SBMM Ray34 Question

[CanadianFunk]

I've been looking at them Ray34's for a while now, and I was going to order one from long & mcquade this weekend. But I'm getting the impression from TB that 3 band EQ is bad...

I want that classic stingray sound, should I get a 2 band classic active instead? I was looking at those too, not a big fan of the finishes but I like the natural neck/headstock that they have as opposed to the neck/headstock on the ray34.

And to get the stingrays signature tone should I get a maple or rosewood fretboard? Does it make a really big difference which wood the fretboard is?

Finally, what strings do you recommend I get, and what kind of amp should I get for pop/slap playing?

Thanks in advance for the answers!
-Zack

[stflbn]

IMHO there isn't a huge difference character wise. It's more in how you use it. Keep in mind that everyone's idea of 'signature tone' is vastly different.

The Ray34's are fine basses and have a lot of tonal versatility with the 3-band preamp. Much more than with a 2-band preamp.


.

[CanadianFunk]

The greater versatility is good, but I read somewhere on TB that the 3 band EQ gives it a weird tinny sound... Which doesn't sound nice at all.
Is this true, in your experience?

[arsie]

Depends on what you consider the classic Stingray sound. I think many people prefer the 2 band EQ, you will also find fans of the 3 band EQ. Unless you are thinking of late 70s recordings of the Stingray sound, there is as much chance that you will have heard a 2 band as a 3 band. I think a majority of Stingrays are sold with the 3 band.

They do sound different, but they both sound Stingray. I am quite happy with my 3 band EQ, even though I do not usually turn my Treble any more than 1 up or 1 down from the detent. I have Chromes on mine, and cannot be happier, its a nice middle ground.

[Orpheus55]

I also love the 3-band Ray and find that the mid-range option is often useful as I seldom move the bass or treble much above or below the indent. That said, I never played a 2-band StingrayVarying technique and EQ will produce almost every useful sound one could need without sacrificng the essential character of the Stingray sound.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by CanadianFunk

I've been looking at them Ray34's for a while now, and I was going to order one from long & mcquade this weekend. But I'm getting the impression from TB that 3 band EQ is bad...

I want that classic stingray sound, should I get a 2 band classic active instead? I was looking at those too, not a big fan of the finishes but I like the natural neck/headstock that they have as opposed to the neck/headstock on the ray34.

And to get the stingrays signature tone should I get a maple or rosewood fretboard? Does it make a really big difference which wood the fretboard is?

Finally, what strings do you recommend I get, and what kind of amp should I get for pop/slap playing?

Thanks in advance for the answers!
-Zack

Don't worry about the neck wood.

3 or 2band is all fine. All Stingray. I like to control mids, so 3 band is cool... but I prefer the 2band sound...
So I have a 2band Stingray, and replaced the preamp with the John East one. This one models a classic 2band, and adds a parametric mid control. Fantastic sound. Well worth it.

Now the Ray34 is ok, but I would not pay for one of them new. Best to get a real Stingray used. Or a SUB, which is nearly the same and still a lot better than the Ray34.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by CanadianFunk

The greater versatility is good, but I read somewhere on TB that the 3 band EQ gives it a weird tinny sound... Which doesn't sound nice at all.
Is this true, in your experience?

No. It's different but It's still a good sound. Certainly not tinny.

[CanadianFunk]

I actually heard that the ray34's were of better quality then the SUB, that's not true?

[bassplayer1494]

i own a RAY34 and mine is made really good and sounds really good. It has a 3 band EQ which is good even though i want a classic stingray really bad. Im more for the 2 band EQ because it sounds better but the 3 band is pretty good. I never played a SUB before but ive heard some mixed things about it like the feel of it with the painted neck. Keep in mind too the RAY34 CA has a thinner jazz like neck than the standard RAY34. Just play the basses and see which one u like

[stflbn]

There's a plethora of "I heards" in this thread. Which is never good for accuracy or valid input.

The Ray34's and Ray35's are very very nice basses "for the money". A person who owns a classic stingray of course is going to be critical of them for different reasons. A person who owns a Sub is going to be critical of them because 'they' own a Sub. That's just they way humans are... what they own has to be preferred to validate their decision.

The Ray34/35's will get you 95% "or more" to a the sound of a 'real' stingray. Long time owners of higher dollar Rays will say they can feel some build differences, but in all honesty, the Ray34/35's are very well built for the money. There should be no shame or grief associated with buying one of these new import basses.

The difference between the two and three bands is the mid control, which you don't "HAVE" to touch if you don't want to. The John East aftermarket preamps mentioned above have the same frequency settings on the Two-band and Three-band. If you don't touch the mids on them... it's the same preamp, essentially. To my best understanding.

[SubSectorSucker]

There have been some very detailed explanations in this thread already, so I'll just give my quick personal experience. The difference between 2 and 3 band pre's is personal... I happen to prefer the 3. As far as the sbmms compare to the ebmm, I'd say the difference is negligible. I had a EBMM Ray for quite some time, and in my Opinion, my SBMM is just as good looking, sounding, and feeling. Maybe if I had them side by side, I could find some differences, but for my money, (and as often as I use a Ray), I would never spend the money for a us ray over the one I have.

[john grey]

I own a "real" MM & 2 EBMM and a SUB. I have compared them through the same amp and there are differences of course. That being said I was VERY impressed with the RAY34 and aside from the specifics of the sound (which has a lot to do with the strings by the way), the RAY comes out of the box with one of the best setup's I have seen. I was really taken back by the way the Orange CA people set up that Bass.
They don't sound like a ('03 2 band) SUB nor do they sound like an ancient original Music Man but they don't sound too far away from a 3 band EBMM standard StingRay if you have new same strings on both and both are set to flat. the differences are that the EBMM have a more sensitive pre amp, higher quality necks (some hardware improvements) and generally you get what you PAY FOR. You are talking about comparing a Bass that sells for less than $600 to a instrument costing more than twice that amount!

Additionally - if a RAY were played by a pro with a seriously pro amp and the EBMM were played back to back and the pre-amp was worked with.....THAT'S when you can start to hear the differences. If the amp is a Peavy (I'm NOT knocking Peavy; I own one) TNT or MAX w/ a single 15 combo practice amp....they are VERY close.
That's not "I heard from a friend"..."That's I hear it; I own 'em."

A RAY34 is a VERY good bass and if you need more electronics a G&L Tribute is a VERY good Bass. they are not the originals but they are VERY GOOD! For the money, out of the box the RAY is superb if you want a slap bass that has an excellent setup and costs less than $600, add another $100 and you have much more electronics with the G&L.
I happen to agree with the guy above me....but these are opinions and music is VERY subjective. YMMV.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by CanadianFunk

I actually heard that the ray34's were of better quality then the SUB, that's not true?

Not true.
On the SUB you get a real ray pickup, and electronics, and made in the same factory, all quality stuff. The pickup actually may be wired in series rather than parallel... although my SUB5 came with the alnico pickup in parallel.
The ray34 has different electronics, etc. They are not bad, but compared to a SUB, they just aren't there. They are prettier, but the SUB is a quality stingray.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by stflbn

There's a plethora of "I heards" in this thread. Which is never good for accuracy or valid input.

The Ray34's and Ray35's are very very nice basses "for the money". A person who owns a classic stingray of course is going to be critical of them for different reasons. A person who owns a Sub is going to be critical of them because 'they' own a Sub. That's just they way humans are... what they own has to be preferred to validate their decision.

The Ray34/35's will get you 95% "or more" to a the sound of a 'real' stingray. Long time owners of higher dollar Rays will say they can feel some build differences, but in all honesty, the Ray34/35's are very well built for the money. There should be no shame or grief associated with buying one of these new import basses.

The difference between the two and three bands is the mid control, which you don't "HAVE" to touch if you don't want to. The John East aftermarket preamps mentioned above have the same frequency settings on the Two-band and Three-band. If you don't touch the mids on them... it's the same preamp, essentially. To my best understanding.

Your best understanding is incorrect.
A 3band is not a 2band plus mid control. That's a common misconception. The freq centres and profile of the bass and treble controls are different on both preamps... otherwise the 3band would be without question better. But that's not The case.
The cool thing with the John East is you get the 2eq sound, if you like that, and a mid control with sweepable centre frequency, very very useful.

An alnico humbucker of the right type, at the right position, wired in parallel will always get you close.
The reason I would get a used Stingray or a SUB (I own both, as well as three OLP with and without preamps, with seymour duncan or nordstrand pickups) is that they are all round substantially better instruments... and additionally they will keep or improve their value... what's the resale value of a Ray34?

Not bad basses, the Ray34s... but there are clearly better options to buying a NEW Ray34. That's all.

[mdogs]

Don't own a Ray34, but I DO own an EBMM SR4 HH and a SUB 4 and both are killer. Personally I like the 3 band EQ vs the 2 band EQ on the older MM's. The SUB has a two band EQ which works extremely well, it is NOT the same as the older SR's, but it is excellent. As far as the painted neck goes, mine had it when I got it. The paint was wearing away in some spots which was no big deal and the paint was not really sticky, but I prefer necks with very little to no finish on them. So, I took the magical Mr. Clean eraser and took the paint off in about 20 minutes. They clearly seal the necks before they paint them as there was a slight sheen left after the paint removal. Another 5 minutes with a dry magic eraser and voila, a magical neck. As far as the construction on the SUB goes, every bit as good as the SR. The textured paint on the body is not my favorite, but it appears to be tough as nails and my instruments get a lot of use so... Of course, the hardware is different than the MM's, but it is sturdy and still in really good condition considering the age the amount of use the instrument has received so I have no reason to believe that it will not last a lot longer.

There is a very nice looking teal SUB on the bay right now with a HSC, worth a look!

[rayzak]

My first Stingray was a 3 band. I loved it, but stupidly sold it. I missed it so much, that I bought another Stingray, only the 2 band variety. I loved it! I recently sold it to fund a fretless Stingray, 3 band..... AND..... I LOVE IT!

In short, Stingray's rule in either version. They sound more similar than different, even though both have their fans. Just get the one you like and rock n roll!!!

[pudgychef]

agree 3 band EQ is not just 2 band plus mid - very different voicing imho

Ray 34s are good basses for the cash, prettier than SUBs but to me the SUBs seemed all around a little more solid - EBMM feeling (but I am biased having gigged one for a busy couple years)

[john grey]

My SUB is an '03 passive. It sounds quite a bit different than active units. Frankly, sound-wise I think its apples and oranges. They are SUBstantially different sounds. :smile:
There are TOO MANY rumors floating around about that whole group for me to ever comment again on them. But I have played a RAY & did a fairly good comparison and they are FAR for mediocre'. But you need to get them as they come from the US plant in Calif. NOT one that someone had "worked on".
However....Whether you buy a SUB or a RAY the idea would be to get one that hasn't been "fixed" by the previous owner. Any decent musical instrument can be ruined by people fixing what is not broken.

That's why unless the guy has REALLY decent pics and is VERY upfront, I will not buy a musical instrument from fleabay. It's just as likely to be a hassle getting your money back as getting a wonderful deal. But you can tell by the ad and if the guy gets back to you & is real. If he acts like he's doing you a favor by humbling himself to communicate with a mere buyer.....check CL for a local.

[mcnach]

Originally Posted by john grey

My SUB is an '03 passive. It sounds quite a bit different than active units. Frankly, sound-wise I think its apples and oranges. They are SUBstantially different sounds. :smile:

Is the pickup in your SUB wired in parallel or series? That could account for a lot of the difference. As far as I'm aware, some SUBs were wired in parallel and some in series... don't ask me why!
My SUB5 is parallel, alnico, just like a 4-string Stingray (well, with the extra polepieces, obviously ) and active.

I have never seen a passive one in person, although I'm aware they exist. I had a bypass switch fitted to my 2002 Stingray, and even in passive mode it's got the signature Stingray sound. If your SUB seems to lack "Stingrayness" I'd guess it has a series-wired pickup.