SCRAP LUMBER BASS vs. ALDER BASS - Can You Tell The Difference??

[younggun]

Originally Posted by BassDudeSA

But you know what? What in the hell do I know about my tone anyway? I know what it sounds like in front of my amp, but not out in front of the PA. I am more familiar with how other guys sound. I go to all kinds of shows. Local bands in small and large clubs, small national acts, big time national acts. It is a rare occasion with ANY of them where I hear "tone". Usually what I hear is just bass, ocassionally I might here the subtleties of tone, and usually that is just the EQ or a bit of distortion or chorus. Hell, as long as the bass tone I am hearing is not muddy then all is good, but almost half the time it is muddy, no matter what band it is.

IMO, we obsess about tone and all that goes into it because we are passionate about our craft. What does that search for tone do for us? Nada, not much. We may go to a rehearsal and someone says, "hey, I like your tone". Or at a gig even. But most people don't even notice that. We obsess for our own good. We get bored if we are not working on something, and just playing your bass is often not enough, we want to feel like we are improving ourselves in another way, and by being picky about wood, or strings, or pickups, we think we are helping ourselves out. I say we are not doing anything but obsessing. But that's OK, we have fun with it, because.... well.... WE ROCK!

This kind of thinking applies only in certain situations: loud gigs...rock, pop, and bar band type stuff. When I go to Jazz gigs, which is primarily the music I watch and play live, the tone of the bass (and every instrument) is VERY apparent (so sorry man, I don't "ROCK").
A combo playing in a small setting has no need to be loud, and have anyone's tone "lost in the mix". Generally the type of listener at a gig like that is very interested in how the instruments actually sound, and often comment on it.
Striving for good tone and sound out of your instrument is not "obsessing"; its taking a professional approach to your playing and performance.

[Ric5]

not only does all wood sound the same but also all amps sound the same as well and all strings sound the same and all pickups sound the same

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Originally Posted by Ric5

not only does all wood sound the same but also all amps sound the same as well and all strings sound the same and all pickups sound the same

All wood definitely does NOT sound the same. I don't think anyone here has made such a claim. That I know of.

[BassDudeSA]

Originally Posted by younggun

This kind of thinking applies only in certain situations: loud gigs...rock, pop, and bar band type stuff. When I go to Jazz gigs, which is primarily the music I watch and play live, the tone of the bass (and every instrument) is VERY apparent (so sorry man, I don't "ROCK").
A combo playing in a small setting has no need to be loud, and have anyone's tone "lost in the mix". Generally the type of listener at a gig like that is very interested in how the instruments actually sound, and often comment on it.
Striving for good tone and sound out of your instrument is not "obsessing"; its taking a professional approach to your playing and performance.

You are correct in that I am more of a rocker, however I will argue the point that tone is equally important in rock as it is jazz and other forms of music. Maybe not to you, but to others it is. I mainly talked about live bass tone where rock performers, jazz performers and country performers from my experience vary little in tone, other than occasional effects. Bass just sounds like bass, and any differences in tone that are perceived are usually no better or worse than others, though muddy does suck.

Regarding recorded music, that is a whole other matter where tone plays a more prominant role. Though with all the processing and everything involved, certain things like the wood used on the bass are fairly minimal, if evident at all on the final recording. More important once again is EQ, effects (if any) compression, strings and most important of all, technique.

[Ric5]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

All wood definitely does NOT sound the same. I don't think anyone here has made such a claim. That I know of.

ok ... but Gene Simmons once said all amps sound the same ...

[chadds]

Originally Posted by BassDudeSA

Give me ANY halfway decent bass with new roundwounds, and a nice amp with good EQ and I'll mix my tone in and get a great sound everytime. The differences in wood, pickups or anything else will be of minimal importance as compared to how I EQ my bass. EQ trumps everything. More highs, fuller lows, punchier mids, etc. Doesn't matter where the starting point is on the bass itself. The actual wood used on the bass itself may make some kind of difference to start with, but as soon as I turn even one knob or slider on that EQ, any subtleties created by the wood itself will be mixed right out. As it should be.

You made my point that some people eq away the native sounds of their basses.

[chadds]

Originally Posted by Ric5

ok ... but Gene Simmons once said all amps sound the same ...

....and Gene is the goto guy for our tone goals?

[MarkA]

Hunh, I don't even remember what I was searching for when I found this thread. I missed the poll, but, for the record, I guessed correctly (I guess you'll just have to take my word for it). However, I was VERY surprised by how close the tones were. I had to listen several times and, even then, the only thing I could settle on with any degree of certainty was which two were the same and which take was the odd duck. I would happily gig the plank, though.

Actually, I just got an idea.

EDIT: Okay, tonally, I'd happily gig the plank. I have my doubts about the tape and exposed wiring. And 23 pages? I'll have to read the rest of this thread in chunks over the next several days. An amusing little quiz, though.

[younggun]

Originally Posted by BassDudeSA

You are correct in that I am more of a rocker, however I will argue the point that tone is equally important in rock as it is jazz and other forms of music. Maybe not to you, but to others it is. I mainly talked about live bass tone where rock performers, jazz performers and country performers from my experience vary little in tone, other than occasional effects. Bass just sounds like bass, and any differences in tone that are perceived are usually no better or worse than others, though muddy does suck.

Regarding recorded music, that is a whole other matter where tone plays a more prominant role. Though with all the processing and everything involved, certain things like the wood used on the bass are fairly minimal, if evident at all on the final recording. More important once again is EQ, effects (if any) compression, strings and most important of all, technique.

Please don't put words in my mouth. At no point did I say that bass tone doesn't matter in rock. That would be a ridiculous and ignorant statement and I didn't make it. Stick to the discussion, instead of an ad-hominem attack on me. I'm not attacking you, I'm disagreeing with your statement.

You made the point that tone doesn't matter at live shows because the listener can rarely tell the difference due to it being lost in the mix, and worrying about tone is only the player "obsessing". I disagree with that line of thought. If the gig is too loud (as many are), or the sound system sucks, or the other musicians are not mixed well, then of course the bass tone won't be recognizable. But bass does not just sound like bass, IF you're at a gig that isn't too loud and the musicians and/or sound people know what they're doing. Nuff said on my part. No amount of me saying anything different will change your mind.

[BassDudeSA]

Originally Posted by younggun

Please don't put words in my mouth. At no point did I say that bass tone doesn't matter in rock. That would be a ridiculous and ignorant statement and I didn't make it. Stick to the discussion, instead of an ad-hominem attack on me. I'm not attacking you, I'm disagreeing with your statement.

You made the point that tone doesn't matter at live shows because the listener can rarely tell the difference due to it being lost in the mix, and worrying about tone is only the player "obsessing". I disagree with that line of thought. If the gig is too loud (as many are), or the sound system sucks, or the other musicians are not mixed well, then of course the bass tone won't be recognizable. But bass does not just sound like bass, IF you're at a gig that isn't too loud and the musicians and/or sound people know what they're doing. Nuff said on my part. No amount of me saying anything different will change your mind.

Mr. Sensitive are we? I didn't say that you said that. Maybe you are reading in to something a little too much. All I said is that tone might not be as important to you in rock as it is to you in jazz. And an attack on you? Sorry dude but you might need some sleep or something, no attack was made or implied.

[Roscoe East]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

A friend of mine built an electric 'cello using the neck, bridge, & tailpiece from a real 'cello, attached to a 4' chunk of pressure-treated lumber. Looked a lot like your Lumber Bass there.

He stuck a Schertler pickup on it, and voila! it sounded like a really nice electric 'cello!

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by Roscoe East

A friend of mine built an electric 'cello using the neck, bridge, & tailpiece from a real 'cello, attached to a 4' chunk of pressure-treated lumber. Looked a lot like your Lumber Bass there.

He stuck a Schertler pickup on it, and voila! it sounded like a really nice electric 'cello!

Les Paul's original electric "log" was a piece of 4x4 reportedly made from a railroad tie with a neck and body sides grafted on:

[younggun]

Originally Posted by BassDudeSA

Mr. Sensitive are we? I didn't say that you said that. Maybe you are reading in to something a little too much. All I said is that tone might not be as important to you in rock as it is to you in jazz. And an attack on you? Sorry dude but you might need some sleep or something, no attack was made or implied.

To refresh your memory:

...however I will argue the point that tone is equally important in rock as it is jazz and other forms of music. Maybe not to you, but to others it is.

You are trying to de-value my logical statement, by characterizing me as something I am not through the above statement. Now I'm "Sensitive" and "might need some sleep". Look up ad hominem fallacy sometime.

Putting that aside, and actually returning to the discussion: your original premise is a flawed sweeping generalization, that you have now shifted position on. You made the statement that bass players are obsessing on their tone, and this obsessing has no noticeable effect when heard by the audience:

What does that search for tone do for us? Nada, not much. We may go to a rehearsal and someone says, "hey, I like your tone". Or at a gig even. But most people don't even notice that.

Now you have shifted that position and are saying tone IS important and tried to somehow qualify that statement by adding the red herring of "recorded music" to your argument:

...tone is equally important in rock as it is jazz and other forms of music....Regarding recorded music, that is a whole other matter where tone plays a more prominant role.

So I'm confused about your thought process, is tone an unimportant "obsession" which garners no practical result or advantage, or is it something essential for a bass musician to develop? You've now taken both positions.

[-=DanAtkinson=-]

Just like some of us swear we can hear big differences in wood tone, some of us swear we can hear big differences in audio cables. I just came across this video and thought I would share:

Studio Monitors - Cable comparison shoot out - The DSP Project on Vimeo

Just goes to show how much of what we think we hear is brain trickery.

Again, I'm not saying wood doesn't matter at all. I'm simply trying to enlighten those who focus too much attention, time, and money on wood species in their tone quest.

[bassbully]

Here's one I was wondering if it had come up on here. What about basses like Danelectro's? I just bought a 58' Dead on RI Longhorn (which I have wanted forever) and it has great tone and is a blast to play. It has a plywood frame and 3/8 masonite top and bottom. Them be some great tone woods there? How can those who say wood matters explain this simple bass?

[DJ Bebop]

Plug in, turn up, shut up!

[DJ Bebop]

Originally Posted by bassbully

Here's one I was wondering if it had come up on here. What about basses like Danelectro's? I just bought a 58' Dead on RI Longhorn (which I have wanted forever) and it has great tone and is a blast to play. It has a plywood frame and 3/8 masonite top and bottom. Them be some great tone woods there? How can those who say wood matters explain this simple bass?

Originally Posted by DJ Bebop

Plug in, turn up, shut up!

[nukes_da_bass]

Gotta love zombie threads- 6 months and 10 days between posts!!!

Wood matters Dan Atkinson! Lol.

Dan i am sad to see on your website you no longer offer 5 strings. Your instruments look and sound terrific.
Nukes

[chadds]

Originally Posted by BassDudeSA

You are correct in that I am more of a rocker, however I will argue the point that tone is equally important in rock as it is jazz and other forms of music. Maybe not to you, but to others it is. I mainly talked about live bass tone where rock performers, jazz performers and country performers from my experience vary little in tone, other than occasional effects. Bass just sounds like bass, and any differences in tone that are perceived are usually no better or worse than others, though muddy does suck.

Regarding recorded music, that is a whole other matter where tone plays a more prominant role. Though with all the processing and everything involved, certain things like the wood used on the bass are fairly minimal, if evident at all on the final recording. More important once again is EQ, effects (if any) compression, strings and most important of all, technique.

The fact that many sound the same has no affect on my sound, which is not, the same.

[mongo2]

Originally Posted by -=DanAtkinson=-

Just goes to show how much of what we think we hear is brain trickery.

Well, you *think* you can't hear much of a difference in woods.