Sadowsky Metro 5 vs. 2010 American Deluxe Jazz V

[john nam]

With all else being equal, which one would you choose and why?

[BigOldHarry]

I have not yet played the 2010 Fender deluxe V, but every fender V I've played was lame.

I have played a Sad Metro and it was nice. Not the end-all/be-all of 5's, but nice.

[Chasarms]

I haven't played the newest ADJV, but I did have a 2008 ASJV, and I would assume the overall feel is similar.

Oddly, the new Fenders and the Sadowskys feel remarkably similar in terms of the neck geometry. I would think that the overall fit and finish is going to be pretty similar as well. Both as going to very good.

All that said, I would choose the Sadowsky simply because of the preamp and pickups. I love the Sadowsky sound. I have two and just bought another one. The way a Sadowsky sits in the mix is pretty unique. It is a very special thing.

Of course, I don't think you could go wrong with the Fender. The new Fender stuff is VERY nice.

[anezthes]

Aesthetically, I'd chose the Metro. I think I'd prefer the body shape being somewhat smaller than a traditional J, and I don't like the block inlays on the Deluxe models.

The only real advantage that the Fender model has, IMO, is the graphite rods in the neck.

I've never really encountered a Fender I've liked though, neither in terms of feel nor sound except for one, which is my brother's very old and beat up 4 stringer.

And I can only reference sound samples, as I've yet to play a Sad myself, but as for what I've heard it sounds much more to my liking.

However, the Fender is much cheaper, and the up-charge for buying and installing the Sad pickups would be less than what the Metro would cost (at least here).

[basswave]

Valenti or Nordy

[datsaxguy]

2 words - String spacing. I like 19mm on a 5ver, so Sadowsky wins.

[datsaxguy]

Originally Posted by basswave

Valenti or Nordy

NORDY!!!!

[pacojas]

for my money, i'll take the Fender and all the extra left-over cash.

what is a Sadowsky, but a Fender with a dress on and some lip-stick.

[StuartV]

All else being equal means the same price. In which case it's either a rip-off on the Fender or a steal on the Sadowsky. Either way, "all else equal" means anybody would be crazy not to pick the Sadowsky.

[osuok88]

Sadowsky. I have a Sadowsky MV 5 and it is the finest 5-string that I ever play. It is that great and I have played all the Fender 5 string and never like their B strings

[pacojas]

Originally Posted by StuartV

All else being equal means the same price. In which case it's either a rip-off on the Fender or a steal on the Sadowsky. Either way, "all else equal" means anybody would be crazy not to pick the Sadowsky.

that changes the Fender to Custom Shop specs if price were to be equal. better comparison, IMO.

[harrybosch]

This is a stupid thread with a very easy answer. If you want the Fender sound buy the Fender, if you want the Sadowsky sound buy the Sadowsky as they do sound different. I personally prefer the Fender's specifically the one's prior to 2010 that have 22 frets and SCN pups.

[john nam]

Actually, the price difference between a new 2010 Deluxe V (hard to find used ones) is $1700-$1800 and a used Metro isn't that much more. As for Custom Classics, I prefer the new Deluxe Vs because they have a passive option, whereas the Custom Classics are active only. Aside from sound, the only thing that the new Deluxes have over most Metros are blocks (I know the UVs have blocks) and that they're US made.

[Scott McArron]

Originally Posted by john nam

Actually, the price difference between a new 2010 Deluxe V (hard to find used ones) is $1700-$1800 and a used Metro isn't that much more. As for Custom Classics, I prefer the new Deluxe Vs because they have a passive option, whereas the Custom Classics are active only. Aside from sound, the only thing that the new Deluxes have over most Metros are blocks (I know the UVs have blocks) and that they're US made.

Not true in the slightest about the cost. I agree about the blocks and binding though. Most jazz-clone builders charge between 400 and 600 bucks retail (according to the price sheets I've seen from Lull and others) for these aesthetic features.

-Fender 2010 AD: $1600 - 1700 max (cheaper from Sweetwater if you ask about the TB discount from Dan V.)

-Sadowsky Metro 5: $2500 (about 750 more)

-Sadowsky Metro 5 with Blocks and Binding (UV model, which is actually more comparable in features minus the 70's pickup spacing): $3000 (about 1250 more)

That's an average difference of 750 bucks (without that extra little discount, which will put the Alder/rw Fender at a grand less than the Sadowsky.) Discount or no discount, it's not even close. Add the blocks and binding an ddiscount to the Fender and you have what would be closer to a $3000 Sadowsky UV, but the Fender's price would still be the same at about half that of the Sadowsky. Worlds apart.

The Custom Classic, which often goes for the mid- to upper-2000's like the Sadowsky Metros, is definitely a much better match in terms of price comparison. Still, no binding on those though. Personally, I'm not into that look.

I've owned and played both. I loved them both for what they did. They were both probably two of my favorite jazz basses ever for different reasons. However, I never thought the Sadowsky B strings were that great (on the 10+ Metros I've tried. I'd give them an 8/10 tops with a great setup and good strings). B strings were very similar on both basses, very good, but not outstanding (can't speak for pre-2010, but that's not the model in question here anyway). My Lull and Lakland could take 1/3rd the height of action and still be tighter, more defined, with less fret buzz, but those are a different story.

As for construction, I could not tell the difference in quality between the two. Both had the same super-tight neck pockets, finish looked excellent, average weight is very similar, necks were near straight (Fender come with graphite reinforcement, Sadowsky does not), both had killer tone (with aftermarket pickups on the Fender), etc. I'm not a fan of the chrome on the Fender tuners, but no one else seems to mind them in previous threads where I've discussed this. I'd opt for some Gotoh vintage light weight replacements personally.

If I were to grab one of these again, a 4-string version anyway because I'm tired of putting money into 34" 5 string basses to constantly be disappointed, I'd definitely go with the Fender and have the joy of modding it with new pickups and electronics to make it my own. After the upgrades, it would definitely be more comparable quality-wise to the Sadowsky, but still save you a 1000 bucks compared to the blocked and bound UV model. That's a grand in your pocket for comparable instruments.

IMO/IME as a past owner of both basses.

[Kwesi]

They both sound and feel sweet but between those two I'd go with the Fender for a few reasons.

1) The Fender has a 3-band pre-amp and it's GOOD. It also has a passive tone control which is a nice option if I ever have to switch it into passive but kinda confusing (for me) if it works in active too. My Markbass amp has the VLE which is good enough for me.

2) I like the bigger Fender body. I know the UV70s are full size but I'm not a 70s jazz guy.

3) The Sadowsky pickups are a little bright for me, I know I can tone them down but the N3s just work better for me (at least in the 2010 Amercian Deluxes).

[Scott McArron]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

They both sound and feel sweet but between those two I'd go with the Fender for a few reasons.

1) The Fender has a 3-band pre-amp and it's GOOD. It also has a passive tone control which is a nice option if I ever have to switch it into passive but kinda confusing (for me) if it works in active too. My Markbass amp has the VLE which is good enough for me.

2) I like the bigger Fender body. I know the UV70s are full size but I'm not a 70s jazz guy.

3) The Sadowsky pickups are a little bright for me, I know I can tone them down but the N3s just work better for me (at least in the 2010 Amercian Deluxes).

+1. Personally, I thought the N3's sounded good, but I thought it sounded a good deal better with aftermarket pickups. I had Nordies in mine, and I'd love to try the SD SJB-1's, but I think most any decent aftermarket pickup makes the Fenders sound that much better. Just for my preferences though.

[portlandguy]

Go with the Jazz

[Kwesi]

Originally Posted by Scott McArron

+1. Personally, I thought the N3's sounded good, but I thought it sounded a good deal better with aftermarket pickups. I had Nordies in mine, and I'd love to try the SD SJB-1's, but I think most any decent aftermarket pickup makes the Fenders sound that much better. Just for my preferences though.

I wonder about those N3 pickups. They sounded REALLY good to me. I mean, hands down, better than any Fender pickup I've heard to date. Then again, I suppose I can't exactly place what part of that change was the preamp or pickups. But it's not often that I pick up a bass and can't decide it would be best left stock or modded and that's exactly what happend when I tried one.

A bit of a sidenote: I tried Nordy NJ5S pups in my current American Deluxe and was really disappointed in the sound I got from the bridge pup. It had practically none of that Jaco tone I wanted but every time I hear from others they say that they get it fine. I'm hesitant to order another set but I really want to give them another shot.

[john nam]

Scott, you might have misread my post, but I was comparing the price of a new American Deluxe V with a used Metro V since there aren't many used 2010 Deluxes out there, and their prices are not too far apart (there was a Metro 5 on TB recently for $1750). This is especially true if you get new pickups, preamp, and labor for installation on the Deluxe.

I agree that the Sadowsky B requires the right strings (Sad strings are a good bet with the taperwound B and high tension) and a good setup, but to me, what's special about the Sadowsky B is how tight the B sounds, not how tight it feels. Feeling wise, it's just above average, IMO.

[Scott McArron]

Originally Posted by Kwesi

I wonder about those N3 pickups. They sounded REALLY good to me. I mean, hands down, better than any Fender pickup I've heard to date. Then again, I suppose I can't exactly place what part of that change was the preamp or pickups. But it's not often that I pick up a bass and can't decide it would be best left stock or modded and that's exactly what happend when I tried one.

A bit of a sidenote: I tried Nordy NJ5S pups in my current American Deluxe and was really disappointed in the sound I got from the bridge pup. It had practically none of that Jaco tone I wanted but every time I hear from others they say that they get it fine. I'm hesitant to order another set but I really want to give them another shot.

I agree that the N3's sounded like some of the better Fender pickups out there. Compared to the NJ5's, the single coil version, I thought the Fender's sounded kind of synthetic, like plastic maybe, and the NJ5's sounded more organic, open, and natural sounding, like wood. But I probably wouldn't go the NJ5's again, I loved the low end but the top end was a little too polite for my tastes.

As far as Jaco tone, I thought the NJ5s sounded like a fatter version of that, which to me is better in that it's a better band supporting tone while still getting a similar vibe. It didn't quite get as thin and growly and midrangey, but it got pretty close to my ear. I probably wouldn't choose the NJ5s if true Jaco-tone is what you're after, though I'm no aftermarket pickup expert.

I've heard the SD SJB-1's are the closest to an actual 60's jazz bass tone, like practically dead on, from JohnK (vintage Fender expert) who worked with Leo Fender himself. It's nice that they're really inexpensive as well. Plus, I've heard clips of them in other basses and I love the clarity with the vintage vibe, and the midrange content of those pickups really make them a total package. There's a Lollar vs SJB-1 thread in the pickups forum, and while some people thought they sounded really similar, I wasn't one of them. Yeah, both vintage J-basses, but the Lollars were fatter like a P and the SD's more even from top to bottom. The more I listen to the A/B the more I like the SDs. Not sure how they'd sound in an active instrument though. Don't think they make them for 5ers, btw.