Why "Fender" sound on a boutique bass?

[lowphatbass]

I own Fenders and use them fairly often. I also play a Dingwall, it's an old one and not terribly fancy. I don't know if you would consider it "boutique" but it helps to make my point.

My Dingwall dials-in a great P-bass tone, listening back to recording projects it's not always as obvious as you would think which bass I used on a specific track. In addition to being a monster P-bass(IMO) I have 5 strings, 24 frets and the additional tone pallet of a second pickup and a 18V preamp. There's also the fact that the Dingwall is built tough and every bit as bullet proof as my P-basses(believe it!).

Most of my gigs cover a lot of different material, for me a bass that can deliver the "Fender" signiture is really important, it's very central to what I do. I feel I compromise very little in terms of tone with the Dingwall going from Ray Charles to Rhianna or from Marvin Gaye to Jill Scott. I sometimes just bring a P-bass and play it all night, it's bound to hit some home-runs, but you might strike-out on a few as well. All in all I really like to switch it up a bit and make sure I'm enjoying myself and doing my job well.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by KJung

Since I'm a 5 stringer, that doesn't seem to be an option. I think the custom shop focuses on reproducing classic Fender's, which are all 4's.

I will say, that Pino P bass wass simply stunning!

+1 also that the Custom Shop stuff might hold up a bit better than 'non Fender Fender's

That came as news to me so I checked... they offer five string Jazzes on their quote sheet. IIRC they made Tye Zamora's "nothing in common with a Fender bass" six too so I'd guess if you'll pay for it, they might build it.


http://support.fendercs.com/download...Guide%20II.pdf

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

That came as news to me so I checked... they offer five string Jazzes on their quote sheet. IIRC they made Tye Zamora's "nothing in common with a Fender bass" six too so I'd guess if you'll pay for it, they might build it.


http://support.fendercs.com/download...Guide%20II.pdf

I did not know that. Never saw one or even heard about one. Seems like most of the guys interested in Custom Shop Fenders are interested in getting as close to the 'old stuff' as they can. Nothing wrong with that.

That being said, I'm set! I will again say that the Custom Shop basses, while at the high end of 'boutique' bolt-on pricing, are definitely first rate.

[D.M.N.]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Cute. Jump on the bandwagon. You're 20. I've been playing Fenders since the mid 70's. In my experience, all needed setups and tweaking to get to playing properly. Have yet to find one at Boutique quality or playability. Having said that, my main 4 string is a 2006 US Fender Jazz which was worked on by a pro luthier/tech. Electronics were garbage. Installed a full Bartolini package and it thumps like a mutha now! Great playing bass but still not boutique quality. Like my experience or not but it is MY experience.

Yeah, I'll jump on the band wagon of not posting ridiculously generalized statements. And yeah, pull the "I'm older and wiser" thing, that's always fun and not condescending.


For my part, I'll say this: I've played good Fenders, I've played great Fenders, and I've played pi$$-poor excuses for instruments labeled as Fenders. Some of the worst were revered 60s & 70s models, and they plain stunk. In my experience, the past few years of production have been stellar for production line instruments, especially the AVRI series (which might be my favorite basses out there quality vs cost). For you to make the blanket statement that "stock Fenders are not great playing instruments out the box" is just silly. There are lemons, no one's saying there aren't. But they are not all like that. The Jazz bass I bought this summer was one of the best playing instruments I've ever picked up, easily on CS level QC wise, and for me, better than the Lull I played recently (which is not to say I'm knocking Lulls, it too was a beautiful instrument). To me, it seems like Fenders just aren't your thing, and that's cool, but it also sounds like you aren't trying to go for "Fender" tone if you're putting in Barts. I put different pickups in my Jazz too, because I'm not a huge fan of their stock tone, and far prefer the new setup. But please, don't disrespect me based on my age because I called you out for making a ludicrous generalization in what comes across as a rather bellicose post lacking any mention of whether it was based on your personal experience or if it was some sort of cosmic law you were handing down to us as an indisputable fact.


As for the actual topic this thread is discussing, everyone's answers seem to be pretty spot on regarding wanting the "Fender" sound but with options not offered by Fender.

[hdracer]

Originally Posted by KJung

Since I'm a 5 stringer, that doesn't seem to be an option. I think the custom shop focuses on reproducing classic Fender's, which are all 4's.

I will say, that Pino P bass wass simply stunning!

+1 also that the Custom Shop stuff might hold up a bit better than 'non Fender Fender's

You can get Custom Shop Jazz 5's
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JBassCS5MCBT/

[SoVeryTired]

Originally Posted by Rockbassist4

I think there are some people like the idea of having a boutique bass just because they want to be different or are trying to impress other players. If you want a bass that sounds like a Fender, buy a Fender. If you want one that sounds like an Alembic, buy an Alembic, etc.

Or you could actually read the thread and get some sensible answers.

Believe me, none of the other bass players I know would be impressed by a boutique Fender-sounding bass as they'd never have heard the name.

[tradernick]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Because stock Fenders are not great playing instruments out the box. Spotty QC, little to zero setup and attention to detail is nil unless it's Custom Shop.

That's a generalization but there's a lot of truth in it.

1. Someone here said it's because of 'perceived' quality variation from bass to bass with Fender. It's not a perception. There's very little consistency from instrument to instrument, even in the American lines.

2. Another reason is the availability of customization, as was mentioned.

3. 5 string guys have always had better choices among the boutique makers. Don't really know where Fender stands atm.

I played the same Jazz bass for 20+ years. I could never find another one that matched it, and believe it or not, it's an '80s Foto flame. I switched to a Sadowsky NYC Will Lee (Jazz copy), and now when I plug the Jazz in with the same amp settings, I just can't believe the difference. I can't really go back; the next step would be to try to mod the Jazz bass in some way. In addition, the Sad weighs 7.xx pounds and on a jobbing gig, at my age, that's worth a hell of a lot.

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Custom Shop ARE boutique. And you should see the Fenders I've been seeing... the polar opposite of what you described.

This...


- georgestrings

[georgestrings]

Originally Posted by tradernick

That's a generalization but there's a lot of truth in it.

1. Someone here said it's because of 'perceived' quality variation from bass to bass with Fender. It's not a perception. There's very little consistency from instrument to instrument, even in the American lines.

Disagree - between you and the guy you quoted, I have to wonder if either of you have checked out any new Fenders in the last 5 years???


- georgestrings

[Turxile]

Sadowsky metrolines (MIJ) cost 1.5 times the Fender American Deluxe...
The NYCs are 3000+.
Surely they should be compared to Fender Custom Shop, rather than the mass production series...

Anyway, everyone should play what they like, bass choice is very much personal preference...

[KJung]

Originally Posted by hdracer

You can get Custom Shop Jazz 5's
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/JBassCS5MCBT/

Per my above post, no interest in that!

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by D.M.N.

Yeah, I'll jump on the band wagon of not posting ridiculously generalized statements. And yeah, pull the "I'm older and wiser" thing, that's always fun and not condescending.

For my part, I'll say this: I've played good Fenders, I've played great Fenders, and I've played pi$$-poor excuses for instruments labeled as Fenders. Some of the worst were revered 60s & 70s models, and they plain stunk. In my experience, the past few years of production have been stellar for production line instruments, especially the AVRI series (which might be my favorite basses out there quality vs cost). For you to make the blanket statement that "stock Fenders are not great playing instruments out the box" is just silly. There are lemons, no one's saying there aren't. But they are not all like that. The Jazz bass I bought this summer was one of the best playing instruments I've ever picked up, easily on CS level QC wise, and for me, better than the Lull I played recently (which is not to say I'm knocking Lulls, it too was a beautiful instrument). To me, it seems like Fenders just aren't your thing, and that's cool, but it also sounds like you aren't trying to go for "Fender" tone if you're putting in Barts. I put different pickups in my Jazz too, because I'm not a huge fan of their stock tone, and far prefer the new setup. But please, don't disrespect me based on my age because I called you out for making a ludicrous generalization in what comes across as a rather bellicose post lacking any mention of whether it was based on your personal experience or if it was some sort of cosmic law you were handing down to us as an indisputable fact.

As for the actual topic this thread is discussing, everyone's answers seem to be pretty spot on regarding wanting the "Fender" sound but with options not offered by Fender.

Generally agree... except I've gotten a killer Fender sound with Bartolini single coils and split dual coils. Put them in whatever J or P position you're after and they don't exactly hurt your chances of achieving that sound. I own several examples and older and newer Fenders.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by tradernick

That's a generalization but there's a lot of truth in it.

1. Someone here said it's because of 'perceived' quality variation from bass to bass with Fender. It's not a perception. There's very little consistency from instrument to instrument, even in the American lines.

2. Another reason is the availability of customization, as was mentioned.

3. 5 string guys have always had better choices among the boutique makers. Don't really know where Fender stands atm.

I played the same Jazz bass for 20+ years. I could never find another one that matched it, and believe it or not, it's an '80s Foto flame. I switched to a Sadowsky NYC Will Lee (Jazz copy), and now when I plug the Jazz in with the same amp settings, I just can't believe the difference. I can't really go back; the next step would be to try to mod the Jazz bass in some way. In addition, the Sad weighs 7.xx pounds and on a jobbing gig, at my age, that's worth a hell of a lot.

Since they're different basses I wouldn't expect equality with the same amp settings. Are you running the Sadowsky passive? Just curious.

Good fives tend to be harder to build or find than fours IME. That's where boutiques really got their foot in the door.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Disagree - between you and the guy you quoted, I have to wonder if either of you have checked out any new Fenders in the last 5 years???

- georgestrings

Very legit question. I just haven't seen what these guys have said and not for lack of exposure, quite the opposite. And I've lost track off how many Fenders from Squiers up that I've done basic tweaks to that played great afterwards.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Cute. Jump on the bandwagon. You're 20. I've been playing Fenders since the mid 70's. In my experience, all needed setups and tweaking to get to playing properly. Have yet to find one at Boutique quality or playability. Having said that, my main 4 string is a 2006 US Fender Jazz which was worked on by a pro luthier/tech. Electronics were garbage. Installed a full Bartolini package and it thumps like a mutha now! Great playing bass but still not boutique quality. Like my experience or not but it is MY experience.

And that's all it is, your experience. You are one person. Don't try and act like your experience is the only one that matters. It isn't.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Good fives tend to be harder to build or find than fours IME. That's where boutiques really got their foot in the door.

+1 I always have posted that if I was played a 4 string, I'd just spend a few months at Guiter Center playing as many Fender and Squire basses I could until I found one I dug, get a good professional set-up, and there you go!

That being said, one of the things that got me interested in playing a passive P was the introduction a while back of that passive American Standard 5 String P by Fender (I think that was the name... classic P build, but with a more hefty bridge, etc. VERY, very nice instrument. I ended up going with a Nordy, but could have played that Fender happily.

Happy Thanksgiving Brad... nice to see you still on the site every once in a while.

[WoodyG3]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Generally agree... except I've gotten a killer Fender sound with Bartolini single coils and split dual coils. Put them in whatever J or P position you're after and they don't exactly hurt your chances of achieving that sound. I own several examples and older and newer Fenders.

Brad, were these active or passive basses? I'm asking because I've never been able to get what I thought was a good "Fender" tone with Barts in a passive bass. For whatever reason, I've never had Bart J pickups in an active bass, though.

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by C.Linton

And that's all it is, your experience. You are one person. Don't try and act like your experience is the only one that matters. It isn't.

Ok...I did say in my experience, did I not? Where in my post did I say my opinion was the only one that mattered! That's the problem with many of you all here. You read into things that are not there and pick fights! Then at the same time discount my theory by saying the opposite as if your opinions are the only ones that count! See how that works. Woulda been easier to just say..."my experience is different"! But no! Never fails!

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by georgestrings

Disagree - between you and the guy you quoted, I have to wonder if either of you have checked out any new Fenders in the last 5 years???


- georgestrings

If you mean me...yes I have. They all needed setups and had many flaws. Still better than basses produced in years past but definitely not boutique quality. I found none that I could buy and go straight to a gig and play. In my experience, of course.

[johng999]

My Fender Custom Shop 64Jazz is the best bass I've ever played, for what I do. And my Fender American Deluxe 5 has the active features that some want. For the past 43 years Fenders have worked for me. I play a Jazz for performances and Precision in the studio. Always have. When I started playing there really weren't to many alternatives. I have played all of the others, and almost bought a Sadowsky, but in the end, for me, I find Fenders to be a great value and give me (and more important, my band) the sound I want.