Serious discussion: buying Squier instead of Fender MIM or made in USA

[Baird6869]

Originally Posted by pacojas

the OP is cracking me up!

Yup.

I love my Squier (did i mention that?) but a MIA Fender is a better bass 99% of the time.

If modding a Squier made a better bass than a factory MIA Fender, why doesn't more than a very few % of pro FMIC endorsers/players use them live?

Enough going in circles for me in any case.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Hi there,

after 14 years playing bass (with an Ibanez lawsuit Jazz Bass copy and a 1980 Fender Precision Special), followed by 20 years only playing guitar (Gretsch 6118-T120, Gibson Les Paul deluxe, several Telecasters, several Stratocasters) I finally switched back to bass.

Because it's the best instrument for me and at all.:-)

As I sold my old basses, I had to buy a new bass.

I checked all the basses by Fender, from Custom shop to Squier.

And I bought a Squier Deluxe Jazz bass V, for under 300 Euros (an old classmate has about 20 musicshops in germany - means special prices for me...)

My opinion:
The Fender guys are very smart - they set different priceranges for Fender US, Fender MIM, Fender MIJ) and Squier, to satisfy all purses and needs.

And I checked them nearly all.

Result: The Fender US aren't worth the money.
The difference in price is much bigger than the difference in qualitiy and sound.
The Fender US basses are quite nice but too expensive.

Ok, they may use the better wood for US than for MIM and Squiers - but about 50 or 60 percent of the sound is the electronics - you can exchange that to better stuff, and it's still cheaper than an US or MIM Fender.

The audience won't hear a different anyways, nobody can hear the sound difference between an original 1960 stacked pots Jazz Bass and a 2012 Squier Jazz Bass, if the whole band is playing, the audience standing 20 Meters away from amplifiers, or even amplified via P.A.... No chance to hear a difference.

And where is the difference in qualitiy, if a mexican is building the bass in mexico - or his brother as an immigrant in the US is building the same bass in the USA?

I won't offend the Fender USA customers, but for me there is one conclusion:
for Fender style I only buy Squier and maybe make mods on it - and save the money to go on vacation with my girl....;-)

And what's your opinion?

Greetz

If a Squier works for you, there's really no reason not to buy one. They're cut on CNC machines just like the MIAs and MIMs, so they're pretty consistent in construction, and not that far off the mark fit-and-finish wise.

Your comment that the MIAs aren't worth the money could be considered mildly inflammatory around these parts, but to me it's just silly. Aside from the fact that superior wood and electronics are used in building them, the fact that Fender will sell each and every one they build proves that they are worth the money.

Then you mentioned that you do mods to your Squiers. I suppose that would be to try to bring them closer to the quality of an MIA, then?

[jamminology101]

I have 15 basses...sadowskys, lakelands, warwicks, ibanez grooveline, Gibson grabber3 tribute, and a bunch of fenders, including one of the first 100 select jazzes, 2011 American jazz, 04 precision deluxe,89 power jazz,09 victor Bailey jazz, 82 fullerton reissue '60 stacked knob candy apple custom color.....and a squire jazz that was $300. The squire definitely sounds the "worst" of the jazzes....the electronics n sound are kinda dull and the thing looks/feels like a cheap bass(because it is) there is no finish on the neck and u can see a few knots on the wood thru the laquer....a very uninspiring bass ....but still sounds like a jazz...a dull jazz. I wouldn't hesitate playing it live but comparitively speaking it doesn't hold a candle to my American jazzes....nor did I ever expect it to. I don't have any experience with the Mexican ones, but the couple of japanese fenders I have r head n shoulders above squires.

[satellite4]

Originally Posted by Figjam

I care just as much if not more about how a bass feels as how it sounds. Generally, I rank Fenders as follows

Vintage USA
Japanese
MIM first 2 years of production
USA
Chinese
MIM
Korean
Indonesian

Some really good Fender-related info in this thread at least

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by MrUsefulAlien

It's not that what you say is not correct, it in fact mostly is. Your choice of words make you come off as not very friendly, which in turn makes it harder to accept the truths that you put forth. That's all I was illustrating.

What can I say - I'm generally not very friendly when someone's pi$$ing down my back and telling me it's raining... As I said, I've seen this sort of thing play out many times here - to be honest, I think that may have been the 1st time I've ever used the phrase "do a search"... As for "accepting the truths I put forth" - it's no skin off my nose, either way...

I don't bash the instrument choices of others, but the near constant Fender and MIA bashing is getting old...


- georgestrings

[jamminology101]

Modifying squire = polishing a turd

[2meterbassman]

Hi folks,

for me it isn't so important, if someone sounds very kind or not.
Don't make such a big affair out of it.
Everything is fine.
Only one thing, because someone said, this is no serious discussion, because I wouldn't allow other opinions.

To allow other's opinions means not to give up the own opinion!!!!!!!!!!!

And discussion isn't saying the own opinion and it is done.
A discussion is using arguments to prove if the own opinion is the right thing.
As others do the same, the result of a discussion might be a new, third opinion.
Or not.

So, everything is ok, greetz

[rockinrayduke]

No arguing with you, my friend. Rock on.

[ChuckTrucks]

Listen.

If you didnt own it you wouldnt like it. Now that you own it, its great.

Trust me, I know the feeling. Im a musician and if it sounds good to me then it is good because I only like good stuff.

However I wouldn't make a post and try to generalize the entire Fender line. Let alone all basses, like people often try to do.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by jamminology101

Modifying squire = polishing a turd

I agree with others that Squiers may not be as well made as Fenders (yet still well-made in and of themselves), this statement is simply ridiculous. And it's spelled "Squier".
Oh, and FYI, there are no Squiers that have unfinished necks.

[2meterbassman]

Originally Posted by ChuckTrucks

Listen.

If you didnt own it you wouldnt like it. Now that you own it, its great.

Trust me, I know the feeling. Im a musician and if it sounds good to me then it is good because I only like good stuff.

However I wouldn't make a post and try to generalize the entire Fender line. Let alone all basses, like people often try to do.

Mmmmh,

there are a lot of basses I like, but I don't own them.
There are a lot of basses I like, but I don't want to have them (ok, maybe as a gift).
There are a lot of basses, I could afford - even up to high end basses.

But: I only buy what is good enough for my sound, my playing skills and my quality needs.
Because I just don't want to spend more money as necessary.
And if the right bass for me costs 5.000 dollars, I buy it - and if it costs only 300 dollars. 4.700 dollars saved.
Doing it 4 times means a new nice car....

So I am happy about the overall quality of the Squiers, and just wanted to ask others for their reasons to buy such expensive basses as Fender CS etc.
I'm just curious, that's all.

Greetz

PS: next bass will be a handmade bass by a guitarbuilder, for sure....

[2meterbassman]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

I agree with others that Squiers may not be as well made as Fenders (yet still well-made in and of themselves), this statement is simply ridiculous. And it's spelled "Squier".
Oh, and FYI, there are no Squiers that have unfinished necks.

Maybe he was talking about Chris Squire, hahahahahaha.....

[ChuckTrucks]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

But: I only buy what is good enough for my sound, my playing skills and my quality needs.
Because I just don't want to spend more money as necessary.
And if the right bass for me costs 5.000 dollars, I buy it - and if it costs only 300 dollars. 4.700 dollars saved.
Doing it 4 times means a new nice car....

Whatever you say!

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Hi,

Not regarding that some of your arguments are just jokes, of course I didn't test ALL single instruments named Fender, I checked all LINES of instruments:

Every instrumenst of one line may sound different, some more, some less.
But the single line of instruments has a range of quality in sound etc. that is similar in that line.
And it's true: the number of "dead sounding" basses by Squier maybe higher than instruments by Fender MIA.
But I checked a MM Stingray last week. Costs: over 2.500 euros.
The whole instrument was a deadspot. No sound at all. Crap. Garbage. So: not only cheap instruments can be dead.

Sure: there are Squier and Fender MIA basses with alder bodies.
But there is cheap alder on the market and better alder.
There are one piece bodies - and 8 piece bodies and so on...
And there are Jaco Pastorius Signature Fender Jazz Basses with 2 piece bodies, and the bookmatched grain isn't really bookmatched and looked like crap.
Seen in a shop in germany - for 6.000 Euros! Idiots.

And of course, it's in your hands - but you can't buy hands or talent, so it can't be an argument in a discussion about prices of instruments. A better player will always sound better than me - not important on which instrument.

As you can read in this thread, a friend of mine made a pickup-flip test wiith a CS telecaster and a cheapo. Read it, and you know what I mean: 60 percent of an electric instrument's sound is the pickups and the electronics.

My first bass, an Ibanez lawsuit Jazz Bass (last lawsuit series).
The body was made of, mmmmh, pinguin excrements? I don't know which wood they used, maybe poplar, it was a 6 piece body!
The neck was something like maple I think.
And then, about 1980, I put a pair of DiMarzio pickups in it (the creme coloured and hot ones) - and you know what:
it blowed away every Fender Jazz Bass - we compared it in the shop where they switched the pickups for me.

And if I see the Squier Deluxe Jazz Bass V I bought some months ago and compare it to the old Ibanez (both in the same price range, including inflation, the Ibanez even with the DiMarzio PUps) - the Squier is a palace, and the old Ibanez is a pigsty...

Greetz

Originally Posted by pacojas

hey George,..

do you know why there are so many "Squier Worship" threads?

because Squier owners need to support one another... it's as if, if you buy one the need arises to validate your purchase by saying the MIA's are over-priced versions of a Squier!

∴QED.

[2meterbassman]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

∴QED.

...or MIA-players won't admit that they spend too much money for only a little bit more quality, and that's why they talk Squiers in the dust.

Same ******** - otherwise.

In a discussion, you need arguments - and not only subordinations...

Greetz

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

...or MIA-players won't admit that they spend too much money for only a little bit more quality, and that's why they talk Squiers in the dust.

Same ******** - otherwise.

In a discussion, you need arguments - and not only subordinations...

Greetz

Every post you've made in this thread is my argument. I own four Fenders, three MIAs and one CIJ. But they are the least expensive of the 17 basses I own. I've really wasted some big money on my other basses, because most of them are the subjects of the ubiquitous "Are [insert brand here] basses worth it/overrated?" threads that run so rampant here. Your thread is like the primary school version of them, having been posted at least a hundred times previously. Maybe I should've just stuck with "Do a search."

As I stated in my first post in this thread, if a Squier gooses your gander, buy it, play it, love it. Why is is necessary to belittle superior instruments to justify your preference? Nobody here cares whether you play a Squier or a Rogue.

[LanOsb133]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

...or MIA-players won't admit that they spend too much money for only a little bit more quality, and that's why they talk Squiers in the dust.

Same ******** - otherwise.

In a discussion, you need arguments - and not only subordinations...

Greetz

I didn't read all 4 pages but here is my input.

I love my MIA P bass, It will be worth more and hold its value FAR BETTER than your squire. My bass is far different than the STD Americans but Fender Americans will hold their value. I personally don't feel a difference between the Squires (If set up good) and some Fender MIA's. But would I pick up a squire? If I want a good gig bass that I can destroy and not have to care about yes. But would I buy a Squire over a MIA for the long term? No. Never. It will never hold its value.

MIA's and Squires can't be compared. They are two different monsters for two different people. They will never be comparable. Sure you can argue that they are similar but they are still two different instruments for two different purposes. One will be sell able for money in the future and the other is a good player that you will never get money for. /Thread.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by LanOsb133

I didn't read all 4 pages but here is my input.

I love my MIA P bass, It will be worth more and hold its value FAR BETTER than your squire. My bass is far different than the STD Americans but Fender Americans will hold their value. I personally don't feel a difference between the Squires (If set up good) and some Fender MIA's. But would I pick up a squire? If I want a good gig bass that I can destroy and not have to care about yes. But would I buy a Squire over a MIA for the long term? No. Never. It will never hold its value.

MIA's and Squires can't be compared. They are two different monsters for two different people. They will never be comparable. Sure you can argue that they are similar but they are still two different instruments for two different purposes. One will be sell able for money in the future and the other is a good player that you will never get money for. /Thread.

... and then you have your Squiers.

[2meterbassman]

Munjibunga,

I don't answer to your comments anymore, because you have no arguments, just offendings.

bye

[Emibass]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

...or MIA-players won't admit that they spend too much money for only a little bit more quality, and that's why they talk Squiers in the dust.

Same ******** - otherwise.

In a discussion, you need arguments - and not only subordinations...

Greetz

I have a MIA Jazz, and I don´t talk Squier in the dust, and out of my time spended on talkbass, the majority nither.
Of course there are exception but let´s not generalize this.

I really like Squiers, I maybe get a Squier precision to accompany the basses I already have.

But really, even if you modify them, they won´t get on par to a MIA. But for the money, they´re killer basses.

Also, MIA Fenders are a standard, every bass I try I compare it to the MIA Fender. The neck on my jazz is really hard to beat. And yes, I tried from cheap to really high-end without care for what is written on the headstock