SPECTOR® Club - Part 53 (A tribute to our Spector Brother and Friend Chris Loe)

[JPSBassist]

Originally Posted by grendle

I think JP said the sandwich came about due to inconsistency with the maple they were getting on the euro side. Stu wasn't happy with the tone and came up with the sandwich. It's more expensive to build the sandwich actually. I think it might counteract the difference in bridge mass a bit too. My sandwich dougie is the best sounding spector i have owned. I was skeptical and didn't like them messing with the mix, but Stu knows what he's doing when it comes to tone. Have no fear.

Absolutely correct.

And in truth, PJ Rubal has more contact with the Czech shop than Stuart.

PJ has ramped up USA builds so much over the past two years, Stuart hardly has time to breathe.

PJ makes the day-to-day decisions on most things Euro. And being a truly phenomenal musician with a trained ear on par with Stuart's, Stuart trusts PJ to make certain decisions regarding things that most "business people" couldn't be trusted to make. It's just one of the reasons I have so much respect for these guys and I am proud to be a consultant for them.

The need to move the Euro away from solid wings to a sandwich was really both Stuart's and PJ's decision. Stuart had suggestions about the wing mix and PJ finally tested the various mixtures to help develop the current formula.

There were two reasons for the change;

• First, the maple was inconsistent and one instrument to the next varied greatly in density and this affected tone.
  
• The next reason was that as the 1990's faded away a lot of Spector Artists were approaching PJ about the "1980's" sound of both the USA and the Euro lines. PJ and Stuart felt that if they were going to look for a more stable mix of woods to provide a consistent tonal output, why not move away from the distinctive tonal range of all-maple builds and try to bring some more mids and lows to the mix, to provide a better overall tonal balance. This was a move towards the middle to make the Euro a more viable option for the bassist NOT interested in the traditional growly maple-driven tone of the NS-2, etc...

Remember, the goal of the Euro design is to provide the touring and studio bassist a sturdy, reliable bass that has the best possible tonal range to meet more of the required tones they may be faced with. This is why the Euro4LX-TW/Euro5LX/Euro6LX were moved to the TW coil-tapping pickups. To provide for more tonal variance. You have basically a J-bass with single coils and your humbucking driven bass in one.

I love what Ra Diaz told me in his "My Spector Story" interview: "I used to be the kind of bassist that would carry 2 and 3 basses around with me to get the tones I needed on stage... ...now I just have this one bass."

Here's the thought on this I've heard PJ talk about:

You want pure-classic-1980's Spector tone, the USA Neck-Thru models are the basses for you. The USA models haven't really changed much so you can still get that classic growly maple driven tone.

You want a working tool that meets several needs in one bass with the classic NS-Body and a proven professional /durable /tour ready bass; the Euro models were made for this.

I recorded the voice over tracks for the 2013 NAMM DVD with a professional actress this week. One of the changes to the script when describing the TonePump is that it was designed to sound like the USA 9v, but still have it's own unique voice.

It comes down to choice and what you really need.

[worshiprocker]

Originally Posted by grendle

lol mine definatly isn't light. lol . playing a forte and euro side by side the euro definatly had more bottom end and was a touch fuller than the forte over all. The forte had that transparency in the low mids though (9V) and the highs were a little more subtle. very close though.

o ya i think the TonePump has much more low end on tap without a doubt...

my Euro LX was significantly lighter than my CRFM. My CRFM weighs the same as sam's forte (bathroom scale)

Originally Posted by diechris

I've also heard more hit and miss stories about the older solid maple wing euros.

I have 2 CRFMS that Rock! Euro4 on the way... we will see. I've heard this particular Euro rocks as well.

[J-O]

I have two CRFM's now, an oil finished 4 and my cherry burst 5 string. I can see what Patrick is saying about the different density of the maple. My 5 is a freakin' tank! It is heavy, and you can totally feel the density of those maple wings when you play it, it has a lot of growl/grind in the tone. Thump on that B string and you can just feel it reverberate through the body of the bass. It also has a certain "thickness" to the tone, it's hard to describe. I freakin' love it. I am sure some of that comes from the thick gloss finish, but I really think a lot of that comes from that dense body and neck wood.

My 4 is much more open and airy sounding, I'd say it's less compressed and gets more of that "piano" tone. Obviously the oil finish makes a big difference, but it is also way lighter than the 5. I remember reading something where people said that the gloss finished Spectors had more high end, but in my case the oil finished CRFM has a bit more inherit high end than my gloss finished 5.

They are both the same model of bass with all maple necks and bodies, the same brass nuts and bridges, same preamps, but you can just hear a big difference between them when you play them acoustically. Again, I think a lot of that is the finish differences, but I think a big part is the different wood density.

[WOLFTOWER5]

Originally Posted by JPSBassist

Absolutely correct.

And in truth, PJ Rubal has more contact with the Czech shop than Stuart.

PJ has ramped up USA builds so much over the past two years, Stuart hardly has time to breathe.

PJ makes the day-to-day decisions on most things Euro. And being a truly phenomenal musician with a trained ear on par with Stuart's, Stuart trusts PJ to make certain decisions regarding things that most "business people" couldn't be trusted to make. It's just one of the reasons I have so much respect for these guys and I am proud to be a consultant for them.

The need to move the Euro away from solid wings to a sandwich was really both Stuart's and PJ's decision. Stuart had suggestions about the wing mix and PJ finally tested the various mixtures to help develop the current formula.

There were two reasons for the change;

• First, the maple was inconsistent and one instrument to the next varied greatly in density and this affected tone.
  
• The next reason was that as the 1990's faded away a lot of Spector Artists were approaching PJ about the "1980's" sound of both the USA and the Euro lines. PJ and Stuart felt that if they were going to look for a more stable mix of woods to provide a consistent tonal output, why not move away from the distinctive tonal range of all-maple builds and try to bring some more mids and lows to the mix, to provide a better overall tonal balance. This was a move towards the middle to make the Euro a more viable option for the bassist NOT interested in the traditional growly maple-driven tone of the NS-2, etc...

Remember, the goal of the Euro design is to provide the touring and studio bassist a sturdy, reliable bass that has the best possible tonal range to meet more of the required tones they may be faced with. This is why the Euro4LX-TW/Euro5LX/Euro6LX were moved to the TW coil-tapping pickups. To provide for more tonal variance. You have basically a J-bass with single coils and your humbucking driven bass in one.

I love what Ra Diaz told me in his "My Spector Story" interview: "I used to be the kind of bassist that would carry 2 and 3 basses around with me to get the tones I needed on stage... ...now I just have this one bass."

Here's the thought on this I've heard PJ talk about:

You want pure-classic-1980's Spector tone, the USA Neck-Thru models are the basses for you. The USA models haven't really changed much so you can still get that classic growly maple driven tone.

You want a working tool that meets several needs in one bass with the classic NS-Body and a proven professional /durable /tour ready bass; the Euro models were made for this.

I recorded the voice over tracks for the 2013 NAMM DVD with a professional actress this week. One of the changes to the script when describing the TonePump is that it was designed to sound like the USA 9v, but still have it's own unique voice.

It comes down to choice and what you really need.

I just wanted to say thank you to you and every other member of this board. For a long time I always wanted a Spector, I always loved the sound and feel and look ever since I started playing back in the late 80s. Finally about a year ago I picked up a 4 y/o Euro ReBop and was in love. I also picked up a legend on a crap and giggles EBay bid. Finally I have convinced the wife to allow me to buy a new one. I have toyed around with the ForteX and a Euro TW. Just listening to the sound clips everyone posts and everyone experience with different models helps more then most of you could ever know. I live in an area were Spectors are not very common and I have very little opportunity to run to a music store to run one through its paces to get a feel for it. Plenty of performers at the Sam Ash, but no Euros or USA models. So again, I will be ordering my first come March, either BC or Tulsa. Either way I can't thank all of you on this Forum for all the input and knowledge. I can't fool myself into thinking this will cure the SAS, but I'll try.

[grendle]

yep, play the sandwich, run the pump at 18V and turn it down to about 4, and smile. All is right with the world.

[grendle]

Originally Posted by WOLFTOWER5

I just wanted to say thank you to you and every other member of this board. For a long time I always wanted a Spector, I always loved the sound and feel and look ever since I started playing back in the late 80s. Finally about a year ago I picked up a 4 y/o Euro ReBop and was in love. I also picked up a legend on a crap and giggles EBay bid. Finally I have convinced the wife to allow me to buy a new one. I have toyed around with the ForteX and a Euro TW. Just listening to the sound clips everyone posts and everyone experience with different models helps more then most of you could ever know. I live in an area were Spectors are not very common and I have very little opportunity to run to a music store to run one through its paces to get a feel for it. Plenty of performers at the Sam Ash, but no Euros or USA models. So again, I will be ordering my first come March, either BC or Tulsa. Either way I can't thank all of you on this Forum for all the input and knowledge. I can't fool myself into thinking this will cure the SAS, but I'll try.

Congrats! and your welcome! LOL welcome to the sickness

[grendle]

Originally Posted by J-O

I have two CRFM's now, an oil finished 4 and my cherry burst 5 string. I can see what Patrick is saying about the different density of the maple. My 5 is a freakin' tank! It is heavy, and you can totally feel the density of those maple wings when you play it, it has a lot of growl/grind in the tone. Thump on that B string and you can just feel it reverberate through the body of the bass. It also has a certain "thickness" to the tone, it's hard to describe. I freakin' love it. I am sure some of that comes from the thick gloss finish, but I really think a lot of that comes from that dense body and neck wood.

My 4 is much more open and airy sounding, I'd say it's less compressed and gets more of that "piano" tone. Obviously the oil finish makes a big difference, but it is also way lighter than the 5. I remember reading something where people said that the gloss finished Spectors had more high end, but in my case the oil finished CRFM has a bit more inherit high end than my gloss finished 5.

They are both the same model of bass with all maple necks and bodies, the same brass nuts and bridges, same preamps, but you can just hear a big difference between them when you play them acoustically. Again, I think a lot of that is the finish differences, but I think a big part is the different wood density.

Yep , there is some variation there. I think that turned some people off a bit (me included) when the euro's first came out. they were all great players, but a few really had the magic. The tone now is much more consistent with the ones I have played.

[bunkaroo]

Originally Posted by grendle

yep, play the sandwich, run the pump at 18V and turn it down to about 4, and smile. All is right with the world.

Hey Grendle, you mean keep your master volumes down to 4?

I always run my volume wide open - maybe I need to experiment some more.

[j.kernodle]

maybe he means the trimpot.

[awilkie84]

Has anyone on here bought a euro bridge with intonation screws?
I'm curious as to whether the saddle height screws are both at the front, like the new US bridges, or staggered, like the old US bridges with intonation screws.

[worshiprocker]

spector turn down? lol just messing with you grendle!

[bunkaroo]

Originally Posted by j.kernodle

maybe he means the trimpot.

I was thinking that could be the case. I keep mine at 50% with pretty good results. I'm going to try the 6LX at 40% with the 18v and see how different it is.

On the black cherry burst Euro, when I originally ordered my first Spector from Musician's Friend in 2010, they pictured the burst so that's what I thought I was getting. So I was little surprised when I got the non-burst black cherry but I still loved the way it looked. I'm actually not a huge fan of bursts but the black cherry and blue ones from the Euro line are great.

[JPSBassist]

Originally Posted by awilkie84

Has anyone on here bought a euro bridge with intonation screws?
I'm curious as to whether the saddle height screws are both at the front, like the new US bridges, or staggered, like the old US bridges with intonation screws.

They are offset because the addition of the intonation screws is a retro-fit.

They don't replace the original saddles, they just tap into them.

[iceboxbass]

Originally Posted by worshiprocker

Mike is right.. that says HAZ on the pot, that is no Mighty Mite preamp my friend

I get things right once in a great while...

Originally Posted by madbassplaya

I took it as a mighty (kick@$$) preamp. Lol

I want a USA Bolt on...

YES! I've come to appreciate USA bolt-ons, since arrival of my Coda 5XL.

Originally Posted by Fat240

I believe that's a 80's era 9v circuit.

Nice! Should have some deadly growl!

Originally Posted by Worldeeeter

That thing looks like a circuit board out of a 1950's transistor radio!
I definitely see more art than science there; such a great sound comes out of that archaic thing.
As we all know, they're hard to get in any quantity, mainly cuz old circuit board components become more and more difficult to get as time goes on.
Part of me thinks there is a way to modernize that thing with existing components, a printed circuit board the size of two postage stamps, and the pots (kind of like EMG's new OBPs).
It'd probably be a lot cheaper, too, as rare relics wouldn't have to be unearthed to build the darn things.
That's the work part of me; the play part of me loves the sound the "Spector US 9V circuit" produces.
JPS - If Stuart ever wants to upgrade that thing, I can put you in touch with several board shops in NY/NJ that can help out.

Ah, Aguilar makes the OBP circuits. Sorry.

Originally Posted by j.kernodle

that my friends is the preamp to my new to me 1985 Brooklyn NS2. so yep it's a real deal. more pics to come. just want to get it outdoors for the full glamour treatment. in the meantime here's a little somethin'

Wow! Congrats on the 85' NS-2! Very clean looking!

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

Interesting stuff. The Spectors don't have metal knobs, and I don't hear a pop when I touch pickups. Have to look into this further.

So I think I've been able to narrow this down some more.

Since my piece of crap iRig adapter (no offense to those who like it) is so noisy, I could not tell if the basses were still picking up the buzz or not when completely isolated from anything plugged into the wall. So I ran down to the Apple store and picked up the Apogee Jam interface for the iPad. Now this is a quality adapter. Very quiet.

So I plugged in my 6LX which had been the noisiest directly into the the Jam into the iPad, and no noise. I held the bass right where the noise was worst and it wasn't there. So then I started introducing more back into the chain. I ran through my pedal board with the EBS MultiComp, B3K, Corona Chorus and VT Bass directly out into the Jam. Still quiet. I mean the overdrive causes noise but it's the kind you expect from OD.

Then I plugged the pedal board back into the input of my RBI and ran the RBI output into the Jam. And there's the noise. The thing is, the same thing happens with my Sansamp RPM but I guess I shouldn't be surprised since they're both made the same way. But I was also hearing it through my Eden amp head, so I wasn't sure it could be the Sansamp stuff. Perhaps it's the fact all this stuff is racked together?

I still don't really understand why where and how I position my bass in the room would be affected by being plugged into a noisy preamp. Same bass and cables plugged into iPad - quiet. So why does plugging into the preamp make a difference? The preamp itself is not generating noise when I am not plugged into it - only the when I'm plugged in and the volume is up on the bass.

I am going to experiment with using both the XLR and 1/4" out from the RBI and taking it out of the rack to see if that makes a difference. Sorry for the novel - just hoping this can help someone else someday since Spectors are involved.

Hmmm...sounds like there's a grounding issue in one of pods, whether is actually a ground that's loose or one of the cords within your chain could have a cut, fray or where the cord is crimp to the connector. Try isolating it by only plugging in one box at a time, by itself, away from the rest that's in the chain. Do this with your SansAmps also.

[ebradfordrich]

Originally Posted by delucajohn2000

That's ok. I should have my tax return hopefully in a few weeks and this guy doesn't seem too far from me so it might give me a chance to jump on this If I end up getting it but turn out to not be a fan, i will of course offer it up to the club and I don't mind shipping I would sell it for the price I paid for it as well.

Jump on that like a fat man on a (ahem) sandwich. Very infrequently does that stellar finish turn up.

Mmmm, wings. (said in my best Homer voice)

[J-O]

Originally Posted by grendle

Yep , there is some variation there. I think that turned some people off a bit (me included) when the euro's first came out. they were all great players, but a few really had the magic. The tone now is much more consistent with the ones I have played.

Oh, don't get me wrong. They both sound awesome, I'd just call it different variations of awesome. It's kinda cool, actually. I'd be interested to compare one of the newer euro's just to see how different they sound or feel compared to my CRFM's.

[delucajohn2000]

Originally Posted by ebradfordrich

Jump on that like a fat man on a (ahem) sandwich. Very infrequently does that stellar finish turn up.

Mmmm, wings. (said in my best Homer voice)

Haha, I will try. I sent him a PM asking where he is located so I will see what he says.

I was up front and let him know that I wouldn't have to money until I got my tax return but if he won't ship the bass, there might be a good chance it will still be available when that time comes.

[grendle]

Originally Posted by bunkaroo

Hey Grendle, you mean keep your master volumes down to 4?

I always run my volume wide open - maybe I need to experiment some more.

no the trim pot. I run my vol wide open , full bass boost treb about 70% with rotos.

Their way hot with the trim pump near max from the factory usually. I turn the trim pot down to about 4 on mine, it's where my ampeg likes it other than that it easily distorts my pre more than i like. most guys like it between 4-6, it'll distort any pre if you crank it up / want to. The pump is a very under rated pre IMO.

18V is mandatory imo. also (thanks Phat!)

[seventhframe]

Insane day at the studio yesterday! It was incredible!
We had my good friend Ash (drummer for 3 Inches of Blood) lay some thunderous drum takes that sound incredible!
I did bass yesterday as well, my hands got sweaty from having 10 people watching me and a producer on my back But it was incredibly fun!






Back again next week!

[loend68]

^^^Nice!!