Sadowsky Sounding "Muddy"

metallist · #1 01-16-2012, 03:15 PM

I know - sounds strange hey?

Anyway that was comment made by a sound engineer.

I've been advised to re-record on an Ibanez bass.

Style is symphotic Metal.

Has this ever happened to anyone in the past?

bassgod0dmw · #2 01-16-2012, 03:21 PM

Do you have anything more specific? Is this guy a trusted engineer, and are you both on the same page as far as tone? Live or studio? Settings on the bass? Strings and age?

**nostatic** · #3 01-16-2012, 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metallist

Anyway that was comment made by a sound engineer.

I've been advised to re-record on an Ibanez bass.

Who's paying for the tracking?

Joeykun · #4 01-16-2012, 03:29 PM

I have heard many adjectives describing the Sadowsky tone...

But NEVER muddy!!

metallist · #5 01-16-2012, 03:33 PM

Rather reputed engineer (in Australia).
Studio setting.
Volume max, VTC max, equal blend of p/ups, bass & treble flat/zero.
New strings each session (2 days/2 sets of strings).
EXL 165-5.
New battery on day 1.
Bass is a couple of months old.

To me it sounded great. We tested 4 basses on day one (My Sadowsky M5-25 & Schecter Studio 6 w/ active EMG's and his Ibanez & Fender) and mutually agreed that the Sadowsky was the one.

However a week later and with fresh ears things changed.

metallist · #6 01-16-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeykun

I have heard many adjectives describing the Sadowsky tone...

But NEVER muddy!!

I know - that is why I am a little annoyed.

You'd spending the money that I did (without any regrets) that the bass would sound perfect for any style.

metallist · #7 01-16-2012, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

Who's paying for the tracking?

The entire cost of recording will be split equally between all band members.

**nostatic** · #8 01-16-2012, 03:38 PM

Do you think it sounds muddy? If you're paying the engineer his job is to get the sound that you want. If somebody else was paying him then it is a different story.

metallist · #9 01-16-2012, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

Do you think it sounds muddy? If you're paying the engineer his job is to get the sound that you want. If somebody else was paying him then it is a different story.

I think it sounds great - better then the Ibanez did.

However I want to keep the peace with the engineer and the remainder of the band.

Jazz Ad · #10 01-16-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nostatic

Who's paying for the tracking?

Likely the same person who will complain to the engineer if the result sounds muddy. Guy is doing his job by trying to make the record sound good.

**nostatic** · #11 01-16-2012, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Likely the same person who will complain to the engineer if the result sounds muddy. Guy is doing his job by trying to make the record sound good.

And some engineers have an "interesting" idea of what sounds "good." As do some bass players.

metallist · #12 01-16-2012, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jazz Ad

Likely the same person who will complain to the engineer if the result sounds muddy. Guy is doing his job by trying to make the record sound good.

It is the engineer that has complained about the sound. He has then spoken to the guitarist who has then spoken to me. Like I said - trying to keep the peace.

darkstorm · #13 01-16-2012, 03:57 PM

If the engineer has left the eq's on board set for other basses, the 200hzs (boombox mud) may be boosted. In which case engineer needs to move that slider back down to zero. A slight boost of your basses treble control or alternately moving blend from even to a little bit toward bridge pup could clear things up for more cutting tone.

Ive known of engineers who boost the muddy portion of bass signal since they figure its mainly going to be listened to on systems with no low bass ability. Pop rock and those who orient toward fm radio play things also sometimes make this imo recording eq mistake.

Duckwater · #14 01-16-2012, 03:58 PM

By muddy he probably means that it's lacking the mids to have a clear sound in the context of your band, try favoring one of your pickups and or boosting mids/cutting bass.

metallist · #15 01-16-2012, 04:01 PM

Bass is running DI into all of this EQ stuff (I am bassist - not an engineer!).

He EQ'd the mud out initially but obviously he is still not happy.

bassgod0dmw · #16 01-16-2012, 04:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by metallist

Rather reputed engineer (in Australia).
Studio setting.
Volume max, VTC max, equal blend of p/ups, bass & treble flat/zero.
New strings each session (2 days/2 sets of strings).
EXL 165-5.

That is pretty much my controls as well. I'll boost a little bass or treble and mess with the VTC as needed...but it's far from muddy.

Have you or anyone else heard the recording with fresh ears? I mean, if you guys like it...

Joebone · #17 01-16-2012, 04:02 PM

I don't play metal, but the Sadowsky 5-24 is among my main axes for the last few years...I can imagine settings that could be on the muddy side, but that's easily fixed, and I'd think the tone of these basses would be ideal for what you describe. Are you using stainless steel rounds? I'd also suggest favoring the bridge pickup by about 10% (I'm assuming you have pickup pan rather than V/V), plucking/picking closer to the bridge, and experimenting with some settings that engage the preamp. I've lately taken to setting the active B and T at 50-60% and backing down the volume, but that is not in a metal setting. And I'm curious about how the bass drum is pitched and equalized. Like Fenders, Sadowskys seem to slot nicely in that "just above the bass drum" band. Is the bass "muddy" relative to other things, or "muddy on its own?

metallist · #18 01-16-2012, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bassgod0dmw

That is pretty much my controls as well. I'll boost a little bass or treble and mess with the VTC as needed...but it's far from muddy.

Have you or anyone else heard the recording with fresh ears? I mean, if you guys like it...

The drummer has had a listen and thought it was good. I too have listen and am happy with it.

KJung · #19 01-16-2012, 04:25 PM

If you have the Modern model, there is a LOT of lower and mid midrange in that voicing, and the treble response is way up there. I can see that possibly being an issue in some mixes

metallist · #20 01-16-2012, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joebone

I don't play metal, but the Sadowsky 5-24 is among my main axes for the last few years...I can imagine settings that could be on the muddy side, but that's easily fixed, and I'd think the tone of these basses would be ideal for what you describe. Are you using stainless steel rounds? I'd also suggest favoring the bridge pickup by about 10% (I'm assuming you have pickup pan rather than V/V), plucking/picking closer to the bridge, and experimenting with some settings that engage the preamp. I've lately taken to setting the active B and T at 50-60% and backing down the volume, but that is not in a metal setting. And I'm curious about how the bass drum is pitched and equalized. Like Fenders, Sadowskys seem to slot nicely in that "just above the bass drum" band. Is the bass "muddy" relative to other things, or "muddy on its own?

I am using D'Addario's - I think they are nickle round-wound. In terms of playing with the EQ - the guitarist & engineer are pretty much set that I will not be using the Sadowsky to record so I don't really see the point attempting to please them. I've been advised the Sadowsky "looks great and may even sound awesome live".

My opinion is that the bass sits nicely with the bass drum & the drums in general.