The thing with Fenders is...

[Snakeman1066]

Originally Posted by Lorenzop

...they "sit" really tight in a mix.
It seems like they sit in their own little niche, supporting the mix without clashing against other instruments.
And they are more "felt" than heard, but you really notice smth. is missing when it's not there, smth "fat" that really fills up the bass frequency and adds dimension to a mix.

I know its been said before but it really struck me for the first tome yesterday as i heard this YT comparison video with Warwick Streamer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAHxMWMuYlA

I usually find fenders pretty boring soloed out as they seem "muffled" to me, and find other tones (from modern basses) more defined and interesting, but in the end mix a bass really shouldn't be jumping out at you anyways right??

The Warwick in the vid is def. punchier on its attack and cuts through the highs better, but even on cheapy Apple earbuds it just seems to "not fill the bass role" in the mix.

Am I crazy or do you confirm? Are there modern basses that "fill up the low freq" without clashing against the other instruments??

If so tell me cos I'm not actually such a Fender fan! ( well, at least I thought!)

ever listen to Iron Maiden? Steve cuts quite nicely with a P bass and flats...

[Lorenzop]

Yes one chunky piece of P that is the neck is massive!

[Scott in Dallas]

Originally Posted by unclejane

What "sitting well in the mix" means _is_ being heard. And it's generally best if you can be heard at the lowest possible volume - this detracts the least from the other instruments in the mix.

Not to me. A bass that has plonky overtones or an excess of midrange can be heard, but it's definitely not sitting well in the mix, and that's usually the choice of the player. The Warwick in the video is a perfect example of that to me.

Like the clacking of the Jazz bass that you mentioned, I'm sure it's possible to tame the honking midrange of the Warwick, I doubt people who love them would be willing to do it.

[StrangerDanger]

Originally Posted by banyaksuka

if you buy a Gibson (for example), you know what you're getting: quality.

I just LOL'D. For real.

I have yet to pick up a Gibson bass made this century that was anything other than junk. Their QC is astoundingly bad.

Right now is a Golden Age for FMIC at all price points. They are cranking out some seriously nice gear in the last few years.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Scott in Dallas

Not to me. A bass that has plonky overtones or an excess of midrange can be heard, but it's definitely not sitting well in the mix, and that's usually the choice of the player. The Warwick in the video is a perfect example of that to me.

Like the clacking of the Jazz bass that you mentioned, I'm sure it's possible to tame the honking midrange of the Warwick, I doubt people who love them would be willing to do it.

Well like I said my general questions of thumb on fitting into a mix are basically:

a) can I hear myself, are the notes distinct?
b) is the volume level to achieve #a low enough that I'm not detracting from the other instruments?
c) is the tone appropriate and not distracting?

Depending on the style of music, the number and type of other instruments, etc., the flat, clacky jazz bass tone can be made to work. It might even be judged to be "sitting well in the mix", even though it was a hack job to make it that way.
Or the musical style may even demand it, basically rendering the rest of it irrelevant. For example even I, if I were being paid to do it and the gig was a blues or gospel or praise/worship style or something like that, would probably drag a fretted jazz along with. As much as I hate it, that's the type of tone that's appropriate, end of story.

So I agree with you that there are lots of different factors that go into "sitting well in the mix", even political ones like the paid gig lol.... My personal preferences are just a little different. I also have injuries and hearing damage to deal with too, so in my own stuff (which I need to get back to) I tend to stay away from the jazz bass tone and prefer something more like the warwick.

So yes it's a YMMV type situation in the end...

LS

[Lorenzop]

Originally Posted by Scott in Dallas

Not to me. A bass that has plonky overtones or an excess of midrange can be heard, but it's definitely not sitting well in the mix, and that's usually the choice of the player. The Warwick in the video is a perfect example of that to me.

Like the clacking of the Jazz bass that you mentioned, I'm sure it's possible to tame the honking midrange of the Warwick, I doubt people who love them would be willing to do it.

Exactly.
Cutting through and being heard does not mean sitting well in a mix if your clashing against similar tones and frequencies of other instruments.

Maybe I'll redefine myself: I'm sure if a mix was built around a Warwick or other bass you'd probably have it also fit well in a mix but my point is: taken "as is" it's tone does not seem to fit well anywhere, it clashes either against other higher frequencies ( listen how bad it pairs up with the piano in the but last example, or most distorted guitars in the vid) and/or it lacks bottom bandwidth. The fender is def just sitting in the bottom and blends better.

As far as confusing clarity with being heard its another thing, I agree fenders sound muddy and the punch of the Warwick is nice but at what price, if it lacks bottom and you'll have to EQ the highs as not to make them clash with others??

Anyways I suppose it's silly in the end to draw conclusions about bass mix from such a video, I'm sure any bass can be made to sit in a mix nowadays. But I think prob fender would do it more naturally.

In fact it would be nice to see/hear good Warwick Streamer mixes!!

[Clef_de_fa]

I much prefered the Warwick, less clanky, a more rounder tone while the Fender had a more of a airy tone ...

Also it wasn,t that fair of a chalenge ... a Rockbass Warwick VS a AM STD Fender Jazz ... the battle would be fair if it both were in the same price point without mod.

But still I prefer the Warwick.

[Jazz Ad]

Originally Posted by Old Fart

If Porsche had not done it, the world's engineers would say it is impossible. Design and build an air-cooled, high-performance engine that could go a half-million miles between rebuilds[...]German engineering superiority is not about complexity.

I'm sorry to wave my little (white?) French flag but Porsche wasn't the only one to achieve that in these days. Citroën was equally successful at it.

[AKAttack]

I am sure it has been said countless times before BUT for these reasons you always need at least one Fender bass(JAZZ). I can't part with that sound.

[LaBassGuy]

The Warwick sounded better. But the Fender could have worked well too if the player rolled back the tone 30% and slightly lowered the neck pup volume.

[BassKraz]

Agreed with #19 post. Different basses are like having a variety of tools in the toolbox. It's in the hands too. Two different people with their own unique playing technique can make the same bass sound a little different.

[Emibass]

It´s only my opinion: The jazz slap tone is awesome, and when it goes fingerstyle the tone is deep, round and define. What more do you want?

P.d: I enjoyed your playing!

[rubbadubdub]

I think p basses sit in mixes and find their place with ease more so than jazzes. Having said that two out of three jazzes that I ever owned had bartolinis which sounded too distinctive for any music I'm likely to play. May have been good for a jazz musician though. The early 70s jazz sounded so horrible to me that it never got recorded so I can't say.
I went through a phase of trying to be Mark King for a while but got more positive reviews and gigs for my bottom heavy tone than I ever did through trying to push through to the front. If you want to support the song then a Fender is just fine as it is the sound heard on thousands of recordings. Maybe we have become conditioned to that sound and so it has become a benchmark in most musical styles?
Engineers love P basses for a reason and if you can't get an upfront and aggressive sound out of your p when required then there's something wrong somewhere. As for jazzes I can't say. I hate playing them but like hearing them played by other people sometimes. Enjoy what works for you.