Ric 4003 NBD Letdown

[mellowinman]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

Whenever I get sucked into reading these Rickenbacker threads, I usually get angry because it seems like a lot of the problems don't just come from the "RIC hating trolls", but sometimes the fanboys themselves that can't seem to get along...

OP - I'm sorry to hear about all your Ricky woes. I want to make you an offer since you're local...

I live in Brooklyn, and when I'm finished with this post, I'm heading to Fresh Meadows to spend the weekend with my girlfriend. A few weeks ago I went on a hunt to try a few decent Rickys in Manhattan while I had time off. I went to Sam Ash, and their Rickenbackers were either poorly set up, or had a pickup issue. I also went across the street to Rudy's and tried their 4003. A much better specimen, but still left something to be desired. Finally, I went to 30th street guitars...

They had several used Rics, but I found this 4003 from the late 80s in the natural finish with the black guard and truss cover. I felt like it was the best Ric I'd ever played in a store. No push-pull, it was old school. I couldn't put it down for a good 15 minutes.

If you are still unhappy by Monday, I would personally meet you at 30th street guitars to show you the Ric I liked a lot. I always like to help with instrument purchases, would like to meet some of my TB brethern, and I really wanted someone to have this Ric (hopefully its still there)...

Lemme know if interested!

Definitely one of the more productive posts on TalkBass.

[willsellout]

My Ric is definitely not perfect, but I'll be damned if it isn't perfect.

[greggster59]

Ric basses are one of a type where, when it's done right, the interaction and results from them are sublime and when they are not right they are a major disappointment.
There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with them in my limited experience. Glad I got a good one.

[Coolhandjjl]

Originally Posted by greggster59

Ric basses are one of a type where, when it's done right, the interaction and results from them are sublime and when they are not right they are a major disappointment.
There doesn't seem to be any middle ground with them in my limited experience. Glad I got a good one.

There is lot of truth to that. I'm a commercial photographer by trade. I had been using some Zeiss lenses for a while. Made in Germany with über glass, übre engineering, etc. When they are properly adjusted, there is absolutely nothing like them. But if they are merely hair off perfect adjustment, they quickly become everyone's whipping boy.

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Ric5

Ya ... there is a pattern to these threads ...

1 - I got a new Rickenbacker and it was not made of flawless gold and diamonds.
2 - I will send it back
3 - Then Rick haters chime in
4 - Ricks have binding
5 - they are different from Fenders
6 - they are imperfect
7 - they are total crap

etc ...

Wait, you forgot the step where the Ric fans claim that all production basses have these massive issues....then extol the virtures of J Hall's "perfectly flat" setup.

[Kopfjaeger]

Originally Posted by Pbass4003

I want to lay this whole nut issue to rest (at least regarding my OP). I should have made it clear I never complained about nut height. What I pointed out was the nut not sitting correctly on the headstock. Take a close look at the posted pic again (zoom in). See how there is a gap of a few mm under the nut and how it rests at a slight angle? This is what I was talking about since day 1. This is what to me is inexcusable. Sure I can get the nut filed—no problem—done! File the nut down all you want and it's still not going to rest in that narrow plane. THIS is what was wrong with the first 2 basses (in addition to the binding chip on the first and the misalignment on the second).

This can't be normal. Am I missing something?

I know this was mentioned before but RIC does not cut a nut slot to set the base of the nut in. Or so it use to be like that. It certainly seems like your bass has a shallow "slot" in it but the nut is too wide at its base to actually fit in it. Strange. Is this something new they are working on?? I own a 2012 4004 and there is no nut slot. All my other 6 RIC basses of varying years have no nut slot. The base of the nut sits squarely on the neck and butts up to the end of the fretboard.

I realize this does not help you in your situation but in all my RIC experience, this is not how they normally set nuts.

Sepp

[f64]

Originally Posted by Kopfjaeger

I know this was mentioned before but RIC does not cut a nut slot to set the base of the nut in. Or so it use to be like that. It certainly seems like your bass has a shallow "slot" in it but the nut is too wide at its base to actually fit in it. Strange. Is this something new they are working on?? I own a 2012 4004 and there is no nut slot. All my other 6 RIC basses of varying years have no nut slot. The base of the nut sits squarely on the neck and butts up to the end of the fretboard.

I realize this does not help you in your situation but in all my RIC experience, this is not how they normally set nuts.

Sepp

To me it almost looks like production realized the top of the fretboard was not square after it was glued in and corrected that using the side of an abrasive wheel. Unfortunately it looks like they went too far and cut into the wood.
I've spent 35 years on and off of manufacturing floors and this was the first thing that came to mind when I saw it. I've got a 4003 and a 360- 12 string and neither have a slot. The nut relies on the fretboard for support and positioning.

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by Tarrbot

What you may be saying is true.

You know it is. Just reread the thread.

I don't care about Rickenbacker the brand, John Hall, why they are over-bashed as a brand, and why they are over-defended by the fans. It's an instrument company, and they make stuff that some people like, and some people don't. It's a piece of wood, hardware and wires turned into beautiful craft - and sometimes there are problems.

Not all are perfect, and the OP was expecting better - twice. No big deal. However, nonsense often comes from both sides, and in this case it seems to come more from the Ric lover side.

Whatever. I'm leaving the arguing to the diehard fans and the haters. If the OP wants my help, no loss. If he does it could be fun for both of us. I'm out.

[Pbass4003]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

Whenever I get sucked into reading these Rickenbacker threads, I usually get angry because it seems like a lot of the problems don't just come from the "RIC hating trolls", but sometimes the fanboys themselves that can't seem to get along...

OP - I'm sorry to hear about all your Ricky woes. I want to make you an offer since you're local...

I live in Brooklyn, and when I'm finished with this post, I'm heading to Fresh Meadows to spend the weekend with my girlfriend. A few weeks ago I went on a hunt to try a few decent Rickys in Manhattan while I had time off. I went to Sam Ash, and their Rickenbackers were either poorly set up, or had a pickup issue. I also went across the street to Rudy's and tried their 4003. A much better specimen, but still left something to be desired. Finally, I went to 30th street guitars...

They had several used Rics, but I found this 4003 from the late 80s in the natural finish with the black guard and truss cover. I felt like it was the best Ric I'd ever played in a store. No push-pull, it was old school. I couldn't put it down for a good 15 minutes.

If you are still unhappy by Monday, I would personally meet you at 30th street guitars to show you the Ric I liked a lot. I always like to help with instrument purchases, would like to meet some of my TB brethern, and I really wanted someone to have this Ric (hopefully its still there)...

Lemme know if interested!

Sent you a PM, and thank you. Replacement is being delivered tomorrow...

[bassgod0dmw]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

Finally, I went to 30th street guitars...

They had several used Rics, but I found this 4003 from the late 80s in the natural finish with the black guard and truss cover. I felt like it was the best Ric I'd ever played in a store. No push-pull, it was old school. I couldn't put it down for a good 15 minutes.

If you are still unhappy by Monday, I would personally meet you at 30th street guitars to show you the Ric I liked a lot. I always like to help with instrument purchases, would like to meet some of my TB brethern, and I really wanted someone to have this Ric (hopefully its still there)...

Lemme know if interested!

That would be the 1988 Mapleglo BT/BH that I almost bought. I agree, it's one of the best Ric's I've ever touched.

I've been eyeballing it for a few months now, but they're not really willing to deal on the price. They want $1700 for it, with no case. Some of the finish on the hardware is flaking off and some of the pots need to be replaced. It's got some mojo for sure!

[Tvrtko]

Originally Posted by Tarrbot

"Yugos are perfect. I bought one sight unseen in 1986 and it drove flawlessly".

That's my case. I made 250 000 km with mine. Yugo rules!

[Tarrbot]

Originally Posted by ggvicviper

You know it is. Just reread the thread.

I don't care about Rickenbacker the brand, John Hall, why they are over-bashed as a brand, and why they are over-defended by the fans. It's an instrument company, and they make stuff that some people like, and some people don't. It's a piece of wood, hardware and wires turned into beautiful craft - and sometimes there are problems.

Not all are perfect, and the OP was expecting better - twice. No big deal. However, nonsense often comes from both sides, and in this case it seems to come more from the Ric lover side.

Whatever. I'm leaving the arguing to the diehard fans and the haters. If the OP wants my help, no loss. If he does it could be fun for both of us. I'm out.

Look, let me apologize if there are hurt feelings. I just found it quite ironic that you were accusing Ric5--one of the guys who calls it likes he sees it, one of the guys who doesn't have qualms about telling Rickenbacker the company off, one of the guys who tears his Ricks apart to make them better--as being a fanboy.

Maybe you don't know him, but it was insulting to have a guy come in here and claim something and then when called out on it not be able to substantially back it up. Ric5 made a comment on how interesting that was and how a pattern seemed to be in play. There was no need to try to smack him for a comment that was true.

I'm up for just raising a glass of Scotch and calling it over.

[Jeff Scott]

Here's another toast for Ric5.

[bassmachine2112]

I,ve had the same Rick for 13 years now and adjusted it once when I got it.
the best set up bass I,ve ever had from the box is an Aria cardinal which is about 30 years old now and have never touched it.The next best one is a Vintage v4 which only had a tweak when I put a maple neck on it.
Sometimes you get one which suits you and sometimes not.Set up is a very personal thing.It,s something you learn to do.

[Pbass4003]

Third time's a charm! My replacement is much more polished: nut is nicely seated, binding is perfect, normal string alignment (LOL), and fantastic fretwork. Even the wood grain is carefully matched too, which is something I was joking about earlier. My only concern out of the box was the ridiculous amount of relief in the neck (much like the first one), but after I swapped (the admittedly good sounding) steel cables it shipped with for TIs, the neck straightened right out!

I don't know if it means anything, but the turds I sent back were both manufactured Aug 2012, while this one is a June baby (like me). Maybe August was an off-month. And this isn't a complaint more than it is just a silly observation, but the rosewood on this bass seems darker and more even, but lacks the cool golden feathery swirls the last 2 had. Every Ric is different in some way.

I'll take some pics and report back more thoroughly after she's inspected and set up by a pro tomorrow. The tech is a fellow forum member referred to me by a forum member. Proof that good things still do come from the internet. Thanks, all!

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by guy n. cognito

Wait, you forgot the step where the Ric fans claim that all production basses have these massive issues....then extol the virtures of J Hall's "perfectly flat" setup.

Ya I probably left out a lot ...

It is a shame we end arguing about the imperfection or perfection of a small $5 plastic part.

[gadgetgirl]

Glad to hear the news. Look forward to the update post set up'

[ggvicviper]

Originally Posted by electracoyote

"Massive issues"?!?!?!?!?!

LMAO, and hard.

Surely, you were exaggerating for effect, no?

Well, in my experience, nut issues, though I consider them far from "massive," are not uncommon with a long list of bass manufacturers. I am informed by 35 years of buying selling and trading, and with a current collection of over 120 basses and guitars. And I really couldn't care less if anyone else agrees with that or not.

I'm not defending it, just saying, this seems to be an area where guitar and bass manufacturers commonly get a little sloppy. If that weren't the case, I wouldn't have resigned myself to investing in nut building and shaping tools and files and learning how to do it myself, to avoid the hassle of endless returns, bass roulette, and paying my local techs ridiculous fees for such a simple operation.

I can't remember the last time I received a bass or guitar NIB and didn't have to at least touch up the nut slots.

Yeah, I agree - it's sloppy, and it's a bit too common. I do, however, prefer a slightly high cut nut to a low cut one. Don't wanna hear no fret rattle on an open note - so I add a teeny strip of wet paper towel to raise it a little. IME nuts cut too low are more common than too high.

Came back to say congrats on the good 4003! Also means that the 30th Street Guitars' 1988 Ric 4003 is still up for grabs to a lucky Ric lover

[thiocyclist]

You may have to adjust the neck some day. Those TIs are really low tension. The factory strings are medium at best. So it probably needs a little tightening if you ever go to any other string. That's okay; RIC sets the action fairly high from the factory, I have noticed. Every new one I play in recent years is like that.

For the record... at least as nuts go, a high-cut nut does not make a bass a turd whatsoever, and I hope someone else gets to enjoy the bass. There was also the one with the strings that were offset, but again I really think that was highly blown out of proportion. I've seen cases of QC slip-ups in this area that actually were very bad; in your case it didn't appear to be a real problem and even if so could have been very easily remedied by getting the factory to replace the saddles (a very replaceable part like the nut); nevermind that this job would have probably had no impact on sound or playability but at least it would have looked slightly more centered to you. Maybe my attitude is in the minority but I would rather have gotten dealer/builder help to fix the minor issues than go through three basses to find a good one. Now, a bum neck or a truly misaligned bridge? That's return time. So don't get me wrong, I'm just another rabid fanboy it would seem. Although as I'm writing this I feel like my motivation is to get the OP to avoid more headaches in the future by figuring out what's a big deal and what isn't...

[KrisHayes]

I hear about stuff like this happening with Ricks all the time. For what they cost, they're really not made well at all.