Show us your 3 pickup basses!

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

I suppose I could sell my modular synth ...



Oh HELLS no! That would be ten steps back and one step forward! Haha!

Oh that's nice! What kind of modules are those? Synthesizers.com?

I built a PAiA modular synth back in the day.

[Flux Jetson]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Oh that's nice! What kind of modules are those? Synthesizers.com?

I built a PAiA modular synth back in the day.

(thank you) .... Yup, the whole thing is "dot com" stuff. I'm working on saving a few bucks to get one non-dot com module, it's a quad-LFO module made in dot com format. It has four independent LFOs all with two waveforms each. Perfect for "chore" type LFO duties such as PWM and such.

http://www.steamsynth.com/m_QuadLFO.aspx



My system has:
** 5-VCOs that double as LFOs, two of which have waveform mixers that I installed on them
** 3-EGs, all four stage (ADSR).
** 2-VCFs, one is a State Variable (LPF, HPF, BPF, Notch) 6db/12db filter, the other is a Moog type transistor ladder 6db/12db/18db/24db LPF filter.
** 2-VCAs, one is a pan/fade the other is a standard VCA.
** Ring Mod.
** Instrument Interface.

I made the cab, covered it in Rustoleum Truck Bedliner (five coats!).

And "yes" I use it with my bass guitar and my guitar as well (see link in sig, that thread is all about it's use as well as a lot of other nonsense ... 12 pages so far!).

Here's what the whole pile looks like .. so far ...





I made the cab by melding two 14 space cabs together into the double decker setup. The 2" aluminum strip is slated to contain multiples-jacks ("mults") and routing switches. I'm in process of normalizing the entire thing so for 99% of all the sounds I use I won't need a single patchcord. Big job! I've been playing analog synths since 1977 (woops, I think I already said that in this thread).

This is an early-on picture of the setup, it looks more "prepared" now .... (that's a 1962 Hammond A102 btw) ..




And here's some more modules in a rack-mount adaptor that I use specifically for amplifying my bass ...











Much MUCH more info on this setup for the bass can be found in the thread that is linked in my sig. Be warned, it is technical and heavy reading.

(below) This was my first modular .... it was all "Eurorack" format stuff. I didn't even bother to finish it, I really didn't care for the small format.



Thanks for asking.

[Doner Designs]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Only Leo knows... but because the coils are very wide, you can't get them right next to each other inline.

I think another thing was that Seth Lover had gotten the patent for the Gibson humbucker, and in that patent was a split coil arrangement.

Leo also got a patent on the split coil pickup, but the patent was for the tonal effects of the off set coils, and not that it was a humbucker. I suspect he did this to get around Lover's patent, since the P pickup is indeed a humbucker.

But also, it was common to angle pickups to make the bass strings deeper and the treble strings brighter, as seen on the Strat and Tele bridge pickups. Ad again, I think they sound better reversed.



When I play a regular P, I can hear the change in tone from the bass to the treble pair of strings. But on a reverse P you don't really hear that shift.

Thanks for the history. It also helps explain why Spector and many others do the reverse layout.

[Doner Designs]

Originally Posted by 12stringbassist

Very nice. I assume there is a third pickup under your hand there? Switching on the treble horn? Kinda hard to see.

[Doner Designs]

Hey Flux/Brian/Brain; Happy New Year (almost)!

Regarding the PG, one thing I considered was to do it in two pieces for easier access. I went with dual access from the rear instead since I wanted to have back plates anyway (for the look).

There is no fiberglass. Its just copper shielding tape that you see. The whole PG has foil but I double shielded the control plate area.

The Doner vs Donor probably confuses a lot of people and throws off some searches. I'll have to figure out how to deal with that. Searching google images or web using my name (correctly spelled) gets you to all our stuff but donor probably does not. The pun aspect of our name vs our mission is kinda cool but not good if it throws folks off the trail.

Regarding Babicz, I think its a superior design to anything else on the market. The only negative IMO is that it does not do top loading. Apart from that, string to body contact is maximized and the single-screw cam-type adjustment is really slick. An engineering mind like you would really appreciate it I think. I also like the modern look which is a good fit with most of our builds.

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

I didn't want to distract myself from what I'm doing outside of the bass by getting all into what's going on inside of the bass, but Steve's imagination has spured-on my own imagination. And since I got a friggin ROUTER for x-mas I'm now all about new ideas for the inside of my bass.

At this point I'm ready to shorten the thumbrest down to what I now know I need and begin some forward motion within the bass itself. I can tell the Marcus Miller pickguard will be a must-use piece.



That said, (Steve) you never did tell me what is up with the fiberglass piece inside of the pickguard on the AF bass. And also, talk about that Babicz bridge too, I see you tend to use them.



NOTE: I just caught the fact that I've been mispelling your company name ... I'll make efforts to get that right here forward. I'd guess it's something you've dealt with ever since you were tagged with that last name. My name is Brian, it's commonly mispelled as "Brain" by others my whole life. It's actually a nickname of mine by some folks ... "Brains" ... a sortof play on words and a shout-out to the character "Brains" from the 1960s marionation kids' show called The Thunderbirds.

Ramble ramble bla bla ramble.

[Doner Designs]

Good info on the multi-pin connectors. Thanks!

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

Steve, as far as multipin outs, you can go with the more robust 5-pin DIN ("midi") connectors ...
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=311 ... ($0.53 each)

And a right-angle cord connector ...
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=1735 ... for $9.25 each.

I just rec'd a bunch of the Right Angle males, excellent quality and you can "clock" the 5-pin pattern to suit which direction you want the cable to point when it's plugged in. I also got in a hundred of the 5-pin females ... all good stuff! I'm impressed so far.

OR .. if 5 conductors isn't enough (that's 5+ground) go with the 7-pin DIN connector at $0.70 each ...
http://www.redco.com/shopexd.asp?id=1662.

The thing with using 5-pin (opposed to 7-pin) is that any MIDI cable can be used and modified with the installation of the Right Angle connector. Obtaining a 7-pin cable might be tough in a rush. So you'd have to make up a spare one or three just to have in your ~box~. Well, come to think of it, it probably wouldn't hurt to have spares whether you have the 5-pin or 7-pin, y'know?

Then run the multi-conductor cable out to a splitter/breakout box that will allow you to install a buffer to prevent "true bypass tone suckage" due to capacitance issues of signal runs. You can then also send the various pickup signals to discrete processing.

(Speaking of which, keep an eye on my X-thread, I'm testing something you had asked me about )

[Doner Designs]

As the next step after 2x4's you might look at GFS bodies to practice on (Guitar Fetish). Have fun!

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

I GOT A ROUTER FOR X-MAS!!!!!

Ok, fellas, I just may be able to become an official member here of the ">2 Pickup Club"!

My wife picked out a Bosch 1617EVSPK router package that includes a plunge base and a fixed base, as well as a pretty nice hinged/latched case that holds everything!

I already have 2x4 chunks cut up to be used as practice pieces to learn how to cut out pickup cavities.

Rockin Bone!

The router is a 2/25-HP with both 1/4" and 1/2" collets. She did an excellent EXCELLENT job of selecting the router!

WAHOO DAMMIT! I was up most of the night think up new ways of using it. And what new deadly pickup combos I can use because my wife of 33 years has so well enabled me.

My mind is spinning with which fraught with danger pickup and control cavity insanity I can now employ. Hot dayum!


And now --- ve dahnce ..... shprockets ...

[Flux Jetson]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

....When I play a regular P, I can hear the change in tone from the bass to the treble pair of strings. But on a reverse P you don't really hear that shift.

THAT ... ~that~ right there ..... the statement of "When I play a regular P, I can hear the change in tone from the bass to the treble pair of strings" .... that quirk of every bass I have ever owned .. drives me friggin bananas!!



I have gone to kuhRAZY lengths to get around it. My Jazz bass has independent pickup outputs that I run to some synth module trickery that allows me to switch pickup mixes on the fly with a momentary footswitch that I use in much the same manner as a piano player uses a sustain pedal. When I hold the pedal down the pickup mix = ~neck only~ with the volume corrected. When I let my foot off of the pedal it switches to both pickups on. The two mixes have identical sounding output levels so when I switch between the two mixes the only difference heard is tonal.

It's how I've tried to overcome the two pairs' tonal difference. It's a sortof pain in the butt to deal with but it works fairly well.

HOWEVER, I would much rather have some onboard solution that would cure it as nearly completely as possible. It's where my head was when I proposed this layout earlier in this thread ....



The treble-strings' pickup in that diagram would need to have it's final location messed with before it would be known where exactly to place it to arrive at the ~proper~ tonal balance. At least, that was my thinking.

I mean, just look at what I use to produce that footswitchable pickup mix ....



SERIOUSLY? Here's a picture of the actual rigging ....



And all of that stuff is before I do any FX stuff (distortion, EQ, compression, etc ...)!!!!!

So currently I've been messing around with separate processing of the individual pickups to help even more with achieving the tonal balance thing. The synth module 4ch mixer is FAR more precise for making decent pickup mixes than the stock onboard Squier volume knobs, so it's easier to get things mixed with a lot more detail. I mean .. will you look at this stuff?



But now I have to wonder if what was said here might help me more than the present path I'm on ......

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

....When I play a regular P, I can hear the change in tone from the bass to the treble pair of strings. But on a reverse P you don't really hear that shift.

That "But on a reverse P you don't really hear that shift." idea.

In any case, I've become fairly adept at doing the mid-riff pickup mix switching with the momentary footswitch setup. But one would think there is some other .. less involved (for cryin' out loud!) setup than what I've conjured up.

And the quest never ends .....

[gumbynotpokey]

Here are mine. I have two with 3-each if you count piezos in the bridge saddles.

[Flux Jetson]

^^^ Hard to beat those Carvin LB-70s.

[gumbynotpokey]

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

^^^ Hard to beat those Carvin LB-70s.

The truth is I was so TOTALLY smoked by your post there, that I just HAD to put up pics of my humble basses as some sort of ego-loss mitigation.

[seang15]

Originally Posted by gumbynotpokey

Here are mine. I have two with 3-each if you count piezos in the bridge saddles.

That fretless is seriously sweet!!

[Doner Designs]

Originally Posted by gumbynotpokey

Here are mine. I have two with 3-each if you count piezos in the bridge saddles.

Very nice! I'm guessing those are VVV with 3 and 4 band tone respectively? What is the mini toggle - active/passive?

[Doner Designs]

Flux, do you notice the tone difference with all string brands? I have spent megabux experimenting with different strings (all flats).

My experience has been that the brighter flats like Daddario, Roto77, Ernie Ball, etc are relatively even from string to string. Same for Thomastik but they are very different strings (and expensive).

The trouble is that I like the tone of Pyramids, LaBellas and GHS. Those often seem to have different amounts of zing. I have sometimes solved the problem by ordering custom gauges and even mixing brands. It can get expensive and frustrating, but perhaps less so than your mad scientist rig.

I have had a fair amount of correspondence with Pyramid in Germany. Bought a couple custom sets of 110/90/70/50. They work pretty well for me, but they had to go to a heavier core because I kept breaking the D and G. I even broke an A string recently.

At the moment I have 3 Pyramids E, D and G on my semi-hollow. The A string is a GHS replacing the broken Pyramid. Those 4 actually blend pretty well.

There's nothing on this earth like the thunk of a Pyramid Pure Nickel E string (B is probably similar). The trick is making the rest of the set fit, unless you like the standard tone which is very unbalanced in my opinion, but I think it is a feature rather than a flaw. Some folks like that I guess.

With GHS and LaBella I have had some where the tone shifts at the A, some at the D and some at the G. They all seem to even out somewhat over time, but that can take a year or two with lightly used basses.

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

THAT ... ~that~ right there ..... the statement of "When I play a regular P, I can hear the change in tone from the bass to the treble pair of strings" .... that quirk of every bass I have ever owned .. drives me friggin bananas!!



I have gone to kuhRAZY lengths to get around it. My Jazz bass has independent pickup outputs that I run to some synth module trickery that allows me to switch pickup mixes on the fly with a momentary footswitch that I use in much the same manner as a piano player uses a sustain pedal. When I hold the pedal down the pickup mix = ~neck only~ with the volume corrected. When I let my foot off of the pedal it switches to both pickups on. The two mixes have identical sounding output levels so when I switch between the two mixes the only difference heard is tonal.

It's how I've tried to overcome the two pairs' tonal difference. It's a sortof pain in the butt to deal with but it works fairly well.

HOWEVER, I would much rather have some onboard solution that would cure it as nearly completely as possible. It's where my head was when I proposed this layout earlier in this thread ....



The treble-strings' pickup in that diagram would need to have it's final location messed with before it would be known where exactly to place it to arrive at the ~proper~ tonal balance. At least, that was my thinking.

I mean, just look at what I use to produce that footswitchable pickup mix ....



SERIOUSLY? Here's a picture of the actual rigging ....



And all of that stuff is before I do any FX stuff (distortion, EQ, compression, etc ...)!!!!!

So currently I've been messing around with separate processing of the individual pickups to help even more with achieving the tonal balance thing. The synth module 4ch mixer is FAR more precise for making decent pickup mixes than the stock onboard Squier volume knobs, so it's easier to get things mixed with a lot more detail. I mean .. will you look at this stuff?



But now I have to wonder if what was said here might help me more than the present path I'm on ......



That "But on a reverse P you don't really hear that shift." idea.

In any case, I've become fairly adept at doing the mid-riff pickup mix switching with the momentary footswitch setup. But one would think there is some other .. less involved (for cryin' out loud!) setup than what I've conjured up.

And the quest never ends .....

[Flux Jetson]

Originally Posted by Doner Designs

Flux, do you notice the tone difference with all string brands? I have spent megabux experimenting with different strings (all flats).

My experience has been that the brighter flats like Daddario, Roto77, Ernie Ball, etc are relatively even from string to string. Same for Thomastik but they are very different strings (and expensive).

The trouble is that I like the tone of Pyramids, LaBellas and GHS. Those often seem to have different amounts of zing. I have sometimes solved the problem by ordering custom gauges and even mixing brands. It can get expensive and frustrating, but perhaps less so than your mad scientist rig.

I have had a fair amount of correspondence with Pyramid in Germany. Bought a couple custom sets of 110/90/70/50. They work pretty well for me, but they had to go to a heavier core because I kept breaking the D and G. I even broke an A string recently.

At the moment I have 3 Pyramids E, D and G on my semi-hollow. The A string is a GHS replacing the broken Pyramid. Those 4 actually blend pretty well.

There's nothing on this earth like the thunk of a Pyramid Pure Nickel E string (B is probably similar). The trick is making the rest of the set fit, unless you like the standard tone which is very unbalanced in my opinion, but I think it is a feature rather than a flaw. Some folks like that I guess.

With GHS and LaBella I have had some where the tone shifts at the A, some at the D and some at the G. They all seem to even out somewhat over time, but that can take a year or two with lightly used basses.

Oh hells yea, I've totally noticed differences between brands, guages, types of strings. And agreed 100% about the cost involved with finding ~the~ combination.

It's just one more thing that motivates me to create the system I'm goofing with. The main idea is to alleviate cost. No more spending big dollars buying completely new amps, or cabs. No more getting dimed to death buying set after set of strings to find some combination that works on one bass, with one amp, only to have to continue buying them (strings are a consumable item .... like tires. They are meant to wear out and be used up.).

The cost of my rig is 100% offset by the fact that it replaces the bass amp. It isn't in-addition-to ... it is in-place-of. The felxibility of it will (hopefully) negate the string search. If I do it right, I will be able to use it to compensate for whatever strings get installed, for whatever whims I go through, for whatever musical styles I get into along the way, for whatever the next band I'm in demands of me, for whatever new bass I think I have to have. I'm hoping that -- if I do it right -- it will be the Master Compensator. With the three stages and the parallel processing in four different locations, and creating a hybrid of digi-modeling, solid state, and tubes if I get the superstructure designed properly the thing will be able to overcome any outboard changes to provide me with whatever tones I am seeking, no matter the periphrial gear (bass/strings/pickups).

Of course, that is ideally speaking. I am well aware that nothing in this world is neither ideal nor perfect. But I can try to get as close to both notions as possible!



The latest DNA structure I've adopted is ... I think .... it.



Now it is a matter of loading the right processors in the best suited insert points to produce the soundset that I'm into at this moment. Fickle as I am, that set of wants will most likely change soon enough. But the hope is that with a little readjusting, a little manuevering of various rack goodies and stomp boxes, whatever I feel I want to hear will be attainable.

Much like the modular synthesizer that inspired this thing.

[Doner Designs]

I think I understand the flow better now. You have the ability to put FX in the line for each pickup separately.

I might offer a suggestion, if its not already part of the deal, to be able to run lines from the separate pickups to the separate power channels (two into one at each power stage).

Just offering some further mad scientist ideas (as if you need more).

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

Oh hells yea, I've totally noticed differences between brands, guages, types of strings. And agreed 100% about the cost involved with finding ~the~ combination.

It's just one more thing that motivates me to create the system I'm goofing with. The main idea is to alleviate cost. No more spending big dollars buying completely new amps, or cabs. No more getting dimed to death buying set after set of strings to find some combination that works on one bass, with one amp, only to have to continue buying them (strings are a consumable item .... like tires. They are meant to wear out and be used up.).

The cost of my rig is 100% offset by the fact that it replaces the bass amp. It isn't in-addition-to ... it is in-place-of. The felxibility of it will (hopefully) negate the string search. If I do it right, I will be able to use it to compensate for whatever strings get installed, for whatever whims I go through, for whatever musical styles I get into along the way, for whatever the next band I'm in demands of me, for whatever new bass I think I have to have. I'm hoping that -- if I do it right -- it will be the Master Compensator. With the three stages and the parallel processing in four different locations, and creating a hybrid of digi-modeling, solid state, and tubes if I get the superstructure designed properly the thing will be able to overcome any outboard changes to provide me with whatever tones I am seeking, no matter the periphrial gear (bass/strings/pickups).

Of course, that is ideally speaking. I am well aware that nothing in this world is neither ideal nor perfect. But I can try to get as close to both notions as possible!



The latest DNA structure I've adopted is ... I think .... it.



Now it is a matter of loading the right processors in the best suited insert points to produce the soundset that I'm into at this moment. Fickle as I am, that set of wants will most likely change soon enough. But the hope is that with a little readjusting, a little manuevering of various rack goodies and stomp boxes, whatever I feel I want to hear will be attainable.

Much like the modular synthesizer that inspired this thing.

[Flux Jetson]

Originally Posted by Doner Designs

I think I understand the flow better now. You have the ability to put FX in the line for each pickup separately.

I might offer a suggestion, if its not already part of the deal, to be able to run lines from the separate pickups to the separate power channels (two into one at each power stage).

Just offering some further mad scientist ideas (as if you need more).

Easy peasy. Couple of patchcords. Done.

Pretty much, if you can imagine a connection, it can be patched up.

Uhm .. that is to say with one exception. I've yet to thunk-up a sortof ~routing matrix~ at the very very beginning of the whole works that will permit putting the pickups in series. I really think this is something as simple as a box that the bass will plug into before it hit anything ... ANYTHING .. else. To route the pickups in series or parallel. Actually I think that might be best done inside the actual bass itself (internal workings? BLASPHEMY!! Heheh ..).

The reason I say that is because if it's done outside the bass the length of signal-run through cabling before it hits a buffer would be quite long. If I made this switching matrix outside the bass, and wanted series connection of the pickups, the signal would have to run from one pickup out to the switching box, then alllllll the way back to the bass to the next pickup, then alllllll the way back to the first mic preamp. There would be a minimum of twenty feet of guitar cord between the first pickup and the second pickup in a series configuration. That would equate to a good deal of cable-capacitance in-between the two pickups.

And I'm not sure how it would sound if I went from pickup 1 into a buffer, then back to-and-through pickup 2, then out to a preamp/buffer then on it's way into The X-Rig.

Sounds like science-gone-wrong for the most part. So I think that putting the series/parallel switching setup might be best done onboard the instrument.

However .... maybe this is X-the-unknown here. I mean, has anyone ever tried putting a preamp or EQ or whatever in-between two series pickups?

You are definitely the go-to guy there!

[Doner Designs]

I think you are right about doing series onboard. With a multi jack bass it could be switched so that the pair goes to a single jack when in the series position.

Originally Posted by Flux Jetson

Easy peasy. Couple of patchcords. Done.

Pretty much, if you can imagine a connection, it can be patched up.

Uhm .. that is to say with one exception. I've yet to thunk-up a sortof ~routing matrix~ at the very very beginning of the whole works that will permit putting the pickups in series. I really think this is something as simple as a box that the bass will plug into before it hit anything ... ANYTHING .. else. To route the pickups in series or parallel. Actually I think that might be best done inside the actual bass itself (internal workings? BLASPHEMY!! Heheh ..).

The reason I say that is because if it's done outside the bass the length of signal-run through cabling before it hits a buffer would be quite long. If I made this switching matrix outside the bass, and wanted series connection of the pickups, the signal would have to run from one pickup out to the switching box, then alllllll the way back to the bass to the next pickup, then alllllll the way back to the first mic preamp. There would be a minimum of twenty feet of guitar cord between the first pickup and the second pickup in a series configuration. That would equate to a good deal of cable-capacitance in-between the two pickups.

And I'm not sure how it would sound if I went from pickup 1 into a buffer, then back to-and-through pickup 2, then out to a preamp/buffer then on it's way into The X-Rig.

Sounds like science-gone-wrong for the most part. So I think that putting the series/parallel switching setup might be best done onboard the instrument.

However .... maybe this is X-the-unknown here. I mean, has anyone ever tried putting a preamp or EQ or whatever in-between two series pickups?

You are definitely the go-to guy there!

[Strat Hater]

Originally Posted by gumbynotpokey

Here are mine. I have two with 3-each if you count piezos in the bridge saddles.

How are those Pizio bridge pickups? Any good? Thought about getting one on E bay, but they are soo cheap, I figured they were no good

[Doner Designs]

Originally Posted by Strat Hater

How are those Pizio bridge pickups? Any good? Thought about getting one on E bay, but they are soo cheap, I figured they were no good

I think they sound good on a fretless. I personally would not use on a fretted bass or with rounds. They really pick up the fret and finger noise.

My Spectorcore has a fishman piezo bridge which sound great. I assume the hipshots are very good too...but not at all cheap. You need a special onboard pre to go with it. Bartolini makes one for around $100.

You also have to go active with the other pickups if you want to be able to blend.