Why "Fender" sound on a boutique bass?

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by KJung

+1 I always have posted that if I was played a 4 string, I'd just spend a few months at Guiter Center playing as many Fender and Squire basses I could until I found one I dug, get a good professional set-up, and there you go!

That being said, one of the things that got me interested in playing a passive P was the introduction a while back of that passive American Standard 5 String P by Fender (I think that was the name... classic P build, but with a more hefty bridge, etc. VERY, very nice instrument. I ended up going with a Nordy, but could have played that Fender happily.

Happy Thanksgiving Brad... nice to see you still on the site every once in a while.

I'm still here, just trying to pick better conversations to be in.


BTW I just found the first P bass I've really dug in a long time. It would likely make Lucas V's head expload.


Happy Thanksgiving, Ken.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by DWBass

+1 Right! And I did say 'out the box'. Never said they could not be worked on and fine tuned to be good players!

I can understand out of the box being important if you can't do a basic setup. If you can... I don't get it. Seriously. I expect to have to do a setup on most basses I buy because of how I like them setup. Others look at it like it's a flaw. Like dead strings.


One of these days I'm going to try to get together with someone who sees a non-stop stream of flaws with Fenders and have them point them out to me (I'll bring my good reading glasses). More than likely one of us will learn something.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by KJung

I'll just post up that the few times I played a Dingwall, the fret fan was suprisingly a zero issue. The scale length difference did not bother me, but I have zero issue going from 34" to 35", so am not sensitive to that.

What drove me NUTS, and why I would never personally purchase one of these (in addition to the fact that my 34' scale 5 strings sound magnificent down low... nothing to fix for me), is that the slanted bridge results in a very different right hand technique, especially for those like me who like to dig in close to the bridge. I guess you sould get use to varying your right hand plucking position to keep your pluck roughly the same distance from the bridge, but that was very akward for me. For others, probably not an issue.

The RH thing bugged me too. Great basses though.

I can't say I heard an improvement over the B strings I already have so like you... not broken, no fix needed.

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

As previously mentioned, the fanned fret system takes nothing to adjust to unless you make lots of doublestops/chords and harmonics, you have to move the harmonics with the fan. It can take some adjustments depending on your playing style, but it is certainly nothing to be intimidated by.

And back on the original topic, for all of you listing stuff Fender won't do, you are all wrong. Fender will do ANYTHING you want them to do, I would imagine they would even do a fanned fret system if you are willing to pay for it. (I don't know how the license works, Dingwall has to license the system from NOVAX) Fender customer shop has no spending limit other than yours though as well, as much as they will do a 24 fret, neck thru, whatever top you want P bass, it could easily cost over $10,000.

And yeah as somebody else said, you cannot compare a Sadowsky NYC @ $3000 to a stock MIA Fender @ 1200, that is like saying I test drove a Fiat and it just didn't hold up to any Porsche's I drove... well no duh.

Licensing brings up an interesting question... does anyone building with fanned frets need to contact Novax?

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by hdracer

Oh, sorry Ken I must have missed that post. I was just saying that there are CS 5'ers.

I saw that you mentioned that you liked the Pino CS bass and the P5's that you played. I felt the same way so I built my own. I really wanted a Sadowsky but I just could not swing the cash for it. I had it painted in vintage nitro Fiesta Red and assembled it with the utmost detail. Out of the box the neck pocket was tight. The fret's were almost perfect with only two needing the slightest dressing to bring the whole fretboard perfectly level. The nut was good stock but I did file two of the slots to bring them all perfectly the way I like it. With very little work and a lot of attention to detail this off the shelf Fender plays as good as the big boys.
A very good friend of mine just got a Sadowsky. We have spent a lot of time swapping basses and loving each others bass. He loves the way my Fender plays and I like his. My P5 weighs 8 ozs more then his Sadowsky. Every time he hands my bass back to me he says "man I love this bass" and I say the same about his. I always have to throw in "did I tell you I have $1300 in this bass?" I seem to always get a STFU in response.

Sweet.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Licensing brings up an interesting question... does anyone building with fanned frets need to contact Novax?

Not any more. I think the licensing expired about 4 years ago.

[DiabolusInMusic]

Originally Posted by spade2you

Not any more. I think the licensing expired about 4 years ago.

Are you sure about that?

My ABZ born Jan 1/2011 still states that fanned fret system is licensed from Novax right on the bass, including patent #, and I am pretty sure they all still do.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Licensing brings up an interesting question... does anyone building with fanned frets need to contact Novax?

I'm not sure, but I've noticed Rondomusic has a couple of fanned fret instruments on their website. I noticed at least two 9-string guitars and one five string bass with fanned frets, Douglases I think.

[spade2you]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Are you sure about that?

My ABZ born Jan 1/2011 still states that fanned fret system is licensed from Novax right on the bass, including patent #, and I am pretty sure they all still do.

This was what Conklin told me several years back.

[KJung]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Sweet.

+1 That P looks amazing. I really did love the whole look and feel of that Pino model, and this one in a 5 configuration looks great. And,I greatly prefer the 'no artificial beating up' thing!. This one does a good job of copping that 'Pino' vibe. Dig it!

[lowphatbass]

Originally Posted by DiabolusInMusic

Are you sure about that?

My ABZ born Jan 1/2011 still states that fanned fret system is licensed from Novax right on the bass, including patent #, and I am pretty sure they all still do.

I'm not sure but I think the licensing agreement that Dingwall has with Novax may be "grandfathered in", or possible a courtesy Dingwall extends to Novax. Somebody here wll know I'm sure.
FWIW, fanned fretted instrments have been around for a very long time. The math that Dingwall uses is not the same as Novax's patent either. When Dingwall was initially tweaking the system he built a fretless prototype with an adjustable bridge and nut and made adjustments to optimize string tension within reasonable string lengths and went from there.

To answer the question about going back and forth, the previous statements seem pretty spot on. In regards to the the right hand technique I guess I just angle my arm a few degrees in to match the bridge angle a little bit..it's hard to say because I've been doing it for 18+ years now.

Sorry to be off topic again...

[DWBass]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

I can understand out of the box being important if you can't do a basic setup. If you can... I don't get it. Seriously. I expect to have to do a setup on most basses I buy because of how I like them setup. Others look at it like it's a flaw. Like dead strings.


One of these days I'm going to try to get together with someone who sees a non-stop stream of flaws with Fenders and have them point them out to me (I'll bring my good reading glasses). More than likely one of us will learn something.

When I say flaws, I'm speaking in comparison to boutique basses and to the OP question. And I was agreeing with you. My quote came out wrong. Wasn't directed at you.

[WoodyG3]

Originally Posted by Brad Johnson

Active and active bass run in passive mode. I have a Warmoth 4 string Jazz that nails it either way. The trick for me was turning my amp up (over where I'd have it for an active bass)... which I had to do with my 68 and 78 Fender Jazzes anyway.


I also set my Bart pickups close to the strings. Very close in fact.

Good info. Thanks!

[Brad Johnson]

Originally Posted by DWBass

When I say flaws, I'm speaking in comparison to boutique basses and to the OP question. And I was agreeing with you. My quote came out wrong. Wasn't directed at you.

Yeah, I know. The thing is, the idea that boutiques will automatically have less flaws than a production piece hasn't been my experience. Granted, I probably check out more boutique pieces than most. And the constant talk about Fender flaws hasn't been my experience either and I touch a lot of them too.

People have all sorts of ideas of what constitutes a flaw. Some feel a setup they don't like is a flaw. Some think that dead strings on a display piece is a flaw. Some people think neck pockets need to be tight, the tighter the better. Why? Some actually think it makes a sonic difference.

If you're just going to look at a bass and baby it, I guess I can see the appeal of having an absolutely flawless bass. If you're going to freak out at the first blemish on a gig, okay. Otherwise... get a bass that plays great and enjoy.

[DWBass]

Let me pose the question a different way............

What do boutique jazz bass brands have that a Fender doesn't? And why would a Fender not suffice?



By the way, I love my 'flawed' Fender Jazz! In generalities, my use of the word 'flawed' may be the wrong word to choose. But in general, I find nuts cut incorrectly, uneven frets, fret sprout, high action, neck not adjusted properly, dead spots. No, not all items on every bass but always something.

[JimmyM]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Let me pose the question a different way............

What do boutique jazz bass brands have that a Fender doesn't? And why would a Fender not suffice?

If you ask me, not much. However, I will say this...the absolute lightest and one of the best playing Jazz basses I ever played was an Alleva Coppolo 5 that belongs to a buddy of mine who plays with Joey Dee sometimes. So I'm not against boutique Fender copies by any means.

[Baird6869]

Originally Posted by JimmyM

If you ask me, not much. However, I will say this...the absolute lightest and one of the best playing Jazz basses I ever played was an Alleva Coppolo 5 that belongs to a buddy of mine who plays with Joey Dee sometimes. So I'm not against boutique Fender copies by any means.

I have a couple of local friends that are fanatical about AC basses. They are nice IMO, but not the be all and end all and at $4000-6000, they are pricy. These two guys swear that the AC basses sound more like a pre-CBS jazz bass than a pre-CBS jazz does... As long as that makes sense to them.

To each their own, I guess.

I will say that they are really light and the fit/quality is amazing.

[affprod]

It's all personal I guess, but all but two of my basses are Fenders. They have their own "boutique models" like the Philip Kubiki or Stu Hamm with every possible active/passive possibility. But honestly, all I need is a P and a J.

[C.Linton]

Originally Posted by DWBass

Let me pose the question a different way............

What do boutique jazz bass brands have that a Fender doesn't? And why would a Fender not suffice?



By the way, I love my 'flawed' Fender Jazz! In generalities, my use of the word 'flawed' may be the wrong word to choose. But in general, I find nuts cut incorrectly, uneven frets, fret sprout, high action, neck not adjusted properly, dead spots. No, not all items on every bass but always something.

I found none of that on my MIA '08 Jazz. I have no issues whatsoever. I guess I got lucky

[drTSTingray]

Does this forum endorse Fender guitars - they appear in every thread!!!