Vintage Gibson non-reverse thunderbird bass troubles

TheFenderBender · #1 03-10-2013, 01:04 PM

So, went down to good old emerald city guitars with my old man to look at a non-reverse thunderbird he had been looking to buy. When I was looking at it, I noticed that there was no serial numbers, no logo, or anything. Upon further inspection, dscovered a scarf joint on the neck. As most know, the massive headstock with the tiny neck causes a lot of lost heads. So, my dad said they might have put it back on, but, based on the missing serial numbers and such, I think they just crafted a new one. Obviously, I was then concerned whether or not this whole thing was just some knock-off. It currently priced at $1800-$2000 range(the guy is willing to negotiate), and I am not sure what to do, it still plays nice, and is really cool, but should I take it or leave it?

Musicman20 · #2 03-10-2013, 02:51 PM

Leave it. 100%. Order a new one if possible online with a returns policy.

BawanaRik · #3 03-10-2013, 02:56 PM

A broken head stock is the Kiss of Death. And TBirds get that kiss very often.

I would walk away. Without a SN who knows what the story is.

SturmUndDrang · #4 03-10-2013, 03:07 PM

I'd be curious to check out the code numbers on the potentiometers at least. If they completely swapped out the headstock then of course it won't have a serial number. There's a chance everything else is still original. Those original t-bird pickups are hard to come by. If you can negotiate a decent price it might be worth it. The pots should give you a somewhat better idea if your looking at the real thing if you can read the numbers.

lavmonga · #5 03-10-2013, 06:32 PM

I wouldn't buy any instrument for 2 grand that didn't have a serial number on it.

T-Bird · #6 03-10-2013, 09:24 PM

Hi.

What's the going price of a NR with a repaired headstock these days?

I have (or have had) a few Gibsons that I have made new headstocks to, and a few that I cafted a piece to go between the neck and the headstock just to retain the serial number, so I'd say it's not too uncommon to find one like You possibly did.

A repair like that, if there's a way to confirm it's a Gibson indeed, usually cuts the price in half. A repair done using the old headstock cuts the price about 30%.

A one piece, angled headstock mahogany neck IME shatters pretty badly pretty easily, so a new headstock is sometimes the more feasible repair option.

Vintage NR's are not that easy to come by, so if it plays well, there's the correct markings on the PU cavity and the parts and the rest of the bass can be authenticated, I'd try to haggle a bit.

I wouldn't neessarily buy that kind of an instrument for that kind of money on a parking lot, but a reputable shop, definitely yes. If they sell it as a Gibson and price it accordingly, there's AFAIK very little that You (or Your old man) can lose.

Regards
Sam

mordechai · #7 03-10-2013, 09:58 PM

According to this site, there were only around 700 NR Thunderbirds made. http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bas...rbird_1966.php

I've only seen a couple for sale online, and I'm pretty sure they were closer to the $4000 range.

Is this being sold as any specific year? Also interesting is that the scale length was longer than 34". I'd definitely pull a ruler out and measure from the nut to the 12th fret.

Try to find some photos of cavity routing and such on originals, and what the heel looks like. These are things that can usually a tell a counterfeit from the real thing.

If it's what the seller claims, the price seems about right for something with a broken/new headstock.

Showdown · #8 03-11-2013, 12:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BawanaRik

A broken head stock is the Kiss of Death. And TBirds get that kiss very often.

While a repaired broken neck does devalue a bass (and this bass may not be worth what they are asking), it isn't the kiss of death. There are many Tbirds with necks that have been broken that are good, usable basses. I have a '76 Tbird that has a repaired broken neck, and the neck is extremely stable. I haven't adjusted the truss rod in nearly 5 years.

One Drop · #9 03-11-2013, 01:03 AM

Not only is not the kiss of death, a well repaired one will be stronger than the original vintage one and resist future breakage more easily b

RickC · #10 03-12-2013, 10:30 AM

Plus it's "already been broken". One less thing to worry about. Like getting that first scratch on your new car.

/rick

One Drop · #11 03-12-2013, 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mordechai

According to this site, there were only around 700 NR Thunderbirds made. http://www.flyguitars.com/gibson/bas...rbird_1966.php

I've only seen a couple for sale online, and I'm pretty sure they were closer to the $4000 range.

Is this being sold as any specific year? Also interesting is that the scale length was longer than 34". I'd definitely pull a ruler out and measure from the nut to the 12th fret.

Try to find some photos of cavity routing and such on originals, and what the heel looks like. These are things that can usually a tell a counterfeit from the real thing.

If it's what the seller claims, the price seems about right for something with a broken/new headstock.

I own one of them, the lousy H/S repair became undone during shipping and I have to make the tough decision as to how completely I want to restore the instrument.

Webtroll · #12 03-12-2013, 11:28 AM

+1 to the repair not being the kiss of death and +1 to not paying that much for a bass with no S/N (that always makes me wonder if it had been previously stolen, bad karma).

Rob Martinez · #13 03-12-2013, 11:35 AM

I have a line on a vintage NR Gibson Thunderbird, all original parts save for the bridge, which needed replacing. It was made in 1966. Do these sound like a classic T Bird, or are they a different animal?

godofthunder59 · #14 03-12-2013, 11:37 AM

Slow down people. I have been playing nonreverse Thunderbirds almost exclusively since '77. Repaired or replaced headstocks are common. At the moment I have 5 60's NRs all either repaired or replaced. Over the years I have had several unbroken ones and they always stayed home I didn't wan to take them out. If the work is well done the bass will play fine and last a lifetime. Price? 1,500-1,800 would be a bargain. If you don't want it I do! One of my stage beater NRs with replaced headstock, btw apprised at 3,500

Video of beater NR note at end where I have the headstock up against the cab for feed back I do this every night with no breakage

https://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...&v=OUZ5R6eMuz8

godofthunder59 · #15 03-12-2013, 11:47 AM

Any Pictures? Is it a II or a IV ( one or two pickup) ? Original finish?

Rob Martinez · #16 03-12-2013, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godofthunder59

Any Pictures? Is it a II or a IV ( one or two pickup) ? Original finish?

Original finish, well worn. I can get photos in a week or so. I can't remember the PU configuration. I will get more info. The PUs are originals.

Rob Martinez · #17 03-12-2013, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godofthunder59

Any Pictures? Is it a II or a IV ( one or two pickup) ? Original finish?

Two pick ups.

godofthunder59 · #18 03-12-2013, 12:24 PM

NR Thunderbirds are a bit hotter than the earlier '63-'65 reverse Thunderbirds. The '76 don't sound like Thunderbirds at all weak and brittle and the post '89 way to modern sounding. Original Thunderbird pick ups have excellent mid and top end response with a hint of inherent overdrive. Hope that helps

smcd · #19 03-12-2013, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by godofthunder59

Any Pictures? Is it a II or a IV ( one or two pickup) ? Original finish?

They say up front the neck has been refinished and the headstock repaired.

RickC · #20 03-12-2013, 12:46 PM

The NR is very much a Thunderbird, tonewise. The NRs I've come across have always had a slightly bigger neck profile than the reverses, which I always considered a plus. I've owned my first one since 1973 - still my favorite bass ever after all these years. I've also owned a couple of reverses, never liked em as much. I had a long talk with Allen Woody on this very topic back when he was still working at Gruhn (and before he was ALLEN WOODY) and he felt the same way.

/rick