Sadowsky vs. Fender

[LaBassGuy]

If you like the Sadowsky sound--which I don't have any experince with--why not mod a good jazz bass with Sadowsky pups and preamp, thereby saving yourself thousands?

I mean, you can buy a Deluxe Fender Jazz, a Lakland DJ4 or a Carvin SB and mod it with the sadowsky electronics and get that tone, can't you?

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

Really, I thought you had just 3.

You're probably not counting the little Mustang.

[Doug Parent]

Originally Posted by LaBassGuy

If you like the Sadowsky sound--which I don't have any experince with--why not mod a good jazz bass with Sadowsky pups and preamp, thereby saving yourself thousands?

I mean, you can buy a Deluxe Fender Jazz, a Lakland DJ4 or a Carvin SB and mod it with the sadowsky electronics and get that tone, can't you?

The Sadowsky pre-amp by itself really lends the "Sadowsky" tone all to virtually any passive J bass with alnico magnets. I have Nordstrand singles in my MV5 and it's all good.

[Scot]

Originally Posted by LaBassGuy

If you like the Sadowsky sound--which I don't have any experince with--why not mod a good jazz bass with Sadowsky pups and preamp, thereby saving yourself thousands?

I mean, you can buy a Deluxe Fender Jazz, a Lakland DJ4 or a Carvin SB and mod it with the sadowsky electronics and get that tone, can't you?

It's a good question but let me tell ya, I've been down that road a few times. Back in the early '90's I was seriously jonesin' for a Sadowsky but didn't have the dough to buy one. I ended up buying a bunch of parts from Warmouth and some awesome pickups and electronics. I took them to my guitar repairmen in Vegas to put together like a Radio Shack project. It was my attempt at a poor man's Sadowsky. What I ended up with was a very mediocre sounding bass that was uninspiring to play.

I've also modified the hell out of a couple of Jazz basses, including my current MiM J bass. This bass has a J-Retro onboard pre, Dimarzio Ultra Jazz pups and the maple fingerboard Warmouth neck that I bought for my failed bass project/experiment. This bass sounds good and is definitely gig-worthy but it doesn't sound or play as good as the Sadowsky did. Furthermore, I had to tear the damn thing apart and completely shield the control and pickup cavities because it buzzed like crazy. Lastly, their are build flaws in this bass compared to the Sad. E.g., the strings don't line up perfectly with the pickup pole pieces, neck isn't seated as perfectly, etc., etc.

So what you get with a Sadowsky is Roger's experience. He has already worked all this sh*t out. You pull a Sadowsky out of the case and it's ready to gig and record. All those years of experience working with those NYC heavy weight cats goes in to each bass. Man, let me tell you...I ain't got 3-4k to spend on a bass right now and wish I could honestly say my modified Fender sounds and plays as good as my Sadowsky did but it don't.

[gkbass13]

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

Sharing info is one thing.

Starting a thread trying to justifying your choice of instrument (especially this age old, highly beated to death "Fender vs. Sadowsky topic) in a highly defensive manner to the TB world comes off as immature.

My response. Your happy with Fender? That's wonderful.

What I don't care for is the "I'm going to prove to the TB community that you don't need a Sadowsky" stuff.

Passive aggressive.
Defensive.
Troll like.
Too much time on your hands.

I generally enjoy your posts on here, but I think you are way off with this. The whole purpose of this site is for friendly interaction amongst a bass playing community. If you dislike threads like this, start your own proclaiming so! We won't mind. That's what the site is for, after all. Opinions, stories, comments, questions, answers, all of it!

Unfortunately, your angered responses made you fall into the mold of what you described at the end of your post that I quoted.

To the OP, thanks for sharing!

[Margus Alviste]

For me the most important question is how good does the wood resonate. I have had a few Sadowsky Metros that were built very well and the sound was great but the wood was dull and I didn't like to play them. So I sold them. Then I got an extremely good MV5 and that one is a keeper.
I have also had a 63 Precision which was quite average sounding and playing and also a 69 Jazz that was just a normal instrument, nothing special.
At the moment I have a great 62 Jazz and a very good 78 Jazz and I also have a bunch of other boutique basses. Whenever I need a certain sounding bass or a bass that makes it easier to play certain parts I just make my choice and pick up the best tool for the work.

[Doug Parent]

Originally Posted by gkbass13

I generally enjoy your posts on here, but I think you are way off with this. The whole purpose of this site is for friendly interaction amongst a bass playing community. If you dislike threads like this, start your own proclaiming so! We won't mind. That's what the site is for, after all. Opinions, stories, comments, questions, answers, all of it!

Unfortunately, your angered responses made you fall into the mold of what you described at the end of your post that I quoted.

To the OP, thanks for sharing!

This is off topic but in response to something that Modern Growl wrote.

I ran into this on a thread I started recently about string spacing, someone jumped in and was protesting the fact that we were discussing the differences between 18mm and 19mm.

On another thread about Stingrays, another person was being passive aggressive towards others commenters, all which were on topic.

There isn't a specific rule on Talkbass about this but, after several years on this board, I've seen reasons for disputes always come down to one central cause.

A person writes something that is an expression of their viewpoint. (Posts something)

That persons communication/viewpoint is subsequently subjected to ANY of the following by another person;

invalidated
attacked
made less of
mocked
ignored
refused
not acknowledged
not understood
protested

Any of those things are guaranteed to get a bad reaction IN LIFE.

example; Sassy Suzy writes "I love Sadowskys and I think they are better than Fenders"
Grumpy Gump Growls a response: ..."if I have to endure one more thread about Fenders/Sadowskys I'm going to throw up, furthermore you're an idiot" (protest and invalidation)

If we all take pains to refrain from doing so, it will be a more pleasant, helpful, informative and enjoyable web site overall.

[Doug Parent]

Originally Posted by Scot

I've also modified the hell out of a couple of Jazz basses, including my current MiM J bass. This bass has a J-Retro onboard pre, Dimarzio Ultra Jazz pups and the maple fingerboard Warmouth neck that I bought for my failed bass project/experiment. This bass sounds good and is definitely gig-worthy but it doesn't sound or play as good as the Sadowsky did. Furthermore, I had to tear the damn thing apart and completely shield the control and pickup cavities because it buzzed like crazy. Lastly, their are build flaws in this bass compared to the Sad. E.g., the strings don't line up perfectly with the pickup pole pieces, neck isn't seated as perfectly, etc., etc.

Another good reason to consider a Sadowsky. I've never seen one with with pole pieces that were off center from the string.
However, as I mentioned in my Warmoth thread awhile back, putting a Warmoth neck on any old Fender body won't guarantee a perfect fit as there are many variables to consider.

[boristhespider9]

The real question here is whether my Lakland USA Joe Osborn destroys the Fender and Sadowsky combined as the Fendowsky super-bass? The answer is yes - the Lakland USA JO makes the Fendowsky look and play like a clunky toy and is the greatest instrument ever made.

In summary, Lakland USA JO > Fendowsky.

Finally, someone has brought normalcy and rational thinking back to this thread.

[Modern Growl]

You know guys... this thread is about 2 months old and it's odd going back through it all now...

I must say, I did come off as a bit of a douche.

I must have been going through a bad day and was taking it out in this thread, a topic in which I usually would just ignore.

My apologies.

[Doug Parent]

Originally Posted by Modern Growl

You know guys... this thread is about 2 months old and it's odd going back through it all now...

I must say, I did come off as a bit of a douche.

I must have been going through a bad day and was taking it out in this thread, a topic in which I usually would just ignore.

My apologies.

From my corner, no worries man, and thanks for saying so. Happens to all of us.

[Fuzzbass]

Well, it's a gross exaggeration to say that Sadowskys and Fenders "don't sound the same at all", but aside from that I liked the OP. I love Fender and Sadowsky, but these days play Sadowsky exclusively. Quality is a huge factor, but also, they give me the sound I've always wanted from Fender. I play a P5 strung with flats in my Motown/blues/classic rock band, which is close enough to Fender for me, and roundwound-strung fivers for hard rock, which is where the "steroids" meme is validated IMHO.

The keyboard player in the R&B band was amazed at how in-tune my Sadowsky was, even way up on the neck on the low B and E: again, quality! But the average listener (and most musicians) aren't gonna notice a difference between Sadowsky and Fender. All that matters to *me* is that *I* notice.

That said: I agree that, to discerning ears, Sadowsky tone does not equal Fender tone. So, I do not recommend Sadowsky to someone looking for the vintage Fender tone. Well, I simply give the caveat that "Sadowsky *might* sound a little too modern".

Sadowsky does have passive mode, which of course sounds warmer, but I don't even use passive mode for R&B. For R&B I bump a little bass and roll back treble using the VTC (passive treble control).

As has been said many times here, it's just personal preference... true for the vast majority of threads here on TB!

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

From my corner, no worries man, and thanks for saying so. Happens to all of us.

+1

[john nam]

I'm the OP and the main reason I started this thread was not to say "I've got a Fender so Fenders are the best" (look at my avatar ); it's because I felt that the only way to get a high quality Fender styled 34" 5 string jazz was to get a Sadowsky, but now that's not the case anymore with the 2010+ Fenders. I used to think that Fenders had the worst build quality/playability of them all, but they really turned it around. So for those considering a Sadowsky as an alternative to a "crappy Fender", they might try one of the new Fenders first. I, for one, was really surprised when I first tried a 2010 Fender P5; it was light and it felt and played just like a Nordy P5 that I had tried at NAMM.

[Dr. Cheese]

Originally Posted by john nam

I'm the OP and the main reason I started this thread was not to say "I've got a Fender so Fenders are the best" (look at my avatar ); it's because I felt that the only way to get a high quality Fender styled 34" 5 string jazz was to get a Sadowsky, but now that's not the case anymore with the 2010+ Fenders. I used to think that Fenders had the worst build quality/playability of them all, but they really turned it around. So for those considering a Sadowsky as an alternative to a "crappy Fender", they might try one of the new Fenders first. I, for one, was really surprised.

That's exactly how I took it.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

The Sadowsky pre-amp by itself really lends the "Sadowsky" tone all to virtually any passive J bass with alnico magnets. I have Nordstrand singles in my MV5 and it's all good.

Oooo. Sinner. And I felt bad when I dropped the Flex Core in my UV70. But not when I'm playing it.

[Doug Parent]

[quote=Munjibunga;13540986]Oooo. Sinner. And I felt bad when I dropped the Flex Core in my UV70.

It's your bass brutha

[Doug Parent]

Originally Posted by john nam

I'm the OP and the main reason I started this thread was not to say "I've got a Fender so Fenders are the best" (look at my avatar ); it's because I felt that the only way to get a high quality Fender styled 34" 5 string jazz was to get a Sadowsky, but now that's not the case anymore with the 2010+ Fenders. I used to think that Fenders had the worst build quality/playability of them all, but they really turned it around. So for those considering a Sadowsky as an alternative to a "crappy Fender", they might try one of the new Fenders first. I, for one, was really surprised when I first tried a 2010 Fender P5; it was light and it felt and played just like a Nordy P5 that I had tried at NAMM.

Well I can say I've been a fan boy for the new 2010+ Fenders as well, they have really stepped up their game.

[Fuzzbass]

Originally Posted by Doug Parent

Well I can say I've been a fan boy for the new 2010+ Fenders as well, they have really stepped up their game.

+1

In my post I concentrated too much on the Sadowsky side (it is my choice after all). But Fenders these days are very good overall, and have the genuine traditional Fender tone. A Sadowsky can come reasonably close, tone-wise, but Roger's tone goal (which he's achieved) is not traditional Fender, and to those with discerning ears there's a significant difference.

If I couldn't afford a Sadowsky, I'd definitely be playing Fender. And sometimes I miss my old Roscoe Beck fivers, they were wonderful.

[LaBassGuy]

I have a Yamaha BBNE2 which I really dig. How does the tone of this compare to the Sadowsky tone?

[cfsporn]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Oooo. Sinner. And I felt bad when I dropped the Flex Core in my UV70. But not when I'm playing it.

That is so taboo, it is almost pornographic.