Still having a 4 vs 5 issue after all these years

ericmknight1906 · #1 11-05-2011, 11:37 PM

Guys, for years i have been trying to find a way to play a 4 string and also be able to play gospel shout music in E and Eb w/o the sound being so well, "empty sounding" for a lack of better wording.

I could play E and Eb but it's usually way up the neck and just not bassy enough.

I currently play a 5 but I feel much more confident playing a 4 for various reasons such as easier slapping and better accuracy.

The only thing that getting on my nerves is that flipping E and Eb.

I am requesting suggestions that can help me around this issue so that I can play my 4 string and sound full in all keys.

thanks

mixamatchi · #2 11-05-2011, 11:50 PM

As much as I am an advocate for the wide 5, if you must play a 4, you could use larger strings, and detune a full step. Personally, the reasons you mention are the reasons I made the switch to a 5, and after 10 years it feels wierd to play without a B string. If it were not for wide 5s, I would not be comfortable. Is your 5 narrow?

bassist4dalord · #3 11-05-2011, 11:56 PM

Maybe string a 4-string BEAD? I like the low B quite a bit, but my 5-string bass has weak pickups and I can't afford new ones for a long long time. Also, I HATE drop-D tuning, but I do it on my P because there are songs for which I need that Eb.

UGH! The dilemmas of a bassist..

jfh2424 · #4 11-06-2011, 01:19 AM

A hipshot D tuner would resolve that for you.

John

Juan Count · #5 11-06-2011, 02:24 AM

In my experience... drop tuning really depends on the (4 string) bass... I'm a bit of a 4 'banger' purist but my Fender Jazz can't handle Db Ab Db Gb... my Yamaha BB however holds the lower tunings well... as does my Spector Euro (but that's getting the flick soon)...

ysand · #6 11-06-2011, 02:40 AM

hipshot D-tuner or BEAD.

Slowgypsy · #7 11-06-2011, 03:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh2424

A hipshot D tuner would resolve that for you.

John

+1.... That's exactly what they were designed to solve.

lowphatbass · #8 11-06-2011, 03:38 AM

In your case I would put the time in and get it together on the 5 string.

sethlow3 · #9 11-06-2011, 03:57 AM

A hipshot tuner is not the way to fix this. When you see a low E on a piece of sheet music your mind will more than likely be inclined to play an open E rather than the 2nd fret of the E string. Well if you're in drop D, you'd be hitting the wrong note. Plus the intervals would be much further apart on the E and A strings giving you even more of a stretch for those Eb's and E octaves. I for one like consistency in my fingerings on the entire fretboard.

I really think you should get your hands on as many 5 strings as possible and see what kind of spacing you like by the bridge and what scale length you prefer. Many times those two things can make all the difference in the world in feel. Tuning BEAD would work too, but get it set up by a professional luthier first. Though you might miss the G string since you slap.

5 string bass is a different animal, and it took me a good 3 years to get 100% comfortable with it and figure out what kind of dimensions I liked on one since 5 stringers vary so much. I really think the best answer for you here is, if you like your current fiver, practice the hell out of it until it feels comfortable.

I have the reverse problem as you. I have played nothing but fivers for 7 years now and when I play my newer Fender Jazz 4, something is missing, I can't groove the same way on it as I can my 5. It makes me think about the notes and what I am playing rather than just getting up there and feeling it. I miss the low D, Eb, and E especially. Plus in modern country and R&B, a B string is 100% necessary. As a result, I take the 5 on the road for live work and use the 4 for Jaco stuff, using a pick, Jazz, and punk rock kind of playing in my free time alone in a room.

bassgod0dmw · #10 11-06-2011, 05:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethlow3

A hipshot tuner is not the way to fix this. When you see a low E on a piece of sheet music your mind will more than likely be inclined to play an open E rather than the 2nd fret of the E string. Well if you're in drop D, you'd be hitting the wrong note.

I'm not seeing how a Hipshot doesn't solve the issue. Just because you wouldn't play the right not doesn't mean nobody will...

I tune all over the place and use charts in E standard. I don't have a problem with it at all, it's just something you get used to.

sethlow3 · #11 11-06-2011, 05:19 AM

To me it's juggling two different patterns in your head over and over again. Sure it's possible but practical or consistent? Not IME. Why not just have the standard feeling of being tuned in 4ths all the time? Playing scales would be much less practical. For example, a major scale played on the E, A, and D strings would have a much different feel and would have to span across way more frets rather than being in one nice compact spot easily accessed. Try playing an Eb major scale in drop D on those strings, then try it on a 5.

jabsys · #12 11-06-2011, 05:19 AM

A hipshot D tuner is what I'd use in that situation, I don't find swapping between E & D a problem when reading.

jfh2424 · #13 11-06-2011, 05:30 AM

I use a Hipshot D tuner and a Double Stop so I can tune to E, D or B in a flash.

Like playing in standard tuning, it takes a while to master. But I assure you it is doable.

Scales are possible too. It's a question of practice.

Patterns are fine at first, but you really need to move beyond that at some point if you want to grow, Hipshot D tuner or not.

All this is simply a question of time and desire.

John

sethlow3 · #14 11-06-2011, 05:37 AM

Never said it wasn't doable or impossible. Just not practical IME.

WorshipBassist · #15 11-06-2011, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfh2424

A hipshot D tuner would resolve that for you.

John

+1

Didn't even think of that...

WorshipBassist · #16 11-06-2011, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sethlow3

To me it's juggling two different patterns in your head over and over again. Sure it's possible but practical or consistent? Not IME. Why not just have the standard feeling of being tuned in 4ths all the time? Playing scales would be much less practical. For example, a major scale played on the E, A, and D strings would have a much different feel and would have to span across way more frets rather than being in one nice compact spot easily accessed. Try playing an Eb major scale in drop D on those strings, then try it on a 5.

Sounds like your just need to master the 5 then.

Marley's Ghost · #17 11-06-2011, 05:48 AM

When I first went from 4 - 5, it took me almost a year before I felt proficient. Now I am so used to the low B and playing high up on the neck I have trouble with a 4.

So keep plugging away, you will get there.

GBassNorth · #18 11-06-2011, 06:07 AM

If you need to hit Eb on a regular basis a fiver would be the ideal solution all the other suggestions with drop tuning and hipshots and such will work also but may or maynot be as natural as having a B string and not losing your G string. Five string necks come in every size and shape and string spacing you can imagine and I haven't found a hard and fast rule of thumb on which neck works best for which people (i.e. small hands, long fingers, kids, adults, etc.) it's a very personal thing and really requires the player to try on a number of different basses in order to find the right one.
Personally I love my Alembic, Pedulla and Fender Jazz 5 necks but have never been able to warm up to the overly wide Fender Precision 5 neck. The Ibanez 5s I've tried had very narrow necks that I didn't like and the Warrior that I tried felt like a 2x4 (not knocking Warrior - they're great basses). Might be interesting to start a list of 5 string necks from thinnest profile to thickest profile, most narrow fretboard to widest fretboard and tightest string spacing to widest string spacing. That list might offer you some insight into what you're currently playing an how it compares to other options.

sethlow3 · #19 11-06-2011, 06:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WorshipBassist

Sounds like your just need to master the 5 then.

I still like both the 4 and 5. I am just more comfortable on a 5 after all these years. There are more possibilities in one spot (I hardly have to look at the bass when on stage), there is better symmetry on the fingerings, the B string is a very valuable tool (especially in modern music), I like the tighter feel of a 17.5mm spacing for fingerstyle, and I just got very used to it.

4 string has a more basic feel to it. I end up doing a lot more pick playing, slapping, and sliding, but as the OP said, something is missing without those extra low notes and I'd miss the G string. I like 4 string, but I play a little differently on one when I pick it up and end up wanting those lower notes.

What's more, I got a Korg microSynthXL keyboard recently and have been enjoying the challenge of mastering that lately too. Bass can be lots of fun on keys. There are a lot of cool synth bass sounds possible on it. Playing bass on keys gets one to think outside the box and I tend to play totally different lines on it. So all 3 yield in fun grooves, but the 5 is where it's at to play my best stuff YMMV.

sethlow3 · #20 11-06-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBassNorth

Five string necks come in every size and shape and string spacing you can imagine and I haven't found a hard and fast rule of thumb on which neck works best for which people (i.e. small hands, long fingers, kids, adults, etc.) it's a very personal thing and really requires the player to try on a number of different basses in order to find the right one.

Same thing happened to me. I bought 6 fivers before I settled on 17.5mm spacing, 34' scales, and then also having a no holds bar attitude about B strings being perfectly audible. That led me to Musicman Stingray 5's and Modulus Funk Unlimited 5 strings and I haven't looked back. Good thing is wasn't Foderas and Sadowskys, as I am not made of money.