Sadowksy w/single coil J pups - how to warm sound?

NeckPickup · #1 07-25-2011, 06:41 AM

Hi,

I just got my hands on a Sadowsky that has the non-hum-cancelling jazz pickups, and this thread is not meant to be a re-hash of the hum-cancelling versus non-hum-cancelling debate threads. I've read those, and there's no right answer for everyone. My question is more specific. I want the bass to have more of the warmth that my vintage Jazz has, and I'm wondering based on anyone's experiences if it would be more effective to try the hum-cancelling pickups or instead to try the nickel rounds instead of the Blue Steels that are on there?

My vintage jazz has DR Sunbeams (nickel) and has just a little edge, but a really nice warm full bottom that I'm not quite able to dial in on the Sad yet. It has the VTC and that helps some, but it's still a little too bright and harsh. Certainly changing the strings is an easier first step, but what do people think of nickels on Sads vs. using the other pickups? Thanks for your advice!

bassgod0dmw · #2 07-25-2011, 06:52 AM

I'd start with strings as you mention. SS is always going to be a little brighter than nickel. I would also try adding in some bass and possibly more VTC on the preamp. How is the blend control set? Centered? Favoring one pickup over the other?

My NYC PJ5 is pretty bright & punchy sounding, but that's why i bought it.

KJung · #3 07-25-2011, 06:56 AM

I love my Sadowsky with single coils.... warmer, punchier, more mid present than the stock HC pickups.

HOWEVER, it still sounds 100% Sadowsky. Even in passive mode, it sounds nothing like a vintage Fender or brands like the Alleva-Coppolo that are meant to more vibe a classic Fender sound.

You might like the singles better, but it still will not get you that far into 'Fenderland' tone-wise IMO and IME.

I have quite a few clips of my Sadowsky J (ash/maple) with singles on my Youtube channel, which might give you an idea of the tone. The best clip is the preamp review I did, which compares passive and active tone, all others things set equal.

I LOVE my Sadowsky..... but it sounds very little like a Fender IMO.

Edit: Of course, this assumes you are talking about the Sadowsky singles, which I believe are wound to Sadowsky specs by either Seymour Duncan or Nordstrand. I assume if you put a true Fender single coil in there, you would get pretty close, but that might be hard to do with string spacing issues, etc.

RS · #4 07-25-2011, 07:37 AM

Maybe try some flats. Also, as Ken says, Sadowskys sound like Sadowskys, not vintage Fenders. They do sound better in the mix often than then do solo, IME.

ReBass · #5 07-25-2011, 07:40 AM

I've had both DR Sunbeams and the Sadowsky Blue Label Nickels on my single coil Sadowsky. While I love the Sunbeams, I'm slowly being converted to the Blue Labels. I find them to be a bit warmer with a little more bottom end than the Sunbeams and they have just a bit more tension.

More to your question, I think nickel strings do warm up the single coils quite a bit versus SS strings, particularly the Blue Steels, which I used to use exclusively (though I haven't tried them on the Sadowsky). Of course, YMMV, IMHO, etc!

Joebone · #6 07-25-2011, 07:47 AM

Try nickelrounds by all means. DR Sunbeam, Sadowsky Blue Label and R. Cocco are all great (I like the Cocco's best, but that's me - tension seems somewhere between the DR and Sadowsky, tone seems fatter), and there are some Ernie Ball strings also worth exploring, at lower price point.

willbass44 · #7 07-25-2011, 07:56 AM

I have to agree with Kjung 100%, a Sadowsky will never sound like a vintge Fender Jazz, its not meant to, it sounds like what it is ....a Sadowsky. I've owned three Sadowsky basses, two ash maple & one alder morado. Your thread doesn't mention wood combo, but imo the alder morado gave me a slightly "warmer" tone than the ash maple. The vintage tone control is a good place to start, nickel strings instead steel also a good idea. What type of amp are you using, solid state, tube or a combination of the two? If its all solid state & you want to warm your sound you can try adding a tube preamp, that's what I did. But unfortunately or fortunately, depending on how you look @ it, your Sadowsky can't sound like a vintage Jazz bass without help, even in passive.

**Chef** · #8 07-25-2011, 07:59 AM

Is this an "at home impression, or an in the mix impression?"
Cause at home, your Sadowsky really is gonna seem a little uber bright and biting, but in a live mix, they just lay in there.

A single coil Sadowsky JJ is gonna sound real different than your L2000E; fer-real.

To me, a Sadowsky single coil JJ "needs the blue steels to be true to it's nature."
Let it be what it is, do what it does best, and lean into it and enjoy

number six · #9 07-25-2011, 08:17 AM

QUOTE=Chef; Is this an "at home impression, or an in the mix impression?"
Cause at home, your Sadowsky really is gonna seem a little uber bright and biting, but in a live mix, they just lay in there.

x2
At home my Sads sound way bright and toppy but put them in a band and they sit nicely where my Fender gets lost.

Having said that, I do have to take some cut off (even with TI flats) with the VTC or amp controls. I never try to add 'cut'.

NeckPickup · #10 07-25-2011, 08:40 AM

Thanks for your answers so far. To provide a little more background, this is a Will Lee NYC with alder/Madagascar rosewood, chosen because of the warmer vibe. Because I am a little neurotic about noise, I tend to play with the blend centered and let my amp compensate for any tonal variation - that doesn't help for on-the-fly changes, as in for soloing, but most of the gigs I play I'm not soloing much.

My amp is chosen because I am at the point in my life where lighter is better, so I am running a Genz Benz Shuttle max 9.2 and I typically use the tube preamp channel for warmth, not the FET channel. My Epifani and DNA neo speakers (again read "not heavy") don't exactly shake the floor and they both have very prominent tweeters that I may need to bump down

I think the point several of you made is spot on, that I need to hear the thing with other instruments before passing judgment. One of my basses I just sold to pay for this Sad that had Fralin JJ's never cut it in the mix, so I can see how it might be advantageous for it to sound a little over the top by itself.

And yes, I realize this won't sound at all like a G&L - I love G&L's for what they are, but was going for a different vibe - my Fender Jazz is my true (non-human) love.

KJung · #11 07-25-2011, 08:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeckPickup

Thanks for your answers so far. To provide a little more background, this is a Will Lee NYC with alder/Madagascar rosewood, chosen because of the warmer vibe. Because I am a little neurotic about noise, I tend to play with the blend centered and let my amp compensate for any tonal variation - that doesn't help for on-the-fly changes, as in for soloing, but most of the gigs I play I'm not soloing much.

My amp is chosen because I am at the point in my life where lighter is better, so I am running a Genz Benz Shuttle max 9.2 and I typically use the tube preamp channel for warmth, not the FET channel. My Epifani and DNA neo speakers (again read "not heavy") don't exactly shake the floor and they both have very prominent tweeters that I may need to bump down

I think the point several of you made is spot on, that I need to hear the thing with other instruments before passing judgment. One of my basses I just sold to pay for this Sad that had Fralin JJ's never cut it in the mix, so I can see how it might be advantageous for it to sound a little over the top by itself.

And yes, I realize this won't sound at all like a G&L - I love G&L's for what they are, but was going for a different vibe - my Fender Jazz is my true (non-human) love.

That Shuttle Max 9.2 is a fantastic amp. You haven't given anything up for light weight there, unless you prefer an all tube power section.

I always found the sweet spot on my Epi tweeters at about 9-10 o'clock (by sweet spot, I mean matching the db's of the tweeter to the top of the driver). Given that the Sadowsky HC's have a very sizzly, present top end, this would be key.

The downside to most Epifani cabs (IMO and IME) is that they have a bit of a hole in the lower mids (they have a bit of a hole in the upper mids also, but most like that tone anyway... smooth, airy top end). I found that, especially with the Sadowksy basses that I had with HC's, I needed to bump up the low mids (depending on the specific cab, between 125 and 200 hz). That helped a LOT with warm, present punch.

Get it on a few gigs. I think you will dig it. The Shuttle Max has wonderfully powerful yet musical EQ, and it is easy to dial a bit more punch and grind in if you want it.

Also, the Sadowsky basses are shielded so well, and the components are so high end that I can vary the blend a slight touch either way and get 80%+ solo'd pickup tone with my SC's with absolutely no increase in noise whatsover. Of course, with HC"s, there is no issue at all. So, don't be afraid of the Sadowsky singles and noise... zero issue IMO and IME.

rulyongo · #12 07-25-2011, 08:58 AM

I had the same issue when I bought my Sadowsky. I bought it as a backup to my 1975 Precision and at first had a lot of issues with it's brightness and found it "sterile". But as I kept using it live I started noticing how well it fits with the other instruments and was always very punchy in the mix, even in rooms where hearing the bass is difficult it always delivers... Another interesting thing about it is that almost every time I play I get compliments on the sound, from bassists, non-bassists and even non-musicians...

So, my advice is to give it a little more time and if you still don't like it, sell it. You can sell it easily...

cripula · #13 07-25-2011, 09:35 AM

Try the sunbeams, and give them time to die a bit. No treble boost, bit of bass boost, maybe back the VTC off a touch.

Should you end up wanting HCs anyway, I'm sure you won't have a problem finding someone here to trade for your SCs...

EagleMoon · #14 07-25-2011, 10:02 AM

I have SC's on my Will Lee and have Hi-Beams on it. But that's the sound I'm going for. I usually just cut back on the VTC if I'm wanting to cut back a bit on the brightness. I would think the nickel strings would be the way to go if you want to do that on a regular basis.

bucephylus · #15 07-25-2011, 10:11 AM

Hmmm, actually kind of hard to say without hearing what you are doing with your J's.

I am going to dissent somewhat. Yes, the Sadowsky circuit is boost only and works in a pretty different way than the Fender passive cut circuit. However, my 2 Fender J's, a real '62 and a Marcus 5, both to me have a much more raw sound than the Sadowsky, especially in the mix. Neither is in the mix what I would consider "warmer." I will say that the Fender passive circuit can do that sound you get by dialing the tone to full cut and favoring the bridge pickup; and I can not get that fat tight exact sound with the Sadowsky - EXACTLY. But, the VTC can approximate it. I don't use it that often, so no biggie for me.

You do have the option of changing to the HC pups on the Sadowsky. They are warmer, though you give up some of the raw edginess that the singles have.

Again, I'm not sure if you are talking about your impressions of the Sadowsky in the mix or in your living room. I find those to be two pretty different things. That active boost circuit is pretty aggressive and has to be used sparingly. More than about 25% on for either is more than enough for me. In the mix, I find the Sadowsky actually sits less aggressively than the Fender does. So, depends for me whether I want more attitude or make the sound guys happy.

Don't know if that helps at all. Guess I would just say if you really like the Fender, stick with it. But, I would be cautious to eval with an in the mix situation. And you do have some options. But, they are different instruments at the end of the day. Roger is definitely not a me too act. GL.

**WoodyG3** · #16 07-25-2011, 11:34 AM

Well, strings are cheap, so for sure I'd try that first.

svtb15 · #17 07-25-2011, 11:40 AM

I would start by changing the 500k VOL pot to a 250K pot... simple to do and it may do what you want.
Warms it up without loosing the character of the bass and is nothing like using small amounts of the VTC...

Quote:

Originally Posted by NeckPickup

Hi,

I just got my hands on a Sadowsky that has the non-hum-cancelling jazz pickups, and this thread is not meant to be a re-hash of the hum-cancelling versus non-hum-cancelling debate threads. I've read those, and there's no right answer for everyone. My question is more specific. I want the bass to have more of the warmth that my vintage Jazz has, and I'm wondering based on anyone's experiences if it would be more effective to try the hum-cancelling pickups or instead to try the nickel rounds instead of the Blue Steels that are on there?

My vintage jazz has DR Sunbeams (nickel) and has just a little edge, but a really nice warm full bottom that I'm not quite able to dial in on the Sad yet. It has the VTC and that helps some, but it's still a little too bright and harsh. Certainly changing the strings is an easier first step, but what do people think of nickels on Sads vs. using the other pickups? Thanks for your advice!

smeet · #18 07-25-2011, 11:45 AM

I tried everything with my nyc ash/morado VJ5. I swapped the HC pickups to Sadowsky single coils. Then I swapped them to Nordstrand NJ5s. I got the neck pickup overwound by Carey himself. It all helped, but still...

In the end the Sadowsky, great instrument as it is, just didn't agree with me. It certainly had cut in the mix, but didn't have a lot of fundamental in the note, even when the bass is boosted. All my Fenders and my Carvin SB5000 have a lot more "meat" to the note, and more rawness (like a P) when I favor the neck pickup. The Sadowsky had great singing highs and mids and low lows, but the high lows (and note fundamental!) were lacking for me. If I played 100% on the neck pickup it was always just loose-sounding mud. I wanted to love it, but I couldn't. I'm sure many other players would LOVE that bass.

So, maybe you are just not meant to be a Sadowsky player/lover, no shame in that.