Serious discussion: buying Squier instead of Fender MIM or made in USA

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Munjibunga,

I don't answer to your comments anymore, because you have no arguments, just offendings.

bye

_{... ouch ouch ouch ...}

[2meterbassman]

Hi Emibass,

of course, the Fender J- and P-basses are the standard, every other bass is compared to.

And a MIA will be better than a Squier, in playability and quality.

But I don't think, it will SOUND remarkable better, if you put really good replacement PUps in the Squier.

But that isn't the point.

For me, it's just the question, if the MIAs are really so much better than they are more expensive.

Or the Fender CS relic Basses and guitars: oh my god.
Beside I don't like that relic stuff, because it's not buying design, it is buying a fake image - why 4,500 to 7,500 dollars for a guitar or bass that is only 10 or 20 percent better than a MIA for about 1,200 dollars?

For 4,500 dollars, you can buy 2 special made basses for your needs, made by a guitarbuilder in your area. With each detail as you want it, without compromises.

Or you buy a Sadowsky or Lakland - I think both are better than similar prized Fenders.

I just can't understand, why people buy stuff because of the name, that's why I showed my opinion and asked for others.

But maybe it's not a logic thing - maybe it's seeing the bass, falling in love with it and buying it?
Would be a nice deal, too.

Greetz

[xroads]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

For me, it's just the question, if the MIAs are really so much better than they are more expensive.


Greetz

The world is not linear. For the last 5% of performance, you might have to pay 300%. You make wrong assumptions. However, as others have said, play what makes you happy.

I have no horse in this race, I have checked out several P- and J-Fender basses, have built my opinion, and bought a Yamaha.

[Emibass]

I think quality is subjuctive.

We, costumers, believe that if a bass is double the price as the other it must be double better. But this is not true. To make a bass maybe a 20% better, you have to work the double or more.

Is a Metro Sadowsky worth the double price of a MIA Fender. There are people that do believe and willing to pay for it and there are that don´t.

[Klonk]

Together with "which is the best bass for metal" this is the most popular topic on these boards. Unfortunately, that means you won't get a good deal of constructive debate, since the topic is well covered and buried by now.

[LanOsb133]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

And a MIA will be better than a Squier, in playability and quality.
But I don't think, it will SOUND remarkable better, if you put really good replacement PUps in the Squier.

Lets start with this shall we? A bass that plays well will give you a better sound. As it was said previously You're sound comes from your fingers, finger placement and how you strum/strike/finger/pick/pluck/slap/slide a string. It is definitely NOT about the electronics and more about the wood and play ability. Because in the end of the day, (when playing gigs) the only person who will know how good/bad your bass is is you and other bassists. Is the MIA better? Sure it is. You are less likely to get a lemon or have anything go wrong. The craftsmanship is better and the wood will more than likely age MUCH better and sound much better than your Cheap-o Squire.

Why is wood important? Because it gives you YOUR sound. Each wood has a different density. Like for instance a Ash body will be heavier than a Alder body, why? Because the Ash is a thicker wood and you have more particles (or something, I'm no scientist) in the same volume. What is this good for? Well Ash guitars usually have a different tone than an Alder. Don't believe me? Go play an Ash bass and an Alder bass (make sure they are the same electronics and neck) and you will hear the difference. I personally prefer ash over Alder as it sounds better to my ears and personally I find when not being plugged in I can hear the Ash better than the Alder. And thats JUST the Body! THe neck has a HUGE factor aswell! All in all, MIA will be better because of the choice of wood and the craftsmanship. Sure pickups do change the tone but not by 50-60%. Most of the tone you get is from the Body (IMO)

Alright so lets jump into Part 2.

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Or the Fender CS relic Basses and guitars: oh my god.
Beside I don't like that relic stuff, because it's not buying design, it is buying a fake image - why 4,500 to 7,500 dollars for a guitar or bass that is only 10 or 20 percent better than a MIA for about 1,200 dollars?

You have obviously never owned/Played for an extended period of time a Fender CS.

You say you are buying a "fake image" Thats 100% BS. Lets start with the Necks. On a Relic'd Bass, the necks are what you would call "worn in." They feel much nice, play much faster and all around just feel amazing in the hands. Its no a fake image, its a Simulated Image of what the bass should be like if played for the 50+ years it would have been if it was made in the 50's. The bodies are also the same way, If you had a bass for 50+ years you are bound to accidently hit it (unless its a closet queen) and you are bound to get wear marks on the bass if you gig it and actually play it for hours and hours each week. (But fender CS do offer a NON RELIC basses) There is nothing "Fake" about this image. Its like you saying "This picture was supposed to be colored but now its Black and white. Its fake" Its not a fake picture, its a picture that has been altered to meet a different standard. A standard you may or may not like but a different standard none the less.

End of the day, you get what you pay for and the squires are amazing instruments for the price. And while YOU might not find that the 10-20% is worth the price MANY MANY people do. Thats why Fender MIA's are STILL IN PRODUCTION and will continue to be.

P.S. Sorry if some of this doesn't make sense, I'm quite tired.

[soulman969]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Hi Emibass,

of course, the Fender J- and P-basses are the standard, every other bass is compared to.

An a MIA will be better than a Squier, in playability and quality.

But I don't think, it will SOUND remarkable better, if you put really good replacement PUps in the Squier.


But that isn't the point.

For me, it's just the question, if the MIAs are really so much better than they are more expensive..

Greetz

IME this really the heart. I've owned about a dozen MIA Fender Basses over the years and the two Squiers I have now a comparable in quality and playability to any of them with the possible exception of a Jazz Deluxe I owned.

The fit and finish and feel of that bass was a little better but it was also an $1800 plus instrument so I think that was to be expected. But, I still didn't care much for the sound and the active electronics.

Players replace the pickups in Squier CVs because the like something better just like I did. It's not because they need to be replaced. I've watched a CV 60s Jazz being compared to a 62RI and with your eyes closed you wouldn't know which was which. Isn't that pretty much the same with strings since those two factors will have more to do with how the bass sounds than anything else. We change those to suit our tastes as well.

Well all know the reasons why an MIA Fender bass is more costly than a MIC Squier. That's been beat to death 100 times over. Some can justify spending that much more for a marginally better MIA Fender Bass and others can't. If Fender wasn't selling them at all different price points they'd stop making those that weren't selling.

I happen to like Bill Lawrence's Wilde Pickups so that's what I play. Even with those pickups installed I have less into my two Squiers than even one new or even a used MIA would cost and IMHO they sound better to me than any stock MIA Standard and play just as well. I'm satisfied and that's all that's important to me.

I really don't care what name is on the headstock. Everything I care about is below that anyway and that's that part I play. To each his own.

[mdogs]

Why do I continue to read these threads? Everyone has "facts" but no ones facts match, hmmm. What you have people are OPINIONS nothing more, nothing less. For at least the 1,000,000th time, if you can't tell the difference between a Squire and an MIA Fender, by all means get the Squire. For those of us who wish to buy higher quality, I want to thank Fender for continuing to build MIA basses.

A cowboy would shoot this horse...if it weren't already dead.

[rockinrayduke]

C'mon, get some coffee.

[miles'tone]

88.2% of statistics are made up on the spot. - Vic Reeves, comedian.

[petrus61]

I think you get what you pay for. Both are nice in their respective price ranges. Squier means something quite different now than it did some years ago. The fact is they just don't match a US when it comes to hardware and parts but the parts they do have are completely playable. Construction can be hit or miss with both, just like at any price point in the sub $2000 range. It's my experience that the US is simply a better all around bass at the end of the day. To me, the piece in both cases justifies the cost, with some outlyers on both sides. My sole bass right now is a Squier VM5. It gets the job done fine, is built and finished beautifully and plays perfect, but I know from experience there is better (for me) out there and when the time comes, I will be choosing that one.

[diegobxr]

Well actually I do have a fact.

The brand is SQUIER.
Not Squire.

For God's sake, it can't be so difficult to memorize. Would it kill you to spell it right???

SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER SQUIER

Thanks.

Now feel free to continue beating this dead horse.
Cheers.

[AMJBASS]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Sorry, I think, you compare the wrong things.

The mod on the Squier would be to use BETTER PUps and electronics than in the MIA basses - and the package would be 800 dollars.

And the playability would be better, because the included pro setup (leveling frets, fretwork, neck adjust, bridge, nut etc.) is much better than the Fender factory setup.

The Fender factory setup is really bad.

So you have 2 instruments, here are the facts:
Squier with better PUps, better electronics and better setup than the MIA for 800 dollars.
The Fender MIA has better wood (which is only 30 percent of the sound), and maybe better lacquer. Maybe. Really only maybe, if I look at the paintjob on my Squier.

Which one will play better? The Squier, because of the setup.
Which one will sound better, via amplifier? The Squier, because of better electronics and PUps.
Which one will sound better without amplifier? The Fender MIA, but it's not important vor an electric (!!!) bass.

And for playing the worse bass, I should pay 400 dollars more?

No, thanks, not 4 me.

That's what I think about it.

If you want to have the name Fender on it: ok, buy it.
If you want to buy american: ok, buy it.
If the reseller price is important: ok, buy it.
And many other arguments for buying a MIA Fender.

And now you maybe wanna know why I tell you my opinion again and again?

Very simple: because I am so happy about my Squier, how it feels, plays, sounds - and I am so happy to be back on the bass again, it is like coming home.
I am practicing 1 to 2 hours per day, because I have to refresh my technical skills after 20 years only playing guitar - and I always end my lessons with a big smile!

:-)

Greetz

You are missing the point a bit. An MIA Fender is already good out of the box. You don't need to take it to a luthier and put money into it. Its already got upgraded electronics(in fact the new ones use Custom Shop pickups which are as good as ANY aftermarket pickup). It already has a clean playing fretboard with the nut cut correctly. You may need to adjust the action, but that goes for any bass as it is individual taste.

Honestly, I don't want to rip on anyone that prefers their Squier. I have had several, and if you find a good one it can be a TERRIFIC bass. I have used them in the studio, and live with no issues. I just personally think that if you are set on buying one and upgrading it to make it like an MIA Fender, you might as well buy an MIA Fender and have all the extra perks for very little extra cost. Buy one for what it is, not what it could be.

[bassbully]

Whatever, All I know is thru the years I sold off all my MIA Fenders and was left playing good MIMs and Squiers. Today it is just Squiers, 3 Early 80's MIJ SQ's that Fender wished they made that good today along with a Vista Musicmaster.

If you know how to shop, use your ear, and do mods you can make a Squier sing and save money. If you don't want the hassles buy MIA or a good model MIM.

To say one is better is in the player not the bass. I also 100% agree that anybody listening to you play live can't tell the diff and most could care less.

[sigmafloyd]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

Sorry, I think, you compare the wrong things.

The Fender MIA has better wood (which is only 30 percent of the sound), and maybe better lacquer. Maybe. Really only maybe, if I look at the paintjob on my Squier.

I think wood is actually 31% of the sound

[sigmafloyd]

Originally Posted by 2meterbassman

The Fodera thing is just another subject.
To me, a Fodera ist completely another class in quality, playability and sound as the Fender CS.
It's nearly the same price range, but the Fodera is much better.
Another proof for Fender US prizes are too high.

I'd like to see these Fodera's that are close to the same price as a Fender CS.

You've really been busy if you just switched back to bass and not only played all of the Fender offerings but also a bunch of Foderas as well. The music stores by you must be a lot better than the ones by me.

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by jamminology101

Modifying squire = polishing a turd

It's been established beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is possible to put a gleaming shine on a turd.

So, exactly what are you saying?

That the Squier brand is equivalent to a turd? Is the performance that bad that it can't be dressed up? Even though I have no dog in the fight, I say that's a dead-end argument.

[Edward G.]

Originally Posted by sigmafloyd

I think wood is actually 31% of the sound

I hate wood.

[Arjankoster]

I believe what's most important in the end is how a bass makes you feel. Ofcourse, it has to be playable and sound good. But when those standards are met, beauty, feel and all those other factors come into play. Let's be honest, if you feel good and special with that beatutiful, special bass in your hands, something special happens and you can get very much inspired indeed.

I also think that's why people have so many different opinions on whether or not the more expensive basses are "worth the money". If you want to feel special again, you will probably want to buy a new, more expensive axe.

[Russell L]

Haven't read all the replies, but I think the MIA Fenders are better than Squire and the MIM Fenders. The price is high, yes, but worth it, IMO.