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  #1  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:21 PM
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Three tone controls?

Has anybody installed three tone controls on your passive instrument...one bass, one mid, and one treble.

So you dont have to mess with your amp between songs.

Is this even possible?

Last edited by Ross AriaPro : 01-23-2014 at 09:26 PM.
  #2  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:21 PM
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Uuuh......that's most active preamps.......
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  #3  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:21 PM
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There are thousands of basses with three-band preamps. Maybe hundreds of thousands.
  #4  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:25 PM
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I mean a passive bass with three traditional tone controls...nothing with a battery.

Last edited by Ross AriaPro : 01-23-2014 at 09:28 PM.
  #5  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross AriaPro View Post

Is this even possible?
No.

Edit: See below from others and myself.

Last edited by Selta : 01-23-2014 at 09:56 PM.
  #6  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross AriaPro View Post
I mean a passive bass with three traditional tone controls...nothing with a battery.
Yes, but it is uncommon, because mid controls tend to cause noticeable volume drops.

Bass cuts are common on G&L basses. You simply run the signal in series with a capacitor, and place a pot parallel to it.

Mid cuts are generally done with band-stop filters consisting of a pot in series with a capacitor, in series with an inductor, with the whole thing parallel to the signal path.

Treble cut controls are simple LPF tone controls.
  #7  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by line6man View Post
Yes, but it is uncommon, because mid controls tend to cause noticeable volume drops.

Bass cuts are common on G&L basses. You simply run the signal in series with a capacitor, and place a pot parallel to it.

Mid cuts are generally done with band-stop filters consisting of a pot in series with a capacitor, in series with an inductor, with the whole thing parallel to the signal path.

Treble cut controls are simple LPF tone controls.
Thanks for posting...have you ever seen a wiring diagram for three controls?
  #8  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross AriaPro View Post
Is this even possible?...I mean a passive bass with three traditional tone controls...nothing with a battery.
Yes it is, but it's a bit tricky. Villex makes a passive 3-band EQ system for bass (I have one of his systems installed in one of my 5 strings).

In the strictest sense it's a cut-only system, the differences coming from a reduced overall output, but on the plus side it sounds really good. Bottom line: it can be done, but you don't get something for nothing. There's a reason why it's very unusual and not commonly seen.
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Last edited by Marcus Willett : 01-23-2014 at 09:46 PM.
  #9  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by line6man View Post
Yes, but it is uncommon, because mid controls tend to cause noticeable volume drops.

Bass cuts are common on G&L basses. You simply run the signal in series with a capacitor, and place a pot parallel to it.

Mid cuts are generally done with band-stop filters consisting of a pot in series with a capacitor, in series with an inductor, with the whole thing parallel to the signal path.

Treble cut controls are simple LPF tone controls.
Ahhhh. For some reason I was assuming boost + cut. The above would work, just would take up a chunk of room in the control cavity.
  #10  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by line6man View Post
Bass cuts are common on G&L basses. You simply run the signal in series with a capacitor, and place a pot parallel to it.

Mid cuts are generally done with band-stop filters consisting of a pot in series with a capacitor, in series with an inductor, with the whole thing parallel to the signal path.

Treble cut controls are simple LPF tone controls.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross AriaPro View Post
Thanks for posting...have you ever seen a wiring diagram for three controls?
I think with the above information you can easily draw your own wiring diagram.
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  #11  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus Willett View Post
Villex makes a passive 3-band EQ system for bass (I have one of his systems installed in one of my 5 strings).
I'll check that out thanks!

This is the G&L system for guitar.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpvjOlbAWAs#t=108
  #12  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Selta View Post
No.
Yes it is. It all depends on which capacitors you use. It's not as versatile as an active EQ, but it can be done.
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  #13  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by awilkie84 View Post
Yes it is. It all depends on which capacitors you use. It's not as versatile as an active EQ, but it can be done.
Yeah, I called myself out on it. I was under the assumption OP meant boost + cut. Just another shining example of what assuming does
  #14  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:52 PM
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Yes, a Modulus Genesis jazz passed thru my hands a few years ago. It had Villex pickups, all passive, with a mids control as I recall. Seemed to work "okay" but not nearly as effective as an active system.
  #15  
Old 01-23-2014, 09:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Selta View Post
No.


Gibson Rippers have passive mid and treble controls.

G&L's use passive treble and bass controls.

I've never seen anyone use all three, but there is no physics that prevents. I'm not sure all that cutting is a good idea in a pure passive circuit, but it can be done.
  #16  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selta View Post
...I was under the assumption OP meant boost + cut.
Well that's the thing. It can be boost and cut (this being relative) if the overall level is reduced and that is the new "flat" and you EQ from there. My Villex system works this way. The output reduction (all controls flat) is not enough to be a problem and the EQ works quite well.
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  #17  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:04 PM
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just get an active bass, or a preamp in a pedal.
  #18  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus Willett View Post
Well that's the thing. It can be boost and cut (this being relative) if the overall level is reduced and that is the new "flat" and you EQ from there. My Villex system works this way. The output reduction (all controls flat) is not enough to be a problem and the EQ works quite well.
Cutting lows + his != boosting mids, though it may sort of sound like it.

I'm kind of curious what all these systems do in regards to the loading of the pickups?
  #19  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:08 PM
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Originally Posted by CoarseBass View Post
G&L's use passive treble and bass controls.
Rickenbacker did the same on a couple of models, too.
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  #20  
Old 01-23-2014, 10:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Ross AriaPro View Post
Has anybody installed three tone controls on your passive instrument...one bass, one mid, and one treble.

So you dont have to mess with your amp between songs.

Is this even possible?
Passive controls can only bleed off volume, treble, bass or middle to ground.

SOOOO

If you bleed off treble, and bleed off middle and bleed off bass what is left to come through?

Your amp conmtrols are active they can boost.
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Last edited by Ric5 : 01-23-2014 at 10:13 PM.
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