What does "original" mean to you re:vintage basses

[TC2112]

I just saw some parts threads in the accessories forum here and it made me think about people selling or restoring vintage basses. If you buy a bass from someone stating it's original, is it ok to expect the parts on the bass came with it originally, or is it ok for someone to claim an original bass if the parts, while may be from the same year and make, but were not originally a part of that particular bass? Your thoughts?

[JimB52]

I have seen vintage basses for sale with the description "period correct" for replaced parts from the same year. That would be the honest way to sell it.
There are others, including a regular vintage bass seller on eBay, who are less forthcoming.

[Caca de Kick]

Well original would be all the parts on that bass as it left the factory. But you also have to remember, old Fenders are 'parts' basses. The tough thing is, who could tell if a 64 bass bridge saddle was the replaced from a 66?

[Chasarms]

Original, to me, suggests it is just as it was new. Unaltered. That said, if the bass had gotten period correct replacements over the years, it may be very tough to tell.

[lpdeluxe]

This is a manifestation of the obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) that infests the "vintage" market. Don't worry, be happy. Basses are made to make music. Change what you have to.

[Waterpilot]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

Well original would be all the parts on that bass as it left the factory.

Originally Posted by Chasarms

Original, to me, suggests it is just as it was new. Unaltered.

+1 To both. This is what I would expect. If a part was replaced, after it left the factory, in my opinion it's not an original part to that particular bass.

[Caca de Kick]

Originally Posted by Chasarms

Original, to me, suggests it is just as it was new. Unaltered.

See, that's where it can be really tough....
I bought my 69 Jazz from the original owner. He installed a set of DiMarzios back in the day, but kept everything, and I put the originals back in. I have everything down to the original stap buttons. Is it, original????

Doesn't matter to me, it's going to the grave anyway.

[TomB]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

See, that's where it can be really tough....
I bought my 69 Jazz from the original owner. He installed a set of DiMarzios back in the day, but kept everything, and I put the originals back in. I have everything down to the original stap buttons. Is it, original????

Doesn't matter to me, it's going to the grave anyway.

I think so. Original to me simply means what came with the bass, and so your pickkups qualify IMO.

Most instruments that have been played have needed something replaced or repaired. That's just a fact, and a replacement part to me is not "original", but IMO needn't devalue the instrument if it's a player (I'm not talking mint or closet classic or anything, here).

For instance, my '63 Jazz is wearing new frets since '95. Are they original... No (I ended up w/the originals in a bag if anybody wants 'em . My pickups died, and being the era before we even cared ("vintage hadn't really been coined yet in the early '80's) I just got new ones. They're not originals.

That's my take, anyway.

[TC2112]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

See, that's where it can be really tough....
I bought my 69 Jazz from the original owner. He installed a set of DiMarzios back in the day, but kept everything, and I put the originals back in. I have everything down to the original stap buttons. Is it, original????

Doesn't matter to me, it's going to the grave anyway.

That, to me, would be original, and as was stated earlier, they do kind of come out of the factory as parts basses. Maybe not so much with the early stuff, but I remember several of those S9 serials having parts all the way up to 81 and pots as far back as 76.

I think the conversation is interesting, but as was also stated earlier, how would you know? a bridge is a bridge is a bridge (unless it's really old with the serial number on it)

[RickC]

Original wood and finish, period correct hardware. That's enough for me. There is almost no way to guarantee that hardware is original to the instrument. If it's changed hands at all before you see it, the current owner probably doesn't know for sure either.

The only way to be sure an instrument is 100% factory original is to buy from the original owner and assume he isn't lying or with fully documented provenance. Both are rare, and both add huge $$$ to an already inflated price because the only market for that level of originality is the high end collector/investment market. I suspect that most folks on this board who are interested in vintage instruments don't really require that level of originality; which is good, because at this point in the game it's an unreasonable expectation.

/rick

[Chasarms]

Originally Posted by Caca de Kick

See, that's where it can be really tough....
I bought my 69 Jazz from the original owner. He installed a set of DiMarzios back in the day, but kept everything, and I put the originals back in. I have everything down to the original stap buttons. Is it, original????

Doesn't matter to me, it's going to the grave anyway.

Maybe unaltered is too strong of a word. I would agree that your bass is original. Re-soldering is akin to a regular repair in my opinion.

[klejst]

Original means to me no matter if it is a standard bass, reissue, special edition, deluxe, etc. As long as all pieces and parts of the bass are the originals from the original manufacturer/factory. I.e. No parts basses, mods, or changes.

[bstringrandy]

Originally Posted by TC2112

That, to me, would be original, and as was stated earlier, they do kind of come out of the factory as parts basses. Maybe not so much with the early stuff, but I remember several of those S9 serials having parts all the way up to 81 and pots as far back as 76.

I think the conversation is interesting, but as was also stated earlier, how would you know? a bridge is a bridge is a bridge (unless it's really old with the serial number on it)

Yep, I have an S9 P-Bass with pots that date 81 and 82 and a neck stamped Sept 82. All of the numbers match, so I call it an 82 P-Bass and leave it at that...

[smcd]

Originally Posted by lpdeluxe

Basses are made to make music. Change what you have to.

^ Worst advice ever.






It is impossible to tell "original" from "period correct" on any guitar. It's not worth wasting time thinking about.

[brianrost]

What original means to me is it's a lot more expensive

The easiest way to save on vintage gear is to go with stuff that is not original. A good refin...fine with me, I'll save 25% at least. Stripped to natural? Maybe another 20%. Pots were replaced, pickup was rewound, some pickup screws are brand new...I'm just watching that price fall and fall

Original is good for the seller if he can prove it, for a buyer it's better if there are changes. Once the finish is gone, you can always refin yourself if you'd like sea foam green and those replacement tuners work better too

[smcd]

Originally Posted by brianrost

What original means to me is it's a lot more expensive

The easiest way to save on vintage gear is to go with stuff that is not original. A good refin...fine with me, I'll save 25% at least. Stripped to natural? Maybe another 20%. Pots were replaced, pickup was rewound, some pickup screws are brand new...I'm just watching that price fall and fall

Original is good for the seller if he can prove it, for a buyer it's better if there are changes. Once the finish is gone, you can always refin yourself if you'd like sea foam green and those replacement tuners work better too

Then why buy a vintage bass at all? What you end up getting is an expensive piece of old wood with new parts stuck on it that is going to be a pain in the neck to sell.

[narud]

Originally Posted by smcd

Then why buy a vintage bass at all? What you end up getting is an expensive piece of old wood with new parts stuck on it that is going to be a pain in the neck to sell.

tone.

[TechJunky]

To me, if a bass is listed as original, then it should mean nothing has been changed, added, or removed. If something was changed, even with a period correct or identical item, I think it should be noted in the description. I don't necessarily think it should alter the value, at least not much, but it should still be stated for those collectors who truly want all original with no modifications on any level. However, this only applies to vintage instruments to me. If it's a more modern instrument (and typically lower valued), I wouldn't expect as much attention to detail as it generally won't make as much of a difference. The trouble is determining what year/level of vintage would be the cutoff point.

[zachoff]

Basically nothing but the strings have been changed. I can also do w/ the strap buttons being changed out for straplocks.

[smcd]

Originally Posted by narud

tone.

Does that tone come from the changed pickups or the updated hardware?