What can a Fender do that my SX can't

[ibateur]

Appreciate in price is not the same as appreciate in value though I'm sure there's a buyer for any thing, willing to pay a price you set.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by BryanM

As I mentioned before, I've played a few dozen American fenders and I'm not impressed at all by the tone, feel or fit and I'm pretty sure it's not just a bad store with setups and such. It's been at multiple guitar centers and a few local shops, one of which is a reputable fender dealer almost exclusively.

The fretwork was passable at best but by no means phenomenal, the electronics left a lot to be desired even compared to my $180 SX, and the neck is uncomfortable and clunky. I keep picking up American Fenders because I hear everyone talk about how amazed they are by them and I'm let down every time. The only time I've really been impressed by a Fender in a store is playing a Japanese made Geddy Lee.

Editing to let fans of Fender know these comments are by no means meant to be inflammatory, just my personal experience.

I suggest you stick to SX, since they seem to be just right for you...


- georgestrings

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by AlmightyPancake

It can't "do" anything that your SX can't, obviously. The question is not what they do but how they do it.

A Fender will likely be more comfortable, have a better sound, better construction, better hardware, and it will last longer and provide a better sound. Obviously, it boils down to personal preference; no bass is "objectively" better than another since some players might like chintzy hardware, sub-par wood, and lo-fidelity electronics. If you like your SX, then continue gigging with it. If you feel it's not cutting it, upgrade. This thread might as well be titled "what can chocolate chip ice cream do that vanilla can't?"

Just about every statement in that post is demonstrably wrong! Personally I love chitzy hardware, sub-par wood, and lo-fidelity electronics. That is why I bought my Fender Deluxe V! It's great! It's got one of those chintzy bent-metal tincan bridges that Fender actually invented. It's got a body made of about 12 pieces of Alder glued together but covered with a very nice alder veneer so you can't tell what a piece of crap it is. And of course it has that classic low-fidelity Fender preamp that everyone hates. It even came with nasty-sounding pickups I had to swap out. My SX basses, on the other hand have three pieces of really nice ash or alder (typically in natural finish so you can SEE they are really nice), it has a diecast heavy metal bridge with actual grooves for the saddle screws, and of course they are ALL passive so there is nothing in the electronics produce any "lo-fi" sound!

So I got it all covered! I got my SX basses when I really want to rock and I've got my Fenders when I want to enjoy a piece of crap (I forgot to mention that all my SX basses have nice fat necks I love and I truly hate that Fender Jazz neck profile).

But wait. Just WHY did I spring for Fenders? Well, that would be because of the fact that Fenders actually CAN do things an SX can't. One of those things as some have already mentioned is to bring a huge price from the crowd that thinks that OLD crap basses are worth a lot more than new crap basses. They APPRECIATE in value! My SX basses don't seem to do that.

But the ONE thing that Fenders do that SX basses don't (at least not without a lot of mods) is to have a Fender-shaped headstock that actually says "FENDER" on it! I simply can't tell you how important this is musically! It can mean the difference between getting a gig and not getting one. It can mean the band welcomes you as the new guy with open arms or sends you packing. And it can mean that the producer doesn't send you home to bring back a "real" bass.

AND THAT is what Fenders do that SX basses can't.

[AlastairWatts]

Originally Posted by bassbenj

Just about every statement in that post is demonstrably wrong! Personally I love chitzy hardware, sub-par wood, and lo-fidelity electronics. That is why I bought my Fender Deluxe V! It's great! It's got one of those chintzy bent-metal tincan bridges that Fender actually invented. It's got a body made of about 12 pieces of Alder glued together but covered with a very nice alder veneer so you can't tell what a piece of crap it is. And of course it has that classic low-fidelity Fender preamp that everyone hates. It even came with nasty-sounding pickups I had to swap out. My SX basses, on the other hand have three pieces of really nice ash or alder (typically in natural finish so you can SEE they are really nice), it has a diecast heavy metal bridge with actual grooves for the saddle screws, and of course they are ALL passive so there is nothing in the electronics produce any "lo-fi" sound!

So I got it all covered! I got my SX basses when I really want to rock and I've got my Fenders when I want to enjoy a piece of crap (I forgot to mention that all my SX basses have nice fat necks I love and I truly hate that Fender Jazz neck profile).

But wait. Just WHY did I spring for Fenders? Well, that would be because of the fact that Fenders actually CAN do things an SX can't. One of those things as some have already mentioned is to bring a huge price from the crowd that thinks that OLD crap basses are worth a lot more than new crap basses. They APPRECIATE in value! My SX basses don't seem to do that.

But the ONE thing that Fenders do that SX basses don't (at least not without a lot of mods) is to have a Fender-shaped headstock that actually says "FENDER" on it! I simply can't tell you how important this is musically! It can mean the difference between getting a gig and not getting one. It can mean the band welcomes you as the new guy with open arms or sends you packing. And it can mean that the producer doesn't send you home to bring back a "real" bass.

AND THAT is what Fenders do that SX basses can't.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

[DwaynieAD]

people listen with their eyes.

[hover]

Originally Posted by DwaynieAD

people listen with their eyes.

A little too much.
That said, not at all surprised to see yet another devolved into Fender bashing thread...whoop dee doo.

[SteveHeissner]

I'm not a very good bassist so I need a Fender and a Gibson to compensate. If I were as good as, say, Victor Wooten, Steve Harris, or Geddy Lee I'd sound just fine playing an SX.

[ggvicviper]

I'd like to try an SX to see where all the love/hate comes from.

With that said, I have always enjoyed playing on Fenders. I've only really owned one uncomfortable Fender (a slab '51 RI P), and I've never had a tone problem with any of them at all. Even quality wise, only one I ever had real issues with was my dad's '76 Jazz.

[TRichardsbass]

It can't legally say "Fender" on the headstock.....

[Bassmunnky]

Same line of thinking as the Why don't we all play CARVINs Thread..right under this one.

Basses generally don't suck...players do.

[overdrivethree]

Have said it before, repeating it here:

I look at Fenders like the original #2 pencil. Since those were first invented, there's been many copies/variations on the basic concept, some of higher quality than others.

Absolutely nothing against Fender. They get the job done. I have played a '75 Jazz reissue, while I own the SX '70s Jazz copy. I couldn't say the SX has the same fit/build of the Fender reissue. But it's a fine bass on its own, and it gets the job done just fine. If I had the $1700 or whatever for the genuine '75 Jazz reissue, I might go for it if I was in the mood. But nothing I lose sleep or drool over. I've had the SX long enough, and I've tweaked it/set it up to where it feels totally comfortable and it suits my style.

And frankly, since Fender has lately begun importing instruments from China with the Fender (not Squier) logo on the headstock, then I just can't feel too bad about springing for an SX instead. That's not intended as a dig or to be inflammatory, but to me that is the point where it's just about the name on the headstock, vs the actual instrument.

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by bassbenj

Just about every statement in that post is demonstrably wrong! Personally I love chitzy hardware, sub-par wood, and lo-fidelity electronics. That is why I bought my Fender Deluxe V! It's great! It's got one of those chintzy bent-metal tincan bridges that Fender actually invented. It's got a body made of about 12 pieces of Alder glued together but covered with a very nice alder veneer so you can't tell what a piece of crap it is. And of course it has that classic low-fidelity Fender preamp that everyone hates. It even came with nasty-sounding pickups I had to swap out. My SX basses, on the other hand have three pieces of really nice ash or alder (typically in natural finish so you can SEE they are really nice), it has a diecast heavy metal bridge with actual grooves for the saddle screws, and of course they are ALL passive so there is nothing in the electronics produce any "lo-fi" sound!

So I got it all covered! I got my SX basses when I really want to rock and I've got my Fenders when I want to enjoy a piece of crap (I forgot to mention that all my SX basses have nice fat necks I love and I truly hate that Fender Jazz neck profile).

But wait. Just WHY did I spring for Fenders? Well, that would be because of the fact that Fenders actually CAN do things an SX can't. One of those things as some have already mentioned is to bring a huge price from the crowd that thinks that OLD crap basses are worth a lot more than new crap basses. They APPRECIATE in value! My SX basses don't seem to do that.

But the ONE thing that Fenders do that SX basses don't (at least not without a lot of mods) is to have a Fender-shaped headstock that actually says "FENDER" on it! I simply can't tell you how important this is musically! It can mean the difference between getting a gig and not getting one. It can mean the band welcomes you as the new guy with open arms or sends you packing. And it can mean that the producer doesn't send you home to bring back a "real" bass.

AND THAT is what Fenders do that SX basses can't.

Yes! Beautifully said.
However, there is one thing that SX basses can do that Fenders can't...
You all know the apocryphal story that goes something like this:

"This cat walks in with a brown paper bag. He pulls out a piece of s**t bass -- I mean, it's missing a string, the knobs are gone, pieces of wood are falling off, and it has some name no one's ever heard of. Everybody's laughing. The cat doesn't say anything. Then, he plugs in and proceeds to play the baddest [best] stuff anyone's ever heard!!"

See? It's much easier to do this with an SX than with a Fender. (Something about lowered expectations.)

[hardtwister]

Originally Posted by bassbenj

Just about every statement in that post is demonstrably wrong! Personally I love chitzy hardware, sub-par wood, and lo-fidelity electronics. That is why I bought my Fender Deluxe V! It's great! It's got one of those chintzy bent-metal tincan bridges that Fender actually invented. It's got a body made of about 12 pieces of Alder glued together but covered with a very nice alder veneer so you can't tell what a piece of crap it is. And of course it has that classic low-fidelity Fender preamp that everyone hates. It even came with nasty-sounding pickups I had to swap out. My SX basses, on the other hand have three pieces of really nice ash or alder (typically in natural finish so you can SEE they are really nice), it has a diecast heavy metal bridge with actual grooves for the saddle screws, and of course they are ALL passive so there is nothing in the electronics produce any "lo-fi" sound!

So I got it all covered! I got my SX basses when I really want to rock and I've got my Fenders when I want to enjoy a piece of crap (I forgot to mention that all my SX basses have nice fat necks I love and I truly hate that Fender Jazz neck profile).

But wait. Just WHY did I spring for Fenders? Well, that would be because of the fact that Fenders actually CAN do things an SX can't. One of those things as some have already mentioned is to bring a huge price from the crowd that thinks that OLD crap basses are worth a lot more than new crap basses. They APPRECIATE in value! My SX basses don't seem to do that.

But the ONE thing that Fenders do that SX basses don't (at least not without a lot of mods) is to have a Fender-shaped headstock that actually says "FENDER" on it! I simply can't tell you how important this is musically! It can mean the difference between getting a gig and not getting one. It can mean the band welcomes you as the new guy with open arms or sends you packing. And it can mean that the producer doesn't send you home to bring back a "real" bass.

AND THAT is what Fenders do that SX basses can't.

IMO Fender did something very special a long time ago. So much so that the whole world is still trying to recreate it. Fender Japan comes close. I don't forsee anybody making copies of an SX.

[Margus Alviste]

Fender's wood vibrates better!

[dougjwray]

Originally Posted by Margus Alviste

Fender's wood vibrates better!

You're just being silly.
Everyone knows that wood has no effect on the sound!

[TRichardsbass]

As someone associated with both a boutique US and import line, I can tell you that these lines of discussion and thought, while interesting and well intentioned, are mostly moot.

First, yes, most of the major manufacturers now have Chinese import versions, and yes, a lot of them are made under the same roof in the same factory. So the "craftsmanship" is about the same, but the QC and QA are where it differs. Gibson and Fender either place personnel or hire personnel to be in China/Asia/wherever to ensure that the products are made to their specs. Others provide a spec, usually do one or two visits, then do all the QC and QA here in the states. More risk, but normally not too bad.

If you wanted to tell me that the Fender import and the SX import were identical, I could tell you no. If you want to tell me that there is not enough difference to convince you to pay double for a Fender, I'd say you are correct. The difference between J and P bass copies coming from the same manufacturing area is very slight, especially given that these two designs have been in manufacture for over 50 years. Now, a larger company, like Fender, definitely carries more influence, and can get product faster, and get more or better attention because they order quantities that basically keep the plants a wash in work and dough. SX probably makes one one hundredth of the number of basses that Fender will order just from one factory in a year So, who is going to get more/better attention?

This argument was much better in the late '70s with the MIJ Matsumoku and Fujigen stuff. The Aria Pro II line and the Ibanez Musician stuff was MUCH BETTER then anything Fender was making in the US at the time, and its design and detail rivaled Alembic, IMHO. If you have ever had the opportunity to try a lawsuit P or J copy from the Aria, Ibanez or Hondo factories then, I would defy you to tell me it wasn't as good if not better then anything being played or made. That is why you see tons of Aria, Ibanez Silver series Roadstar P, PJ and J basses popping up all over late '70-s and early '80s bands. Far and away 5 times better at one half the price.

I have always liked the "SX Pirate" bass, and thought about scooping one up. Clearly an excellent modification platform. Which, is not a bad thing. The ability to invest say $350 dollars in a better bridge and new electronics, maybe even tuners, get a good fret dress and you have, for about $500, a bass that is as much of a workhorse as any you can ever find, and its "custom", as its what YOU want.

So, honestly, if all you can afford is an SX, it is more then fine. Get a good fret dress and set it up for you, and it will perform live as well as just about any other bass you see regularly. Its not better, and its not worse, then its equivalent model Fender or brand name counterpart made in the same country.

Danelelctro and Silvertone were discount, cheap instruments made in the '50s and '60s. Masonite tops, frames stapled together, necks made without adjustable truss rods. There are still TONS of them available today, and they are as old as me, and they are all still good. The SX someday will be the same. I am sure, assuming 50 years from now music still uses stringed and fretted instruments, that there will be quite a market for a "vintage SX with original headstock."

As for me, I have always found that US made instruments have something intangible that non-US instruments don't, and if the Asian guitar collector market is any indication, most of the world thinks the same.

Although I am gassing for a nice Atlansia.....paging H. Noble....

[pacojas]

hey Bryan,...

it's okay if you say you don't like any MIA's. i get the feeling that you do like them, but not the price! IME, the SX isn't any where near the MIA in any category. if it suits you, fine, but i have never played one that i would pay $90.00 for!
different strokes...

The SX someday will be the same. I am sure, assuming 50 years from now music still uses stringed and fretted instruments, that there will be quite a market for a "vintage SX with original headstock."

ROTFLMAO!!!!

[Eric Moesle]

I own both an American Fender and an SX.

I gig the American Fender, but SOMETIMES will gig the SX as a backup, but in order to do so, I:

- swapped quality pickups in it, the SX pickups are a bit raw and unbalanced. I notice this, others might not...

- I sanded and refinished the back of the neck, it was very sticky feeling.

- I do a complete setup on every new bass I get, regardless of whether boutique or cheapie, they all need it after shipping. Also swap with quality strings, regardless...

- I did some fret leveling and recrowning on the SX. Out of the box it was serviceable, but there were definitely some high fret spots..... a few of them extreme that caused buzzing only on certain notes.

I have no qualms about gigging the SX, but despite all of this it still does not play our sound QUITE as good as my american fender . . . . though it does get pretty darn close. Also, the SX is MUCH heavier than my Fender.

[inthevelvet]

Originally Posted by Mike Sorr

... My signature says, "Now which one is the bass player?" That's something that was actually said to my wife when she told a friend I was in the band they were watching. To your average club goer, as long as they hear the low end in the mix they don't care if your bass costs $200 or $2000, or if your amp is powerful enough to melt rocks. Your average music appreciating bar fly doesn't know the difference between a Warwick bass, or a Walmart bass. If it sounds good, it is good.

I agree. Everytime we see a band, my girl asks me - "which one is the bass?" Until she met me a year ago, she actually didn't know there was a bass guitar and a "regular" guitar.

[buckeyebragi]

I just picked up a Squier Bronco. I've had a Fender Mustang, MIA Peavey Forum, Fender Jazz, an Ibanez sr300, older Ibanez PJ set-up, and a 5er and 6er. So, what does my wife say she likes the sound of the best? The flippin' stock cheap Bronco. Which just goes to prove that while we may hear big differences, most people just don't and while we spend buttloads finding our "sound"...someone is gonna be like "hey man, where is your SX? It sounds tons better than the Fender.".