Serious discussion: buying Squier instead of Fender MIM or made in USA

[Jim Baritone]

Two completely different examples about instrument quality in general.

In 1975, when I bought my first "professional grade" tenor sax, the horn to beat was the Selmer Mark VI. A local music shop got in a shipment of a dozen, and (the owner was really understanding) I spent a whole week of 8 hour days trying out every one of those horns.

They were all really, really good instruments - but some were better than others. On the last day, I was down to three. By noon down to two. Took a break, went for a walk, then came back in and picked up each one of the two and ran it through a short jazz standard ("Spring Can Really Hang You Up The Most", I think.)

By the end of the first verse, playing the second horn, I knew that the first one of the two was The One. I went down and wrote a cheque for $2700 - with a bit of a gulp as I was 18 at the time - and went home with my Mark VI. In all the years since, I've never once had reason to regret the time and effort I spent in choosing one sax out of a batch of a dozen brand new horns, and I've played it thousands of hours.

Fast forward to six months ago. I had picked up the bass again after a layoff, I have a Gibson EB0 undergoing a rebuild, and a Peavey Milestone IV which has a great neck, great sound, and I don't care what people think about Peavey - I love it.

But as I was recently retired on disability, I decided as a retirement project to learn to play electric guitar, fingerstyle.
I got hold of a good guitarist friend, one of my colleagues from when I played full time, and asked his advice and assistance in choosing a good instrument for my needs. We went around to a local shop, and I noticed my buddy had a roll big of masking tape in his jacket.

The guitar shop didn't have a window full of shiny instruments like all the other music stores on the street. It was a bit dusty and not the glitziest decor-wise, crowded -actually packed - with guitars, basses, amps, cases, but they were obviously good folks, had a lot of instruments on the walls and seemed happy to help out. I looked at some of the price tags and darn near fainted right there - big dollar, beautiful basses and guitars. I started to have a sinking feeling, but they set me up in a sound booth. Then my mentor put me on a stool with my back to the door and started bringing in guitars for me to try. They were all Strat-bodied guitars, but Tom had masked off the identifying marks on every axe. He ran me through maybe two dozen guitars, which took 2-3 hours. Some were obvious non-starters after 3 minutes. Some were better, but we "weren't there yet" in sound or feel. So I tried more. Finally he brought in three of the ones I'd already tried, and ran me through each one again - working me harder. All were a "close fit", but one clearly stood out from the rest. "That's the one you want" he said. Off we went to the cash register to buy the guitar, case, tuner, strings - all that stuff. (I had my bass amp for practicing).

Now, when he peeled off the masking tape on "the winner," the name was a surprise, and I said so. It was even more of a surprise when he unmasked the other two finalists. All three were names I knew, but I'd never sat down and just played them uninterrupted. Any of the three would have been a good choice; one was just a bit better for me, personally, and for the fit of my hands, than the other two. When I expressed my surprise, he just said, "which guitar did we just spend a day finding was the best one for you?"

Am I going to join the Squier/Fender/built-it-yourself/clone bunfight? Nope. My point, going on at length, was that it took a lot of trying different instruments to find the "right" one - and that was just as true last March as it was in 1975. Perhaps the only difference was that the guitar we picked out was nowhere near the most expensive one in the store - not even close. But it was a) vetted by an expert (also a known pro and my instructor) as being a good quality guitar, b) tried by me in a blind test and picked as the one that best fitted me, and c) was within my budget.

I still have the '75 Selmer Mark VI tenor sax, and I still have the Gibson EB0 I got around the same time, so it was money well spent both times and I have thousands of hours on a bandstand (and being paid for it) to prove it.

Will I still have this guitar in five years? Probably not - my teacher/mentor told me there would come a time when I would reach a point where a higher quality instrument would help improve my playing. But that won't be for a while.

As for the guitar I bought: Is it a good-quality axe? Yes. Does it sound good? Yes, really good. Are the electronics and mechanical hardware excellent quality? Yes. Does the name on the headstock matter? No. And when the time comes to sell it, it'll still be a good guitar.

My two bits worth.

[blindrabbit]

Great story Jim. If only everyone would shop for instruments that way...

[awilkie84]

So...what IS it?

[awilkie84]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

A little lipstick can significantly improve the appearance of most ducks.

NOPE!

[Pet Sounds]

Originally Posted by michael_atw

A used USA Fender costs like, a whole week paycheck (after taxes) more than a Squier Affinity (let alone a "higher" Squier model). Is that really that much of a price difference? Don't smoke for a month, don't go out on weekend bar runs for a couple months...lay off the expressos for a few dozen mornings...that's it.

+1. Many of us change basses like underwear, but the fact is, you really only HAVE to have one bass, and a good bass can last you a lifetime. Why not save up and get a fine instrument if you're really that serious about being a bass player?

[conqr]

Originally Posted by awilkie84

NOPE!

Who is he?

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by awilkie84

So...what IS it?

I think the point of his post was, that it's irrelevant what the bass is, it's one he likes, that's all that matters.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by Pet Sounds

+1. Many of us change basses like underwear, but the fact is, you really only HAVE to have one bass, and a good bass can last you a lifetime. Why not save up and get a fine instrument if you're really that serious about being a bass player?

And where is it written that it has to be an expensive one for you to be a "serious" bass player?

[blindrabbit]

Originally Posted by Pet Sounds

Many of us change basses like underwear, but the fact is, you really only HAVE to have one bass, and a good bass can last you a lifetime. Why not save up and get a fine instrument if you're really that serious about being a bass player?

I know a number of good guitar and bass players who are "serious" about their music and who have been playing Squiers for decades now. I should add that the Squiers they are playing are also very fine instruments by virtually any metric you can come up with. In each of these cases, I'm quite confident that their Squiers will last them a lifetime, and do a fantastic job at it to boot.

[tjh]

Originally Posted by conqr

Who is he?

... might be MARCO ... or at least thats what it says on his face ..

[Faraday]

Two advantages of a Squier are that you can call people who play a Fender MIA or any other bass for which they paid more than $375 cork sniffers, snobs, dupes of marketing, and you can stories about how your bandmate's (who is one of the purests tone freaks in North America) and soundman's jaws dropped when they realized the bass that was making the best sound they ever heard was your Squier. If you buy a Fender MIA, you'll never get to tell stories about how surprised everyone who isn't a cork sniffer is at how much your Fender sounds like a Fender.

So, if you want to have a bass that you get to tell amazing stories about, definitely go with a Squier because if you buy a Fender MIA, you will have nothing to say.

[Pet Sounds]

Originally Posted by blindrabbit

I know a number of good guitar and bass players who are "serious" about their music and who have been playing Squiers for decades now. I should add that the Squiers they are playing are also very fine instruments by virtually any metric you can come up with. In each of these cases, I'm quite confident that their Squiers will last them a lifetime, and do a fantastic job at it to boot.

I'm sure you're quite right about this. I withdraw my earlier statement. No offense meant.
Personally, when I have purchased inexpensive instruments I've always ended up regretting it and trading or otherwise working up to buying an MIA. So my philosophy has been to save up and go for the MIA right out of the chute. But that's just one man's opinion.
I'm a Baby Boomer and when I started getting "serious" about the bass, many imports were just terrible instruments, so I probably have an outdated opinion of Squiers and the like. Sorry for the elitist-sounding comment.

[tobynjake]

Schecter diamond p and j.
Play as good as fenders,great build quality,and you sure cannot beat the price..

[atomicdog]

"Result: The Fender US aren't worth the money.
The difference in price is much bigger than the difference in qualitiy and sound.
The Fender US basses are quite nice but too expensive."

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion. I don't agree with yours. I own a couple of Squiers (50s and 60s CV P Basses) and several USA P bases and J basses. Squiers have their own charms, but they ain't Made in America--different woods, different pickups, different pots, different specs. I do mods but I wouldn't trade my MIAs for a modded Squier. If you are a casual player, the Squiers are fine. Dig em, mod em, have fun with em.

[Bluelephant4]

I agree with the OP

[seang15]

I wouldn't give up my Squier VM fretless for a new MIA Jazz. YMMV.

[NorCal Dog]

bought my SDAJBV when they first came out & modded it within a month of owning it & been playing the **** outta it ever since

owned the real deal at the time that the Squier came along, a Fender DAJBV,, after the mods,, the Squier smoked it,, so i dumped it

have had a few high end fivers, including a couple of Laklands & a Roscoe,, wound up dumping em for numerous reasons

the Squier ain't going nowhere

[Hilton Marsh]

35 years ago my friends and I regulalry scoffed at anyone who owned a Japanese Strat. Our catch cry was "Cant you afford a real guitar". 35 years later and I wish I now owned some of those Japanese Stats. I cant help but wonder if history is now repeating itself. Are today's Squier Basses the Jap Strats of 35 years ago? Will there come a time when "Made in China" is better than "Made in Ethiopia" or "Made in Madagascar."

[soulman969]

Wow, another Squier vs MIM vs MIA thread. What number does this one make, #200 or #300?

One hundred and fifty eight previous responses before this one all debating the merits of what we own and play versus the others. I play two Squier CVs because to me they represent one of the best values in the market right now and my opinion comes after a ton of experience owning and playing MIA Fenders for 35+ years.

But everyone else's value system isn't the same as mine and this thread is full of decent reasons for buying and playing any of these Fender lines or models and yes, Squiers are Fenders too. There may be a couple of hundred dollars worth of better components (at aftermarket prices) in the MIA models but the rest is basically labor and marketing costs.

I choose not to pay for that portion of the higher costs and simply modify those components that can actually improve the bass which are primarily the pickup (s) and the strings. Other than that the differences between their builds is somewhat negligible and completely invisible to anyone else once on the bandstand but me.

Once you actually shop them and play them whatever differences there are between them become apparent or not and a good buying decision can be made. The best one will jump out at you as it has some many times before with some many other buyers. Much depends upon what any given buyer puts his or her emphasis on. There are good, better and best within each line so the name on the headstock means far less than some think.

So FWIW that's my experience with Fender Basses and these monthly or bi-monthly debates on which is best. The best will always be that which the buyer perceives is best not what the opinions of a hundred others believe. Try 'em and then buy the one that's the best one for you and you won't look back with any regrets. That's my advice.

[BlueTalon]

A friend of mine once said, "Never be afraid to pay more for a better product." On the other hand, don't spend money you don't have to spend.

As others have mentioned, there is a point of diminishing returns on the additional money one has to spend to get the better quality (actual and perceived). But everyone has to decide for themselves where exactly that point is.

If there is one thing in this thread that I would strongly disagree with, it's that this thread shouldn't have been started in the first place. I personally read quite a few well thought out posts here, and I'm glad I read through the whole thread. Of course, this is only about the 3rd or 4th such thread I have ever bothered with, so I haven't developed the same gag reflex some people have.


**Does this same Squier/Fender discussion happen with Epiphones and Gibsons?