? I know PotR sells them, but I'm not too sure if this something I need to buy or if my metric tool kit will do the trick.

[electracoyote]

Originally Posted by Pbass4003

Like I said, I've learned a lot from this thread that will put my replacement in a new light. I also found a good tech to set it up. I can set up my own Fenders, but I need someone to demystify the dual truss system for this first go.

Do I need to buy a special Ric truss tool to make my own adjustments? I know PotR sells them, but I'm not too sure if this something I need to buy or if my metric tool kit will do the trick.

Good move with getting an experienced tech to help you with your new Ric. Pick his brain while you're at it.

You need a 1/4" nut driver of the thin-walled variety. Best bet is to buy it from the dealer, that way you can rest assured it's the right one, but they do sell them at hardware stores.

Wishing you only the best with your Ric. Like most Ric players, I also found there was a bit of a learning curve getting into one of these, but IMHO, the effort is a very small price to pay for the enormous return on the investment.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by thiocyclist

A very easy fix.

The nut is the cheapest and easiest part of the bass to replace.

[willsellout]

Originally Posted by Ric5

The nut is the cheapest and easiest part of the bass to replace.

I disagree. There's a lot that goes into cutting a new nut. It's not anything I would call "easy". To have a tech do it will run you 50-75.00 as well, so it's not that cheap either. The only time it's "cheap" is if you have invested in the tools to do it yourself, in which case it only costs a few bucks and an hour of your time. But then you have to factor in the cost of the tools.

In this case though, all it would have taken is a file to level and clean the nut slot, and a drop of glue.

[thiocyclist]

Originally Posted by willsellout

To have a tech do it will run you 50-75.00 as well, so it's not that cheap either.

That's a lot more expensive than what my tech charges, and he's great. Plus, I generally do my own nut work until I need his expertise brought in--it's not hard. $50-75 is something people will charge if they know they can take advantage of someone, or that's my assessment at least.