Why all the Tobias Growler Gibson Hate???

[MortallyWounded]

By now, this is old news. But for those of you who don't know, Gibson couldn't handle building basses with Michael Tobias' name on there, as they couldn't make them nearly as well as Michael himself.

Since then, Michael Tobias went off and formed a new company, easily recognized as MTD (Michael Tobias Design). Kingston, NY-made MTDs are as good as any old school Tobias bass, IMHO. I own a 10-year-old Korean-made Kingston 5, and it's way nicer to play than any Epiphone bass I've ever picked up.

Why compare them to Epiphone? Because Tobias basses are now sold by Epiphone, as an Epiphone-branded bass, and the Tobias name is being used as a model name/marketing ploy.

I can't even pick them up to fiddle with at the music store. There's just something spooky about holding a "Tobias" bass made in Korea or Indonesia, labeled as an Epiphone model... I feel like I'll be killed by poltergeists in my sleep if I were to even try to play one. Something supernatural about them. They're haunted.

Take a look at the Epiphone page and see if they look like even half the bass they used to be. Compare one to even an early Korean-made MTD like mine. There's just no point in even looking at anything that says "Tobias" on it anymore. It's a shame Gibson and Epiphone have been so lousy at handling production of these basses.

Get an MTD. They're worth it. They may not have the feel of an old-school, pre-Gibson Toby, but nothing ever will again.

Oh, and don't hate. Hate is bad.

[zfunkman]

Tobias went down hill after it was purchased by Gibson. All the love is for pre-Gibson Tobias. Night and Day INHO

[MortallyWounded]

Originally Posted by zfunkman

Tobias went down hill after it was purchased by Gibson. All the love is for pre-Gibson Tobias. Night and Day INHO

Don't forget though, Michael and his team worked exclusively on the basses at Gibson for a while. All Gibson did was provide them with better facilities. But without Michael and crew, Gibson was terrible. It was when the crew wouldn't relocate that Michael backed out and started MTD.

[scubaduba]

Right. There are perfectly fine Gibson Tobias instruments hand made by Mike and team. It's when Mike and crew moved on that quality consistency and attention to detail suffered. That being said I once owned a fully Gibson made Tobias Classic 5 and more than one Growler. Quality was outstanding in all. But I've seen the opposite to be true as well.

The Growler is an example of a very creative product from Gibson. Essentially two preamps in one bass.

[Danhorse]

This is an eye opener, man, I am out of the loop for 20 years on bass and everything changes!

I used to lust over Tobias basses at the Bass Centre Uk, now they are owned by Gibson and there are cheap starter basses on offer from them!

I would love a fretless Tobias, maybe will look out for a used pre..

[Meddle]

Originally Posted by zfunkman

Tobias went down hill after it was purchased by Gibson. All the love is for pre-Gibson Tobias. Night and Day INHO

It would be the same as Carl Thompson getting bought out by Cort, who then make Cort CT basses which look a bit like original Thompson basses but are made cheaply and sold at MIM prices.

Sure they might be good ~MIM priced instruments, but original Carl Thompson owners would have a right to be annoyed.

In a similar sense, Washburn would probably sell more Taurus-series basses, and get more praise, if they hadn't stolen the Jerzy Drozd body shape.

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by Danhorse

This is an eye opener, man, I am out of the loop for 20 years on bass and everything changes!

I used to lust over Tobias basses at the Bass Centre Uk, now they are owned by Gibson and there are cheap starter basses on offer from them!

I would love a fretless Tobias, maybe will look out for a used pre..

Or look at MTD basses instead (and MTD Kingston for the more affordable models).

[Danhorse]

Originally Posted by SoVeryTired

Or look at MTD basses instead (and MTD Kingston for the more affordable models).

Thanks mate! I shall

[HeavyJazz77]

As a late dealer I can attest that Gibson quality is among the most inconsistent in the market. Whether priced at $300 or $3,000 we constantly had to fix their instruments so they could be sold. They're known to taking something 'good' and making it 'worse'. That's not say there aren't exceptions, but that's the skinny on Gibson.

[wolfmancharlie]

I owned a Gibson Tobias Growler for the last 2 years and finaly traded the bass away. It had the WORST neck I have ever encountered in 40 years of playing bass.Fret wires were a little sharp when I purchased it but not real bad, then the sprout got worse and worse until it would cut you when you tried to play it.Spent hours fileing the wires down and it was good for a month then the neck started bowing .Took it to my tech ,cost 40 bucks got it all good took her home played great for three months ,more neck sprout. Now I have been treating this bass as my baby,Lemon oil on the Wenge fretboard to keep it from drying out,doing everything I can think of , nothing helped. Back to my tech who couldn't believe it either. The last year finaly made me dislike the Growler. Constant trips to my tech, truss rod adjustments and sharp fret wires.Put it in its case for 4 months ,took her out plugged her in ,Totaly unplayable, Worked on it for about 2 hours and took it in to my local music store.Traded it in at a 200.00 loss to get rid of it. He will be selling it on evil bay.He knows its history. Not only will I never buy another Tobias Growler but not another Gibson or Epiphone anything again. I have 20 guitars and basses no problems with anything other than this one and an Epiphone Hummingbird Artist 6 string that is going back tomorrow.I loved the tones on the Growler ., Everything else was very good. But I can see no reason to play a terrible neck when even most Chineese builders make better necks. My experiance.Never expressed on TB before.You asked.IMHO.

[pb9717]

I've owned 3 growler 5's . The first sounded incredible, but the neck went bad. I was able to trade it away at GC, because they thought it was a great bas because it was a US made Tobias. Turned out they could never move it, but not my problem. The 2nd one I currently own and have used for the past 2 years. Got it from another TBer ridiculously cheap because it was pretty beat up cosmetically, and had a ground hum. The truss rod cover had a section cracked off and the body showed no less than three finishes, (black, over trans blue, over natural) I refinished it in a gold faux marble finish and fixed the ground hum. It's now the most incredible bass. Plays fantastically, no neck issues, and those electronics. The 2 switch models are incredible sounding wi the 18V dual 3band preamp, and that quad coil pickup. Some of the most outstanding electronics ever designed. Bill Bartolini said the pickup was so difficult to make that he wouldn't produce them ever again. Well, I came across another one in that same GC and grabbed it.l and it sounds as good if not better than my refinished one. ( I think the open natural finish makes the sound even better, but we' ll see when I A/B the two of em.

My point is....yes, there were definitely quality issues with the Gibson made growlers. After michael left Gibson, BUT....by now the bad ones are pretty much determined due to the amount of time that has passed since production, so they've pretty much been weeded out, and when you do find a soundly built one, grab it, because they don't make em anymore, and the new ones with the 5 knobs are not the same animal in any manner. Plus, getting a US made EARLY growler, at less than $650 bucks, is a fantastic value.

[darkstorm]

All the gibson tobias basses I examined had horrible fretwork. Frets sticking out sides of fretboard. Overall build qaulity was also below that of any pregibson Tobias.