Vintage bass purchases and consistency

[geddy402]

I'm going to focus on Fender jazz basses here but the comments don't have to be based on this example...

I've only played one 64 jazz before and it felt great.* But I figured people on this forum see a ton...so how consistent is the playability across the prime years (say 60-69...with pretty CBS being special prime).* I know there's things like the shape of the neck for a particular year or Brazilian rosewood that make them special.

Whenever I see ads that say "best I've ever played" "feels amazing" basically saying that whatever the latest vintage bass they have in stock is the greatest thing ever I get a little skeptical.* Obviously this is salesmanship bc they all can't be the best, right? Are they all pretty much spot on or are there some clunkers?

I know the same can be said for new mass production or custom shop type of basses. Some are just better...for whatever magical reason. And buying an instrument online is always a risk...is vintage any riskier than new (assuming reputable dealers)?

Thanks.

[DanGouge]

"Best I've ever played" is highly subjective whether a new or old bass. What's difficult with vintage is that the valuation depends so much on how much of the bass is original and so on. You do need to watch for fakes a bit more carefully.

[Jim Carr]

Most old fender basses, unless they have had some serious professional attention, have so-so frets, a neck hump in the upper positions, and not a lot of turns left on the truss rod nut. They just don't set-up well. The tuners also tend to be worn and have some "play." The prices are just plain silly. Consistency? Not in my humble opinion...at least not the good kind.

[RickC]

Vintage is probably riskier than new. Mfg consistency is pretty great these days and the risk of getting a "bad" bass is low, especially as you move up the food chain. I think vintage is skewed towards a higher rate of clunkers because those are the basses most likely to be on the market. You're less likely to find a good one because people are hanging on to the good ones.

I would never buy a vintage bass sight unseen, or if by mail without a decent (48 hours at least) no questions asked return period.

/rick

[Mr.Fingers]

As with every instrument: "there are no 2 pieces of wood alike". I've played on pre-CBS Fenders that needed to fetch a 5-digit number, that sounded and played like a cheap Squier, and I've played on late seventies Fenders (the era with the reputation of very bad, very heavy instruments) that played like a dream, with an extremely resonant sound, and I was happy to give multiple testicles if I could own those basses.

As for vintage basses, I would never buy one unseen and unplayed, in the first place to check for originality (I'm lucky I've learned over the years what to look for for specific years), but also for playability, for the reason I mentioned above.

Another thing you have to keep in mind: "vintage Fenders that are in absolute mint/unplayed condition are probably in that condition for a reason". That reason can be that the owner was EXTREMELY careful with the instrument, or it became from underneath a bed where it was forgotten for 50 years. But that's not that likely. Sadly enough it's probably because the bass has some issues: in the sound-department or really construction. There's a thread here on TB of someone with a mint '71 jazz that sounds dull, shallow and uninspiring.

The best advice I can give you for vintage basses: if it is purely for playing: go for the refinished ones, or the absolute beaten-do-death. The first because they are not original, and thus cheaper, the second because they've been loved and played to death for decades, and thus are probably very well built & sounding instruments.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by geddy402

I'm going to focus on Fender jazz basses here but the comments don't have to be based on this example...

I've only played one 64 jazz before and it felt great.* But I figured people on this forum see a ton...so how consistent is the playability across the prime years (say 60-69...with pretty CBS being special prime).* I know there's things like the shape of the neck for a particular year or Brazilian rosewood that make them special.

Whenever I see ads that say "best I've ever played" "feels amazing" basically saying that whatever the latest vintage bass they have in stock is the greatest thing ever I get a little skeptical.* Obviously this is salesmanship bc they all can't be the best, right? Are they all pretty much spot on or are there some clunkers?

I know the same can be said for new mass production or custom shop type of basses. Some are just better...for whatever magical reason. And buying an instrument online is always a risk...is vintage any riskier than new (assuming reputable dealers)?

Thanks.

One way to think about it is to observe how each was made. Eg compare the Fender factories (in the USA) from the pre-CBS era to today -

1959:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nswcAPvH0P8

2012:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVs98GmcrU4

after watching these you should be able to get an idea of which one has the greater level of hand-making and which will have the better consistency in terms of construction.

So it depends on whether you're buying as a collector or as something you want to play and gig with. As a collector, obviously I'd prize something from the 1959 factory with Tadeo Gomez's initials on the neck heel much more than something made last year.

But if I wanted to gig with it, I'd far rather have one from the factory as of last year where obviously the QC and overall quality is likely to be far better than a '59 instrument.

That'd be my take on it. Personally, having played several examples of both, it's no contest in terms of quality (modern Fenders are much better). But if I were rich, I'd probably try to get my hands on a real '59 P and a '64 jazz for a collection for sure (but play my Modern Player Jazz at gigs).

LS

[geddy402]

All good thoughts.

Its the allure of it more than anything for me. I have a perfectly good 64 CS jazz that is probably the best bass I've ever played. But the thought of having a real 64 has been in the back of my mind ever since I got the CS.

http://www.gbase.com/gear/fender-jaz...lympic-white-1

This one at Fiesta Finishes has me thinking about it...mainly because it isn't out of my price range....well its kinda sorta in it. I know its not all original but it seems like it has some mojo. And maybe that's what I'm more interested in than a perfectly clean vintage bass...something that has been played hard and keeps on going.

But there's no good reason for me to even want another bass...but I think we all know what it feels like once the GAS hits. And now that fiesta finishes got free advertising...someone will probably snag it before me!

[M.R. Ogle]

Originally Posted by unclejane

One way to think about it is to observe how each was made. Eg compare the Fender factories (in the USA) from the pre-CBS era to today -

1959:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nswcAPvH0P8

2012:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVs98GmcrU4

after watching these you should be able to get an idea of which one has the greater level of hand-making and which will have the better consistency in terms of construction.

So it depends on whether you're buying as a collector or as something you want to play and gig with. As a collector, obviously I'd prize something from the 1959 factory with Tadeo Gomez's initials on the neck heel much more than something made last year.

But if I wanted to gig with it, I'd far rather have one from the factory as of last year where obviously the QC and overall quality is likely to be far better than a '59 instrument.

LS

Excellent example. Agree 100%.

[Dbassmon]

What feels good is subjective. So you have got to play basses before you decide if it "feels good". When you buy on line, buy from a place you can return without hassle.

It terms 1959 v current, the consistency and quality are much better today, in my opinion. Maybe not as much personal, hands on attention but precision fit of parts has never been better, hardware in much improved.

Perhaps there is less great wood available today, I don't know. Probably all wood comes from sustainable sources and must meet certain specs.

At the end of it all, a bassist and an instrument... do they connect, does it sound good, does it feel good, totally subjective.

Only way to know is to play a bass and see..... regardless of when it was made.

[unclejane]

Originally Posted by Dbassmon

Perhaps there is less great wood available today, I don't know. Probably all wood comes from sustainable sources and must meet certain specs.

Not to butt in again, but one major difference you can see in the two vids is how the wood is prepared. In the "old days", it was just lumber sitting in a non-climate controlled warehouse. They had the doors open to the outside with fans on the floor, etc.

Nowadays many factories (and possibly Fender also?) store their wood in more climate-controlled conditions or specially age it before using it, etc.

That's partly why on older instruments the difference between a dud and a good one was rather huge and there were lots more duds than good ones. And the good ones weren't all that great either, especially compared to even cheaper modern instruments. Eg. my Modern Player JB is better quality-wise than any pre-CBS bass I've ever played period, and zounds better than my '70's JB I had in college was.

Today, the consistency in the quality of the woods is a lot better simply because of how it's stored and prepped.

As for wood availability, I hope we start using renewable resources (some manufacturers already are). I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little concerned about where my ebony fingerboards are coming from on my basses. That's part of why I still keep them even if they may go into disuse or I prefer one of my other ones, etc.

LS

[geddy402]

No worries. I agree with a lot of what you guys say. I guess you can compare it to vintage cars. You probably wouldn't want one for your everyday driver (reliability, comfort, gas hog) but they're a lot of fun to take out every now and then.

That's why a bass that has some good old fashion mojo and upgrades (like pick ups) seems to be a good route to go for the occasional Sunday drive.