Are these supposed to have a 1 piece body?

[sbpark]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Yes, I see three pieces too.

agreed.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

You left out "... or I'll kill you."

It's implicit.

Seriously, how many times do we have to go through this per month?

Jeeze!

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

I've seen foto flame instruments, but I wasn't aware that any have been made in recent years.

There haven't been.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

The veneer is "folded" over where the upper bout relief will be. The veneer is very thin and very flexible.

Amazingly so. I've seen recent Cor-Tek furniture basses with multi-laminates going around compound curves, apparently applied after the body has its initial shaping..

The decorative top layer is almost paper-thin.

While I'm no fan of furniture instruments, I'd love to know the exact technology they're using for this...whether the wood veneer is plasticised and heat-bonded, or what. It's impressive!

[SGD Lutherie]

It's not that hard to get veneer to conform to a shape. Here I have two layers, purpleheart and maple, conforming to the volute on the back of the head:



You can't see the compound curve too well in the photo. This veneer wasn't especially thin either.

[96tbird]

Originally Posted by metron

Er yeah. Whats it called when matching up grain like that? Grainmatching?

Well, http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bookmatched

[96tbird]

Originally Posted by Mastermold

That one looks like a three piece to me.

Yes.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

It's not that hard to get veneer to conform to a shape [...] You can't see the compound curve too well in the photo. This veneer wasn't especially thin either.

What I've seen is top laminates conforming to the rounded-over edges of the body, all the way around. How they do it without it splitting is mysterious to me. I'm guessing the stuff is plasticised and sandwiched, then heat-pressed on somehow.

Laminating has come a long way in recent years.

The old Foto-Flame stuff wasn't even reliably bonded. I've read numerous complaints of it eventually peeling.

[96tbird]

My grand dad used to roll contact cement on veneer and substrate, let it dry then saturate the veneer then lay it down. Freakin contact cement won't let go once you run a roller over it. Then he would work it around the curves. Wet veneer gets as pliable as thick leather. He was good.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

What I've seen is top laminates conforming to the rounded-over edges of the body, all the way around. How they do it without it splitting is mysterious to me. I'm guessing the stuff is plasticised and sandwiched, then heat-pressed on somehow.

Laminating has come a long way in recent years.

The old Foto-Flame stuff wasn't even reliably bonded. I've read numerous complaints of it eventually peeling.

There's stuff you put on the veneer that softens it.

http://www.woodcraft.com/product/200...ner-quart.aspx

Then they put them in a vacuum bag to clamp it while the glue dries. I've done some of this with my former partner in SGD a few years ago. We were laminating up veneers to form a structure. John built the first few NS double basses with Ned. They were made from maple veneer and graphite layers.

Heat will also do it, because that's how you bend wood.

This shows how they use the vacuum bag:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpbrqfk8BLk

[Fran Diaz]

Originally Posted by Munjibunga

Now these are one-piece bodies.

and very nice pieces of wood indeed!

[Fran Diaz]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

...
Again, according to FMIC, there has NEVER been a one-piece body on a production Fender instrument in the company's entire history.

NEVER.

Clear enough? Good.

Whoever said that at Fender was misinformed. For instance, I've seen several Telecasters with one piece bodies, including Bruce Springsteen's famous Esquire.

I'll try to find more photographic evidence.

[SGD Lutherie]

Originally Posted by Fran Diaz

Who ever said that at Fender was misinformed. For instance, I've seen several Telecasters with one piece bodies, including Bruce Springsteen's famous Esquire.

I'll try to find more photographic evidence.

Maybe really early on. I have a '59 Jazzmaster, and that has a 2 piece body.

The main problem is scarcity of boards that wide.

[Fran Diaz]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Maybe really early on. I have a '59 Jazzmaster, and that has a 2 piece body.

The main problem is scarcity of boards that wide.

yeah, but there are some companies using one piece bodies, I've seen quite a few Sadowskys lately, also Foderas and 'a lot' of MusicMans with one piece bodies.
these bigger blanks are more expensive but still available. Warmoth offers one piece bodies also.

[SGD Lutherie]

Personally I'd go with a 2 piece book matched body. A one piece body offers no benefits and is prone to cupping.

My Tele (that I built) has a 2 piece book matched swamp ash body.

[Fran Diaz]

Originally Posted by SGD Lutherie

Personally I'd go with a 2 piece book matched body. A one piece body offers no benefits and is prone to cupping.

My Tele (that I built) has a 2 piece book matched swamp ash body.

As much as I love the grain on my Sadowsky, I don't dislike at all a two or even three piece body if the grain is properly matched. I can't stand the looks on transparent finished basses with poorly mismatched pieces of wood.

[Munjibunga]

Originally Posted by Fran Diaz

and very nice pieces of wood indeed!

The top one is mine.

[One Drop]

.

[Ian Perge]

Originally Posted by Bongolation

The old Foto-Flame stuff wasn't even reliably bonded. I've read numerous complaints of it eventually peeling.

Aka the "Hamburgler Flame*" on the Necks. Whatever sly basterd that snuck that in deserves a Gold Oscar, or Lifetime Permit to play as loud as desired at NAMM...

If at first you can't see it:



...have someone on the web circle it:



*aka "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle Flame", for some of the "kids" out there.

[Bongolation]

Originally Posted by Fran Diaz

Whoever said that at Fender was misinformed. For instance, I've seen several Telecasters with one piece bodies, including Bruce Springsteen's famous Esquire.

I'll try to find more photographic evidence.

"Photographic evidence" is 100% meaningless unless it gives a clear and unimpeded view of the end grain. Don't care what aging, overrated star it belongs to.

BTW, you should hear the guys at FMIC talk about the deluded nonsense celebrity Fender players believe about their pet vintage instruments (usually more or less fake), and how they have to bite their tongues and play along with this crap not to offend the towering showbiz egos of these ignoramuses.

There were a lot of custom and special presentation Fenders made, then and now. It's certainly probable that a tiny few of these -- again, then and now -- have been made with one-piece bodies, along with all sorts of other non-standard features.

BUT...every old-timer employee from Leo's day says there were never, NEVER one-piece bodies on production Fenders and that cheapskate Leo would have swallowed his tongue at the thought of it. FMIC says the same thing -- that there aren't and never have been any. I've worked on Fenders for over forty years and I've never seen one.

But every twenty minutes or so, some bubba on a gear forum starts braying about his Fender's awesuuum one-piece body, which is manifestly a glue-up so glaringly that experienced people can see the seams in a murky cellphone snapshot.

Fender builds its premium grainmatched ash bodies from two or three pieces cut from the same plank. I have repeatedly seen bodies that required magnification and an experienced eye to detect the seams on the face or back, and sometimes took a second look to even see them on the endgrain.

But that doesn't make them one-piece bodies. Okay?