Wishbass Club Part 11 - 'When you Wish upon a Mwaaah!'

[jbybj]

Originally Posted by 49sfine

Close-up #12 position markers, the maple's grain and the PH veneer. Radius is 16" ...

That is a beefy, and beautiful fingerboard. Are you going to finish the board? Poly, Epoxy? Doesn't maple usually get a hard coat of something?

[MARCOvdBoogert]

gee wizz...
Started to design my hollowbody wishnevsky style.
Now I can't choose which one is best. Got 4 types now. The three on the pic and a hybrid of those.


AbFaB fingerboard! I really like the maple purpleheart combination! Never thought about purpleheart markers also? Or cutting the side of the FB also and fill that with veneer also?

[Rip Topaz]

Originally Posted by 49sfine

Thanks guys. I do have some experience with the piezo units, having a K&K in the Banana bass (no pre-amp yet) and a Schaller unit (w/built-in pre-amp) to go into the Mando bass. BTW, the Mando bass is finished and curing upstairs as we speak. Soon we will find out what the Schaller p-up is really like! Still, there is no magnetic p-up to combo up with either of these so I have no direct experience with that set-up. Duly noted, though ...

While I'm at it here, a Lobe 1438 update might be fun. I ended up NOT using the yellowheart FB I so carefully veneered, shaped and prepped after deciding it was just too short, visually. I can't explain why I didn't figure it out sooner! Anyway, I had a nice piece of hard maple a friend had given me so I thickness planed it and then set it up to be slotted and veneered. I used purpleheart for the fret lines and it came out awesome. I also decided to leave this FB a bit thicker to add some structural strength to the neck block itself. (I measured more relief on this one when it was strung up than I like.) Anyway, the FB is all done, installed, shaped and smoothed and it feels great! I can't wait to hear what it sounds like. I also finished shaping and smoothing the neck profile last night and what a difference that made - whoa. Here's what it all looked like at the time ...


Lines layed out and being slotted with my homemade fence ...

Slots veneered with PH, dry fitted and waiting to be glued in. I went with an asymetrical end cut this time, just to do something different ...

Leveled and radiused FB being glued/clamped to the neck block (more of this later too) ...

Copper side markers going in - this is house (110) wiring actually ...

Bigger copper (220) markers going in to fill the holes for the locater dowels I used during the glue up - positions 3 and 12 only ...

Close-up #12 position markers, the maple's grain and the PH veneer. Radius is 16" ...

49, this looks GREAT!!
Any concern about the copper wiring oxidizing and turning green??

[bassbenj]

Originally Posted by Rip Topaz

49, this looks GREAT!!
Any concern about the copper wiring oxidizing and turning green??

Yes, that would be my comment too. I've got a fretless Alembic Epic that came with brass markers much like your copper ones. Over the years even though they are under the finish, they turned dark and are a major pain to see on a dark stage. I'm thinking copper would do the same thing. GOLD is the answer...Heh!

I'm still kicking myself for not getting the LED markers installed when I bought it. So now I'm considering one of those stick-on LED strips to solve the dark marker problem.

And one more comment. On my two SX basses that I converted to fretless with new ebony fingerboards, I went with large supersized dots on the side (they aren't lined). I drilled holes and filled them with white epoxy. The dots are almost as large as the fingerboard thickness. This worked out wonderfully! It just takes a glance to get your bearings on the board. The exact opposite of the dark brass Alembic markers. I love the large markers. And Oh, I did make the markers past the octave normal diameter.

Yeah, I know you're done now, but just something to think about next time.

[49sfine]

JBY; My thought on the maple FB is to treat it like any other board and just oil it. Your comment has got me wondering though! Guess we'll have to see. Maybe coating maple is more about discoloration with string wear and not about scratching it - hmmm ... On the thickness increase, I decided to try using thicker FBs after spending time looking over the MalinoskyArtGuitar.com. site - check it out, he makes some awfully funky stuff!

RIP; On the oxidation issue, it won't happen I don't think on the side markers because they will be sealed with Tru-Oil. I did Fantasy #951 this way and so far so good (9 months + now). On the top markers, this is my first use of copper in this location so I will keep an eye out and see what happens. (It may demand a drop of lacquer on those in the future). Thanks for bringing it up. It never ceases to surprise me at all the things you DON'T think of when doing this stuff, especially the first time.

Speaking of first times - this FB is kind of a break-thru for me in that I completely fabbed this up from scratch. It was never a FB or even slated to be a FB prior to my working on it - just a maple board a friend gave me, hoping I might use it in some way. Now that I know I can create my own custom FB's, it really is a great feeling! I think this is what I love about Wishbasses more than anything - it's like going to school really. On my own, I doubt I would just purpose to make a FB, just to learn how. The Wishbass process though, gives me the inspiration and motivation to go places I would not otherwise - yay!

BASSBENJ; You're right, I am done with this one and it is what it is. I do appreciate the feedback though and will keep it all in mind next time around. (I do seem to have a penchant for using stuff that is already laying around the shop - not always a good thing.) Real world/player experiences are always needed to find realistic and appropriate solutions to things like this ...

Thanks for all the feedback ...

Oh, I'll have a Nemo #549 update soon - I pulled the fret board off last night and found some unwelcome surprises! (Sigh ...) I'm going to be looking for some more feedback from you guys too.

[jandscotten]

Okay, Some before and after pictures of the chalice.








Okay, I got to the point where I need to smooth/sand, but my dremel isn't going to work so I'll hand sand it. BUT.....BUT...as I looked at it I really like the pebble look the dremel left.

So question for opinion: I plan to stain the chalice part with a dark cherry, leave the rest of the bass, including the St. A's cross, natural then lacquer the heck out of it to a high gloss (except I'll just oil the purple heart fretboard). Is there any reason, other than astetics that I can't leave the rough look to the chalice? Will it mess up the lacquer?

Also, to the neck. I've got to sounding like a really nice sitar...and still working it.

[MARCOvdBoogert]

May I be honest?
I don't understand the carving....

[jandscotten]

Originally Posted by MARCOvdBoogert

May I be honest?
I don't understand the carving....

Sorry, church symbol. This is a grad present for my D.Min.

[49sfine]

Originally Posted by jandscotten

So question for opinion: I plan to stain the chalice part with a dark cherry, leave the rest of the bass, including the St. A's cross, natural then lacquer the heck out of it to a high gloss (except I'll just oil the purple heart fretboard). Is there any reason, other than asthetics that I can't leave the rough look to the chalice? Will it mess up the lacquer?

Based on your photos, I like the look of the rougher texture inside the chalice outline. Putting a gloss lacquer on it though may produce a splotchy looking finish there. I would experiment with a trial piece first to test out your expectations so you can actually see what the results would be like. It shouldn't be too hard or to take too much work to carve up (doesn't have to be the chalice, just a textured area) a scrap board and stain and finish it first, before committing to your actual bass. That's how I'd handle it anyway. You could also try using a satin sheen for the inside of the chalice versus gloss for the body - something like that. Or, stain and just oil the chalice versus sealing with lacquer to keep the finish muted and matte, which would enhance the textured look, IMO.

BTW, the chalice symbol is way kool. I just would have made it a lot smaller and put it up (parallel) next to the neck stringers near #15 position or so. At any rate, have fun with it and congrats on your achievement - very, very commendable!

[MARCOvdBoogert]

I personally would make a template and use a fine routerbit. Very sharp edges and a smooth surface would really make this piece.

[49sfine]

Lobe #1438 Update: She's all ready for finish! After final fine sanding, I like to apply a coat of clear, natural stain to the entire bass which darkens it up only as much as the finish would anyway, but helps even out the tones. It also helps me identify small scratches or file marks I may have missed during final inspection. Puts a nice matte finish on the bass too, which always makes me wonder if I should just oil them instead of putting Tru-Oil on - to date, I haven't succumbed to that temptation that yet! Knot hole is all epoxied up, leveled off & ready for finish.







I'm really curious about how she will sound now with the thick maple FB. The neck on this one feels SO good now. Nut and bridge out of wenge. BTW, the walut neck stringers are left-over pieces from the walnut he bought to complete my Hyper bass blank (#1398a) ...

[jandscotten]

So, what oil would you use, if not Tru-oil? I can't get Tru-oil up here but then again we'll be heading back south probably this summer so I may finish all the sanding, staining, etc. and just wait. I'm starting to second guess using the lacquer and going with my first instinct which was to tru-oil the whole thing.

[jandscotten]

Originally Posted by 49sfine

BTW, the chalice symbol is way kool. I just would have made it a lot smaller and put it up (parallel) next to the neck stringers near #15 position or so. At any rate, have fun with it and congrats on your achievement - very, very commendable!

I have to say I'd agree with you, BUT water under the bridge and I like it there. (Steve did the initial outline so I didn't really have a choice after I got it. Live and Learn! )

[jumbodbassman]

Originally Posted by MARCOvdBoogert

gee wizz...
Started to design my hollowbody wishnevsky style.
Now I can't choose which one is best. Got 4 types now. The three on the pic and a hybrid of those.


AbFaB fingerboard! I really like the maple purpleheart combination! Never thought about purpleheart markers also? Or cutting the side of the FB also and fill that with veneer also?

very similar to a viola i drew up and had Steve build for me. Always loved the Viola shaped basses, second to scrolls of course. Notice i offset the omegas to IMHO balance out the different body sides






here is another body i had built which i have not yet finished after about 8 years.. Can't seem to find a neck worthy of such a sweet looking body. shame on me...

[MARCOvdBoogert]

Gee Wizz, I really dig that body #wannahave #wannahave!!!!!!!

[49sfine]

Originally Posted by jandscotten

So, what oil would you use, if not Tru-oil? I can't get Tru-oil up here but then again we'll be heading back south probably this summer so I may finish all the sanding, staining, etc. and just wait. I'm starting to second guess using the lacquer and going with my first instinct which was to tru-oil the whole thing.

Well, when I mention oil, let's say for the FB, I mean an actual oil (like Danish oil, fingerboard oil, lemon oil, etc), that soaks into the wood rather than laying on top of the surface, like lacquer or Tru-Oil do. I consider them to be a sealer type of finish which remains on the surface of the wood rather than soaking into it and becoming part of it. Tru-Oil, in spite of it's name, is not an oil per se, but a top coat finish that will produce a nice shine and a measure of protection once it is fully cured. TR and RIP can probably describe it more accurately than I just did, but that's the general idea.

[49sfine]

Okay, I need some imput from you out there. I have to make some decisions about Nemo #549 now that I have gotten the fret board off and assessed some issues that were revealed as a result. As you may remember, #549 is a fretted Wishbass and I was hoping to keep that way. I ended up taking the fret board off not because I didn't like it or anything but due to how loose it was and how poor the condition of the frets were. Also, by replacing the FB, it would afford me a chance to lengthen the board and cover up the truss rod channel left showing above the p-up. After getting the FB off I found some splits in the neck that look like they occurred due to tightening of the truss rod. While they were apparently repaired competently some time ago, it makes me shudder to think about using that truss rod ever! So, what to do? Here are my options, as I see them and I would like your feedback, please. Got any other ideas?

1. Remove truss rod, fill channel and make the bass a fretless ...
2. Remove truss rod and retrofit a fibre carbon rod to add rigidity to the neck block and keep the bass fretted...
3. Remove truss rod and fill channel with a piece of purpleheart (or wenge) to add stiffness to the neck and keep the bass fretted ...
4. Remove truss rod and replace with a new one and hope repair would hold if new rod needed adjustment in the future, thus keeping it fretted ...
5. Retain existing truss rod assembly and just hope the repair will hold and keep the bass fretted ...
6. Cut off body wings and build a new neck assembly for it (drastic but do-able) ...
7. Cut off neck to receive a bolt-on type neck (again, drastic but do-able) ...

(My preference right now is option #3, followed by #2.)

I also noticed upon removing the FB that not much glue was used to attach it to the neck stringers - gluing up a new (& beefier) fret board correctly would definitely help the overall integrity of the neck block.

Here's some photos to show you what it looks like:


This shows the removed board next to the neck stringers - darker areas denote skimpy glue lines ...

Marker pen lines highlight the cracks starting at the headstock - 12" and 7" respectively ...

The longer crack on the G string side. Note headstock is capped on the bottom for added strength ...

Shorter crack on the E string side ...

Yellowheart fret board I am thinking about installing (after not using it for Lobe #1438) ...

Stripping off the old finish - very gooey indeed! It's since been level-sanded top and back ...

[MARCOvdBoogert]

though choice.
Personally I would chop the neck and install a bolt on new one. But in your multiple choice it's hard. Actually you don't have a clue why it's cracked? To much tension on the rod? Weak neck?
Maybe an adjustable rod is really needed here. One thing is sure for me. Make it fretless!!

[49sfine]

Originally Posted by MARCOvdBoogert

tough choice.
Personally I would chop the neck and install a bolt on new one. But in your multiple choice it's hard. Actually you don't have a clue why it's cracked? Too much tension on the rod? Weak neck?
Maybe an adjustable rod is really needed here. One thing is sure for me. Make it fretless!!

I don't think I even thought of chopping off the neck and doing a bolt-on! That is a possibility, for sure, although I have never cut a neck pocket (yet) so that makes me nervous. I suppose too, I could cut off the body wings like I did on the bass blanks and build a new neck block too - hmmmm. Actually, the idea I am most attracted to is installing the carbon fibre rod into the existing truss rod route, but that's just an idea at this point. Since this is an older Wishbass, I was hoping to keep it as original as possible and yet still make improvements. I really do want to get rid of the existing rod, if the truth be told - it's just so ugly. Still, I remain open to ideas.

In viewing the damage now that the board is off, it seems to me that this neck failed from being over-tightened using this truss rod (but I don't really know). The neck stringers are only walnut with one maple one in the center so it's not as tough as some of his are.

If I went fretless that would be a snap, but then I would have just another fretless Wish instead of a rarer fretted one - not out of the question, just not as interesting to me as keeping it fretted somehow. Plus, I seem to really enjoy coming up with repair solutions to things like this - and, for some reason I really, really like this bass so I am motivated to save it ...

Thanks for the ideas! BTW, I love your hollow body drawings. Can't wait to see what you are going to do with that!


Here's that nasty truss rod with the nut and washer off.

[MARCOvdBoogert]

Yeah, keeping it original as much as possible is a good way of thinking!
Because of the weak neck. Isn't it an idea to put 2 carbon rods in it. Just to be sure?
The current slot I would fill with a good piece of wood like wengé or something.