what effects do i make these sounds?

[wolffman]

Please check out these guys:

http://www.myspace.com/zejmusic

Woodpecker has the best example of what i'm referring to.

Really interested in making these types of sounds somewhat convincingly in a live setting with only a bass guitar and effects pedals. Been experimenting with a loop pedal placed in front of my ME50B and fiddling with effects like Square wave and flanger. I know there easier ways to do this with a synth, or soft synth.

[bigchiefbc]

The first two songs I listed to on that page had a fairly straight-forward synth oscillator with a filter following an LFO. On a budget, modes 3 and 6 on the Boss SYB-5/Behringer BSY-600 could get you reasonably close. There are much more expensive synth pedals that could also do it, but I figured I'd get this in there now.

[bigblondeafro87]

Only way to achieve a lot of the mechanical sounding filter sweeps is, well, to use a machine. Your best bet would be getting a MIDI setup and learn to program on a program like Ableton, Reason, or my favorite, Reaper.

[tekkentool]

Okay this is the steve's specialty right here.

blondefro's advice is a little too lax in exactly what you're going to need to do to get this sound. it's not a matter of simply downloading reaper, also don't bother with ableton, yes it's amazing but it's the most expensive DAW software ever. anyway.

My reccomendation is to download a DAW with a central piano roll interface, reaper uses one, but it's clumsy at best and not central. Then download some free synth VSTI and get going.

piano roll DAWS.

there are 2 really good options.

option #1. L.M.M.S.

LMMS was originally designed as pretty much a rip off of FL studio for linux. but then it got ported to windows. Very much like FL studio, interface is a little easier to work with that FL, but it's not as stable in hosting VST, nor is it as fully featured. it is however free, and comes with a ton of nice drum samples.

http://lmms.sourceforge.net/



Then there's the big one. FL studio. Over half the amatuer Electronic dance music production is done on this software. Like LMMS to a whole new level. supports outisde audio recording. etc.

you can download a demo for FL studio 9, it doesn't expire or run out of time. simply doesn't allow you to save.

http://flstudio.image-line.com/

img here. (huge image) http://createdigitalmusic.com/images...9/fl9giant.jpg

There are also other options if you're willing to divulge into a different interface, my current favourite is mad tracker. the interface needs to get used to (all in numbers) but it's solid and you can do all sorts of crazy amazing **** with the sequencer. However i don't really reccomend that one for a beginner.

After you download those. You'll need some synth's to work with. LMMS and FL both come with some basic analogue synthesizer emulations. but they are difficult to work with again unless you know what you're doing. so i've got some better VSTi softsynths you can download.


#1. synth1. possibly the greatest free software synthesizer ever made. period.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/214.html



#2. superwave p8. remember that sound from trance music in the late 90's? supersaw trance leads. this kills for those.

http://www.kvraudio.com/get/708.html



#3. drumatic 3. Synthesized drum machine. good for 80's 808 hip hop style drums. booming bass, snappy clap/tom.

http://e-phonic.com/plugins/drumatic3.php



These all have relatively understandable interface's and sound great. But hardware is ALWAYS better. and if you get the chance i would buy a hardware synthesizer. check around craigslist for some hardware synthesizers if you are committed enough. make sure it is either "analogue" or "analogue modelling"

If you have any questions about how to get the synths working or how to program them just send me a PM.

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by bigchiefbc

The first two songs I listed to on that page had a fairly straight-forward synth oscillator with a filter following an LFO. On a budget, modes 3 and 6 on the Boss SYB-5/Behringer BSY-600 could get you reasonably close. There are much more expensive synth pedals that could also do it, but I figured I'd get this in there now.

+1, the basic elements needed are octave+vco+modulated filter. The Octavius Squeezer is another all-in-one pedal that could be used for 'Woodpecker', by switching between presets programmed with the necessary waveforms and lfo's, and it has tap tempo which would be very useful in a live situation.

The ramp lfo in the beginning of the song would be easy to do with your foot, though the rest of it done manually with an exp pedal would be tedious though only limited by your dexterity and timing, but switching between expression and lfo could cover it, in theory.. but it gets tricky when you want to do this live, in time with a drummer or other beat and instruments. If the LFO controlling the filter isn't synched to anything then you'll be train-wrecking a lot.

The answer to the timing/modulation issue imo is the Moog MP-201 controlling the filter. With tap tempo and MIDI/CV you have the option of synching the LFO's to a MIDI clock, or tapping in the tempo if playing with a drummer, but the best way is definitely being MIDI synched (ie to a drum machine). The MP201 has 100 preset banks and 4 CV outs which can control filters, vco's, phasers, etc etc. In this application specifically, you could do a cover of 'Wookpecker' with one or two presets programmed into the MP201 controlling a lowpass filter.

My recommendations for someone trying to get a live rig started for the types of tones in the OP would be: (prices listed are current used market value)

*Octaver: OC-2, Arion MOC-1, DOD Octoplus ($25-50)
*VCO: Moog Freqbox ($200+, lots of 'cheap' ones on ebay lately)
*Filter: MoogLPF, Robot Factory Brain Freeze or Photron, or Electrix rack filter ($180-$420)

I use the OC-2 and find it necessary to put an EQ between the OC-2 and Freqbox, as it adds significantly in tracking. The Arion is an OC-2 clone and would need the same, but the DOD Octoplus does not need the added EQing for optimal Freqbox tracking. I also use a Pigtronix Philosophers tone compressor/sustainer at the beginning of my chain allowing long sustained notes for filtering and other effecting; indispensable in my rig now, but the other pieces of the puzzle mentioned above are higher up on the list of priorities for these sounds.

[tekkentool]

The best option here is not a synth pedal. it's a proper synth.


look for second hand microkorgs. they aren't worth the price they are new. but second hand yes.

You will get so much more. so much more it hurts.

[fightthepower]

Originally Posted by wolffman

Please check out these guys:

http://www.myspace.com/zejmusic

Woodpecker has the best example of what i'm referring to.

Really interested in making these types of sounds somewhat convincingly in a live setting with only a bass guitar and effects pedals. Been experimenting with a loop pedal placed in front of my ME50B and fiddling with effects like Square wave and flanger. I know there easier ways to do this with a synth, or soft synth.

Originally Posted by tekkentool

The best option here is not a synth pedal. it's a proper synth.


look for second hand microkorgs. they aren't worth the price they are new. but second hand yes.

You will get so much more. so much more it hurts.

I agree that a single synth pedal is not the best option(multiple pedals is), but ultimately best is subjective and relative to the OP's wants/needs, and the OP is looking to do it with a bass guitar. You can nail the tones that he listed, and specifically the Woodpecker song, with a bass guitar+effects. I can cop those tones and sound much better/fatter with my bass rig that with my Microkorg, imo. I could do it with the same gear, but using my MIDI controller in place of my bass(mp201 has the midi/cv capability)... but where's the fun in that! A lot more work involved, and significantly more expensive, but I enjoy playing bass and synthesis and have found a way to effectively combine the two (as have others), and this seems to be more in line with the OP's request, assuming its not cost-prohibitive.

[tekkentool]

But he can also do way more than just nail rez bass with a proper synth.

GK-3b plus (second hand) microkorg then? 4 note polyphony anyone?


i know it's **** ugly.

[wolffman]

Thanks for the information, i guess there are a lot of different ways to go about this.

Im in a 3 piece band guitar, drums, and of course bass. we are doing a livetronica jams. think lotus, the new deal, the disco biscuits, and pnuma trio. We are currently lazily looking for a synth and key board player. in the mean time the guys want to split a synth. i assume it will probablly be utilized more for lead lines.

id rather take up more sonic space as a bass player and let a synth player do there job. also fight the power said it

Originally Posted by fightthepower

but where's the fun in that! A lot more work involved, and significantly more expensive, but I enjoy playing bass and synthesis and have found a way to effectively combine the two (as have others), and this seems to be more in line with the OP's request, assuming its not cost-prohibitive.

The drummer has a drum pad capable of triggering loops, which could be utilized way more considering hes currently only using it for sound effects.

Even though thats how i feel the guys still might coerce me into getting a synth.

BTW ZEJ does live dubstep, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKpnyKeMd9c

I know in the beginning of the video he is using electronics to make noise but at the end of the video is a bass and some effects... any idea what hes using here?

[bigblondeafro87]

^^^ I didn't watch the video yet, but have you seen STS9 live? Their bass player switches being synth hits/ synth basslines and playing the bass pretty effectively.

A lot of the synth sound bass players are using in the livetronica scene is, as fightthepower said, 1- Moog LPF + expressional(essential as far as i'm concerned), 2-Boss OC-2 (or another synthy octaver), and 3-A waveform pedal (such as the Freqbox or a fuzz like the Wooly Mammoth).

Beyond that, it starts getting into personal needs and tastes. Some people like pedals for modulation like phaser, etc. Also pretty popular is a wet sounding envelope filter and a delay of some sort (especially in Lotus).

If you want the LFO sound to be useful with a live band, your gonna have to get into MIDI and sync it up to electronic drums or something.


BTW- Good taste in music I listen to a lot of the same bands..


EDIT: In the video the bass player is using an envelope filter and something else that I can't quite figure out...

[wolffman]

What do you mean synth hits?

Yeah i guess we might have to get into synth work.

Shouldnt i just leave that up to a keys/synth player though? I've been a bass player for 10 years and never even played a synth, although im sure i could learn. Or am i using a synth in place of the bass and a keys player might use the same "tool" a synth for a different role in the band?

as for sts9- love em, there are so many other livetronica acts that are good. The Malah & Telepath are 2 others i cant seem to get enough of. Eoto is sweet too. TND takes the cake for me.

Im from the philly area too. If you wanna get an idea as to what im currently playing. http://www.myspace.com/somataband a pretty bad live recording of our first show... fatty lumkin, tapestry, and sweet dee are the better tracks on there imo. Its a new project and we have a long way to go but will give you an idea of our starting point

[wolffman]

Originally Posted by tekkentool

But he can also do way more than just nail rez bass with a proper synth.

GK-3b plus (second hand) microkorg then? 4 note polyphony anyone?


i know it's **** ugly.

the gk-3b is only a pickup/controller right? i would need something else too?

[bigblondeafro87]

By synth hits I mean like in the song 'Instantly' ( ) the hits he makes at the beginning of specific section. I guess you could describe it as a 'bass drop' in a sense, but he'll hit a note on the synth to start the section and then play the bass line on his bass.

Did you happen to catch STS9 at the E-Factory the other week? I was there and watched intently what the bassist was doing. A synth is capable of some crushing lows that a bass just can't make...

It is possible to use a synth for more than one thing, from bass lines to leads to pads. You could always just play bass lines/ leads some of the time and have a synth player cover the other ground.

Yeah the GK-3b just transmits the signal to midi, you still need a controller like the Roland guy (cant think of the name...)

EOTO is great, I saw em at Rothbury this year and I'm trying to catch em next time they're around. Missed the WCL show because it was 21+ :/ I saw Telepath at All Good in 08 and they're bass player is a big inspiration of mine. Never saw the New Deal because their last show in the area was 21+ but I have a couple SBD's of theirs and the bass player is killin. I'll make sure to check out The Malah, haven't heard of them.

Cool stuff on the myspace, if you guys are playing around here I'll be sure to make it out. I love how Philly is the heart of this scene right now, a ton of cool people coming together to make some amazing music

[tekkentool]

Originally Posted by wolffman

the gk-3b is only a pickup/controller right? i would need something else too?

The Gk-3b goes down to a little box, it will most likely come with it. then it sends out a plain midi cable. good thing is it's multitimbral. you can set up a different sound for each string if you have a multitimbral synth.

[Bskillz]

Hello - just saw lotus and the Egg last night. The bassist for the Egg actually plays a synth machine - like a mircokorg or something for a lot of the bass lines. I have used different pedals but haven't even come close to that super wet round roll-off that Jesse Miller gets from the band lotus. I have always wanted an Akai Deep Impact (its on Brownstein's pedal board) but can't find one. So, I guess my question to add to this thread is what is the simple solution get these types of sounds for under $300?

[bigblondeafro87]

^^I think you're looking for a Moog LPF, do you have any examples of what your looking for?