Tuning down a half-step is awesome!

[guy n. cognito]

Originally Posted by Baird6869

I tune my 5ers a 1/2 step down in one band to help the singer.

I used to like it, but since I started using super light strings (.040-120), the B and E can be pretty floppy.

Heavier strings are best IME.

Yeah, I'm using 50-135s on mine.

[RusSB-2]

I've recently discovered the absolute joy that is D standard. Yes, it does get a little loose with a 45-105 gauge, but I love the super aggressive, dirty attack that I can get from it. (Think Glassjaw or more recent Saves The Day bass tones). Plus, the looser tension just sounds so much heavier.

[Groove Doctor]

Originally Posted by Makatak

I beg to differ and think in a covers band it sounds lame , ive got perfect pitch so its my problem only I know, but im hearing tunes in my head in the original key and playing them half a step down just sounds wrong.

Rerecord them a semitone down (via Audacity, etc). You simply reprogram what you're familiar with.

I even have to adjust some songs slightly to concert pitch as that annoys me more when they're 'out of tune' eg The Doors tuning is all over the place even between instruments within a song.

[DuShauh]

Am I missing something here? I totally get the concept of how downtuning changes the sound and tension...I actually prefer D rather than a semitone to Eb. However, how does that make anything easier for a singer? If a key change is needed for the singer, which is valid, simply change the key. An "E" is an "E" whenever or wherever it is played, right?

[sevdog]

I currently own 6 basses. 2 5ers and 4 4-bangers. There aren't 2 that are in the same tuning.

-tones are different
-tension/playability is different
-but #1 reason is that it makes my brain work in different ways and work things out differently.

Oh, and I just went and saw a band called Lo-Pan. I think I was the only one in the audience who appreciated it, which is really a shame.

"2000 years and you can't find one broad to fit the bill? Come on Dave, you must be doing something seriously wrong here!"

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by DuShauh

Am I missing something here? I totally get the concept of how downtuning changes the sound and tension...I actually prefer D rather than a semitone to Eb. However, how does that make anything easier for a singer? If a key change is needed for the singer, which is valid, simply change the key. An "E" is an "E" whenever or wherever it is played, right?

Sure an E is an E, but an Eb is not an E. When you change the key the song is in to a lower key, the vocal parts are changed to a lower key as well. Instead of singing a song in the key of B, for example, the song will now be sung in the key of Bb.

[eyeballkid]

Originally Posted by sevdog

Oh, and I just went and saw a band called Lo-Pan. I think I was the only one in the audience who appreciated it, which is really a shame

Lo-pan are amazing and get lots of love in these parts. Hella good guys to boot!!

[DuShauh]

Originally Posted by Floyd Eye

Sure an E is an E, but an Eb is not an E. When you change the key the song is in to a lower key, the vocal parts are changed to a lower key as well. Instead of singing a song in the key of B, for example, the song will now be sung in the key of Bb.

Thank You Sir. That is my point exactly. If the key of the song is now Eb, that is why it is easier for the singer. That, to me, has nothing to do with how my bass is tuned. It is merely changing the key. Which can, and should be done by simply playing in Eb rather E. To the OP's point, tuning down a half-step is awesome, with the right bass and strings a whole step is even better. But my issue was only with how that eases anything vocally. Technically, the key is being changed, and that can be done without tuning down.

[lokikallas]

Originally Posted by bassbenj

Yeah, just what I want an even MORE floppy B string! Plus tone that isn't as good as well. Sorry, guys, but I just don't get the down-tuning thing on ERBs unless you are tuning EADGC or something. But I down-tune my guitars all the time and they sound awesome...even the 7 string.

Um... They do sell strings in the appropriate gauge to solve your issue.

[wvbass]

I don't like the way my bass feels when tuned down. However, as with song selection, I let the singer drive this decision.

And as for the "perfect pitch" argument - please. If this is a problem for you, you better stay away from live music. Even artists that record at concert sometimes tune down for live performances. And, as singers get older, those songs they could sing at 20 are a lot more difficult at 60. These guys tune down a half step, a whole step, or whatever it takes. And what about all those songs recorded down tuned? Or the ones that are recorded not at any concert pitch - where the band just tuned to each other?

As for transposing instead of down tuning - this works a lot of times. However, there are plenty of open string riffs that make this a really difficult option sometimes. Plus, it confuses the guitards.

[Ric5]

I used to have a Rick 4001 tuned to EADG and a p-bass tuned to Eb and a jazz tuned to DGCF. But When I got a 5 string tuned BEADG then I no longer needed to detune. The only time I need to detune is when I need a low Bb, and that only happened once. Some 5 string players tune ADGCF. I have tried this a few times. The open low D and having 2 notes below low B make it interesting, but in the end BEADG does what I need 99% of the time. If I need the feel of low tensioned strings then I simple string the bass .125 .095 .075 .060 .040 strings.

[willsellout]

My guitarist asked me to tune down. I told him that I bought a 5 string so I didn't have to tune down

[Kmonk]

I actually prefer to play in standard tuning. I've been in bands that tuned to Eb or D and felt that everything sounded muddy.

[Herrick]

Originally Posted by maguire

Thanks dude - I like your forum attitude.

Me too

Downtuning is cool. I'm not a fan of it myself but I like how it sounds.

[khutch]

Originally Posted by DuShauh

Thank You Sir. That is my point exactly. If the key of the song is now Eb, that is why it is easier for the singer. That, to me, has nothing to do with how my bass is tuned. It is merely changing the key. Which can, and should be done by simply playing in Eb rather E.

You are completely correct, you can play any song in any key on any bass. But there are a few reasons to down tune to accommodate a key change. You can play an Eb somewhere on the fretboard on any bass. However you cannot play the Eb below the traditional (41 Hz) low E unless your bass has a string that goes that low. Some will regard this as essential, some as important, some as nice to have if you can do it, and for some it is a complete don't care. Those most in love with down tuning and 5+ string basses tend to regard it as essential. None of those opinions are right or wrong, they are just opinions.

Another type of person who loves to retune to accommodate key changes is the one who loves to play off open strings. Again this is neither right nor wrong, just a personal preference although it is apparently common in some types of music and nearly universal in metal (?). I am not this type of person so I cannot understand the need to retune on an emotional level, I can only appreciate intellectually that they are fine, intelligent musicians doing something that works best for what they love to do.

I tune my basses starting down two whole steps on C and then upwards from there in fifths until I run out of strings: CGDAE.... One of my basses came from the factory with a Hipshot tuner on the "E" string and I have that set up to go between C and the A below although I have yet to flip that lever during a performance. I am of the opinion that the low notes are nice to have once in a while but everyone else's opinions are just as valid. Play the tuning you like and have a different tuning on each bass if that suits you!

Ken

[Floyd Eye]

Originally Posted by DuShauh

Thank You Sir. That is my point exactly. If the key of the song is now Eb, that is why it is easier for the singer. That, to me, has nothing to do with how my bass is tuned. It is merely changing the key. Which can, and should be done by simply playing in Eb rather E. To the OP's point, tuning down a half-step is awesome, with the right bass and strings a whole step is even better. But my issue was only with how that eases anything vocally. Technically, the key is being changed, and that can be done without tuning down.

Well besides the problem of open notes and/or drop D when merely transposing, it is a damn sight less convenient isn't it? If you want to play everything in a different key, just tune down. Seems easier than transposing 60 songs.

[morgansterne]

if your guitarist is tuning down, it's a heck of a lot easier to just go with it and tune down as well. Otherwise it's a little difficult to have a conversation

guitarist: "can you hit that F# harder in the bridge"
bassist: "your F# or my F#?"

Rush plays guitars downtuned a whole step to play the stuff from 2112 these days (and put their fingers in the same places so that it comes out a whole step lower, in case you weren't sure!) It's easier for Geddy to sing that way. I love Rush, but honestly when he sings that high he's always sounded bad to me, so I'm glad they're lowering things a bit. When I saw their Clockwork Angels show the opening riff of 2112 sounded a little weird and muddy to me for about thirty seconds and then my brain got over it.

Roger Daltrey kept avoiding the high notes at the Sandy relief concert and his voice sounded tired. Made me wonder if they could have gotten away with downtuning and dropping the key a bit to help him out.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by Groove Doctor

Rerecord them a semitone down (via Audacity, etc). You simply reprogram what you're familiar with.

I even have to adjust some songs slightly to concert pitch as that annoys me more when they're 'out of tune' eg The Doors tuning is all over the place even between instruments within a song.

Somewhat related to the Doors having odd tunings.. The recent issue of BP had an article with Tom Scholz and he mentioned about how he would "tune the bass down and turn the tape speed up to get the sound i was after" (jan 2013 BP). I always wondered why i could never get a good match to a Boston tune. Or he would record with tape speed a half-step high and you had to play faster to get the sounds.

For all you newb's there was this great thing called 2" tape that bands recorded onto years ago.

[sevdog]

Originally Posted by gustobassman

For all you newb's there was this great thing called 2" tape that bands recorded onto years ago.

Wait a second! People record with something besides 2"?

Just kidding but a few months ago I used the term "ping pong" when talking to this young hot shot recording engineer about doing a possible ep with him. He didn't have a clue what we were talking about (we're all in our mid 30's)....long story short, we went with someone else.

...he also seriously thought putting something "on wax" was a term that the Beastie Boys coined and meant some kind of talking trash to someone. Damn kids, sorry for the derail.

[gustobassman]

Originally Posted by sevdog

...he also seriously thought putting something "on wax" was a term that the Beastie Boys coined and meant some kind of talking trash to someone. Damn kids, sorry for the derail.

I almost spit out my OJ. That was comedy!