Rickenfakers on a Chinese website

[pnut166]

Are these "wrong" ? Yes, of course. It`s intellectual theft. Are they in any way hurting Ric ? No. No one who could actually afford a real one - a potential customer - is going to buy one of these instead. I think the above suggestion of Ric providing the market with some lower-level products is a valid idea. The snide replies about "the good life" and " making money playing music" were unnecessarily snotty. If one of our resident luthiers - not naming names - builds a nice Ric copy - so nice, in fact, that it actually DOES rival the real thing, is that wrong of him to build it ? What if he sells it to someone ? I think he`s well within his rights, but the law would argue otherwise.And, ironically, a lot of the same dissenters here applaud him on his builds.

[Eric Killinger]

My favorite things about these threads is how nobody gives a **** about how when schecter released the stargazer (that looks nearly identical, or as identical you can get without getting sued) but the moment someone talks about a bass coming from china, all hell breaks loose.

[Aceonbass]

Well, it's simple. The Schecter Stargazer isn't close enough to get sued over trademark infringement, but the Chinese copies are, because they're..well..copies!. It's as simple as that. If someone, and I know who we're talking about, builds a RIC copy and is paid to do it (who would build a guitar for free, right?), then he's making money off of RIC's designs. It's just like someone recording a song YOU wrote, and getting paid for it without giving any money to YOU.

[rick4001s]

Hello BassTalk users. I must inform you that buying Chinese guitars is now even more risky because DHGate and more recently Tradetang no longer accept payment via PayPal. Buying from Chinese guitar sellers, I believe, is not worth the risk.

[atomicdog]

Originally Posted by bassingeorge

Look at this.....fake fenders....

YouTube - ‪Guitar Factory China electric & acoustic guitars manufacture‬‏

Depressing. What a sweat shop. No dust control. No respirators. No exhaust fans or ventilators.

[bmc]

Makes me think twice about what I'm giving my money to when I buy a Phil Jones amplifier, since they're all made in China. And to boot, look at the excessive markup he puts.

[bassplayer8953]

Originally Posted by atomicdog

Depressing. What a sweat shop. No dust control. No respirators. No exhaust fans or ventilators.

For reference, US guitar/bass production:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHdQL...eature=related

[Aceonbass]

I'd much rather have my money going to support the people and economies in the LAST video.

[bootsox]

I wish they'd take pictures of the headstock, I want to know if I'm buying an outright fake or just a copy.

[Aceonbass]

Ummm...A fake and a copy are the same thing.

[C.Linton]

I think he means by fake as something counterfeit, meant to fool someone into thinking it's something it's not , and copy as something that looks like something else but not meant to fool, much like a Squier is a copy of a Fender and not a fake.

[bootsox]

Originally Posted by Aceonbass

Ummm...A fake and a copy are the same thing.

not usually. a copy generally refers to something produced and distributed under a different brand name from the original. a Hondo p-bass is a copy. if it were a fake, it would have a fake fender logo

[C.Linton]

Perhaps "counterfeit" would have been a more appropriate term than "fake" in this instance.

[bill reed]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

Perhaps "counterfeit" would have been a more appropriate term than "fake" in this instance.

Counterfeits tend to be illegal to sell, but making a copy of a Ric is only illegal in the USA and Canada where they have a patent registered for the body and headstock.
It is not illegal to sell copy Ric's in Europe and the Far East.
Putting a Rickenbacker name on a copy and trying to sell it as a Ric makes it counterfeit and illegal worldwide.
In the UK Rockinbetter sell Ric 4003 & 4001 copies legally as there is not patent in the UK, or in Europe and the Far East but could be illegal if imported to the USA. The Japanese made lots Ric copies in the 60s, 70, and 80s but were only illegal when they were imported to the USA in big numbers and Ric took action against them.

[Aceonbass]

Hmmmm....Not exactly true. First of all, patents are not the issue, it's TRADEMARKS. These trademarks are protected outside the US, although not everywhere, and RIC has had them enforced by local authorities on multiple occasions.

[bill reed]

Originally Posted by Aceonbass

Hmmmm....Not exactly true. First of all, patents are not the issue, it's TRADEMARKS. These trademarks are protected outside the US, although not everywhere, and RIC has had them enforced by local authorities on multiple occasions.

If Rickenbacker do not take out a "TRADEMARK" out in the UK then they can't enforce that (USA) trademark here. there has been companys making Ric copys since the late 60s and the only seem to have problems when trying to import to the USA and Canada and that how it should be as the have the trade rights there.
its the same thing with Fender and Gibson not taking out Tradmarks on there guitars and why there so many copys in the USA.
Rickenbacker do not have world wide-trademarks. thats why there are so many copys still around outside the USA and Canada.

[C.Linton]

Bill's right.

[Aceonbass]

Rickenbacker has it's trademarks registered outside of the US. This is something I know ....a little bit about.

[bill reed]

Originally Posted by Aceonbass

Rickenbacker has it's trademarks registered outside of the US. This is something I know ....a little bit about.

The USA, Canada and Japan as far as I can tell. do not think there is one for Europe or China, not sure about South Korea as the USA do have a big input over there and may have agreement not to inport to USA.
I know that Tokai use to make Rockinbetter in Japan and then stopped and then transferred to a privet company in Korea and there are now the sole imports of Rockinbetter in the UK, they are sent direct from Korea to the UK and not through the normal Tokai source in Japan.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by Eric Killinger

My favorite things about these threads is how nobody gives a **** about how when schecter released the stargazer (that looks nearly identical, or as identical you can get without getting sued) but the moment someone talks about a bass coming from china, all hell breaks loose.

The stargazer was different enough not to violate the trademarks covering the 4001/4003 basses. Specifically the headstock was quite different.

I don't know how much different it has to be to no longer voilate the trademark. Rickenbacker went after Hipshot to try and stop them from making the replacement bridge for the 4001/4003 basses. They obviously were not successful because that is still for sale as is the Allparts one.

When someone makes a Rick copy for sale is they will hear from Rickenbacker legal telling them what they are doing violates the trademark. But not everything a lawyer tells you is true. They quite often make outrageous claims to see what they can get away with. How much of Rickenbacker's trademark protection would actually stand up in court? Obviously a close copy will violate the trademark, but how much do you need to change before it is just another bass?